agent_lead 0 #1 December 26, 2005 i see alot of experianced skydivers doing this on their way into landing right before flaring... what does this technique achieve? should i be doing this?-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #2 December 26, 2005 i make small corrections as i land, for such things as crosswind conditions. however, as i remember my training, students are taught to get on a final approach and only flare upon landing. until you are know how much you can manipulate the toggles, just stick to getting the flare down. too much of the wrong type of a toggle input and you can really get hurt. practice canopy manuvers above your hard deck, or above 2000 feet. cheers! ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #3 December 26, 2005 To take advantage of the last bit of lift left in the canopy flight in order to slow forward momentum. It's called finishing your flare. As you land faster and faster you will find that you can't run as fast as your canopy flies sometimes. The longer you keep the canopy flying above the ground, the more groundspeed you will lose. If you flare correctly though you should be able to finish the flare as smoothly as you enter it, eliminating the need to "stab" the toggles. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 December 26, 2005 Pumping the brakes - after you flare too high - is done to amuse yourself until impact. Pumping or fluttering or flapping the toggles vastly increases drag, and reduces lift (aka. flare power) because it ruins the smooth airflow over the top skin of your canopy. Turbulent airflow creates lots of drag, but no lift. When you remember that most of a canopy's lift comes from the top skin, you will realize how silly this practice is. Pumping the brakes is usually a sign of poor technique or nervousness or not really knowing what they are doing. Far wiser - if you realized that you started to flare too early - is to pause, wait until the correct height, then finish your flare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #5 December 26, 2005 I read the question wrong.. sorry. Rob's right... pumping the breaks before going into a landing flare is probably something someone is doing because they just turned low and scared the shit out of themselves, or they are flaring to high and then letting up and flaring again. How experienced do you mean by experienced? TI's sometimes flare and then let up to give the canopy a bit of a forward surge for landing. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #6 December 26, 2005 QuotePumping the brakes - after you flare too high - is done to amuse yourself until impact. I think Brian Germain, quoting John LeBlanc, called it 'masturbatory flaring'. (skydiveradio.com:show #18) ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #7 December 26, 2005 when i say experianced i mean pretty much every TI i ever saw land with a passenger... some have military training..others over 5000 jumps.. i just thought it looked funny when watching it and i didnt really see any effect to it..i was just wondering..it popped into my head for some reason this morning while i was practicing EP's bored at home..-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougiefresh 0 #8 December 26, 2005 Tandem landings are different than what you and I do. It's called a flare surge and it's used, I believe, to gain speed before landing so that the flare is nice and strong. TIs feel free to correct me.Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #9 December 26, 2005 yeah you know what i dont think i ever saw anyone other then a TI doing it... its all starting to make sense now...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 December 26, 2005 Quotei see alot of experianced skydivers doing this on their way into landing right before flaring... Then they really are not that "experienced" when it comes to canopy flight. It scrubs off speed and reduces the over all effectiveness of the flare for landing. Avoid picking up the habit.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #11 December 27, 2005 It would be helpful if you would confirm exactly what you mean. Is it pumping during the last bit of flight right near the ground, or a flare executed up high, then a surge to full flight before the actual landing flare?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #12 December 27, 2005 at about 12-8 feet pump repeatedly...then flare..-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #13 December 27, 2005 You wouldn't be referring to our old TM now would you? For some reason these people are part of the POPS club, have so many faded nasty colors on their canopy, and COMPLETELY ignore the safety breifings about not landing in the swoop lane. Every fucking time. The good news is, by about 1-2 pm, they are either wore out, or their arthritus medication stopped working. Maybe it is because of all the knee trauma they get from that bitchen landing they get every time. Who says 7-cells aren't cool. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #14 December 27, 2005 QuoteYou wouldn't be referring to our old TM now would you? For some reason these people are part of the POPS club, have so many faded nasty colors on their canopy, and COMPLETELY ignore the safety breifings about not landing in the swoop lane. Every fucking time. The good news is, by about 1-2 pm, they are either wore out, or their arthritus medication stopped working. Maybe it is because of all the knee trauma they get from that bitchen landing they get every time. Who says 7-cells aren't cool. QuoteHome DZ: No home dropzone entered. Number of Jumps: 600 Years in Sport: 4 Disciplines of Choice: Freeflying (550 jumps) Swooping (300 jumps) Photographer: Yes can't WAIT till i see ya in a swoop comp bro! MY ASS HURTS MY KNEE HURTS MY EGO HURTS. welcome to swooping! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #15 December 27, 2005 Bird flare syndrome . We've all done it once or twice. I flared 4 times once and not much happened ... so i flared again.Like doin the Funky Chicken Dance, it's just wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #16 December 27, 2005 Oh, been there done that. Dont believe the profile to the tee. But the reasons that we suffer are completely different indeed. There is a difference between necessity and ignorance. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #17 December 27, 2005 QuotePumping the brakes - after you flare too high - is done to amuse yourself until impact. Agreed, have did the pumping the brakes to amuse myself before impact. Have had the situation of planing out too high going really fast to then have lost the majority of the forward speed which would have been transfered to lift and did the TM pump surge thing along with a PLF in hopes of walking away from such a stupid act. It worked. Would'nt suggest it as a sport jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skykat108 0 #18 December 28, 2005 I think maybe he is talking when folks are swooping.... like I see it on videos of guys swooping, doing quick half flares, and then a turf surfing a bit before they do the full flare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites srsand1960 0 #19 December 28, 2005 What does "Stab" the toggles mean? It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Martini 0 #20 December 28, 2005 *** what is the significance of pumping the brakes right before flare on landing? Quote There is a direct relationship between the speed/depth of brake pumping and the degree of fear involved.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #21 December 28, 2005 QuoteWhat does "Stab" the toggles mean? The toggles are the loop handles of the steering lines. The term is a carry-over from the "olden days", when steering lines had wooden or plastic toggles at the end to grasp; when they converted to loops, the term stuck. The "steering lines" are synonymous with the "brakes" (note the spelling - it's not "breaks"). To stab the toggles means to rapidly pull down the toggles in a sudden motion (think of a "stabbing" motion), instead of in a smooth, dynamic motion. It's sometimes (though not always) associated with a panic maneuver, as in, "he waited too long before flaring, and stabbed the toggles at the last instant..." Here's a link to a glossary of skydiving terms: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=35 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites srsand1960 0 #22 December 28, 2005 Thanks Andy. I will check out the term link you included It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #23 December 28, 2005 This is done to amuse people. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyL 0 #24 December 28, 2005 Swooping, pumping brakes. Check out some vid of the accuracy portion of rescent swoop events. You may see several unusual ways of flaring and flying then what the general skydiver would do or see, including pumping,stabbing,pull one down let the other go, smooth flow, single handed flare, no hands flare,hard turn in flare,and so on. Also check out the PLF landings while your at it. These guys get away with alot of bodily brutality. Very seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #25 December 29, 2005 QuoteVery seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. But boy howdy are their jumpsuits dirty! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Skykat108 0 #18 December 28, 2005 I think maybe he is talking when folks are swooping.... like I see it on videos of guys swooping, doing quick half flares, and then a turf surfing a bit before they do the full flare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srsand1960 0 #19 December 28, 2005 What does "Stab" the toggles mean? It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #20 December 28, 2005 *** what is the significance of pumping the brakes right before flare on landing? Quote There is a direct relationship between the speed/depth of brake pumping and the degree of fear involved.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #21 December 28, 2005 QuoteWhat does "Stab" the toggles mean? The toggles are the loop handles of the steering lines. The term is a carry-over from the "olden days", when steering lines had wooden or plastic toggles at the end to grasp; when they converted to loops, the term stuck. The "steering lines" are synonymous with the "brakes" (note the spelling - it's not "breaks"). To stab the toggles means to rapidly pull down the toggles in a sudden motion (think of a "stabbing" motion), instead of in a smooth, dynamic motion. It's sometimes (though not always) associated with a panic maneuver, as in, "he waited too long before flaring, and stabbed the toggles at the last instant..." Here's a link to a glossary of skydiving terms: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=35 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites srsand1960 0 #22 December 28, 2005 Thanks Andy. I will check out the term link you included It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #23 December 28, 2005 This is done to amuse people. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyL 0 #24 December 28, 2005 Swooping, pumping brakes. Check out some vid of the accuracy portion of rescent swoop events. You may see several unusual ways of flaring and flying then what the general skydiver would do or see, including pumping,stabbing,pull one down let the other go, smooth flow, single handed flare, no hands flare,hard turn in flare,and so on. Also check out the PLF landings while your at it. These guys get away with alot of bodily brutality. Very seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #25 December 29, 2005 QuoteVery seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. But boy howdy are their jumpsuits dirty! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Andy9o8 0 #21 December 28, 2005 QuoteWhat does "Stab" the toggles mean? The toggles are the loop handles of the steering lines. The term is a carry-over from the "olden days", when steering lines had wooden or plastic toggles at the end to grasp; when they converted to loops, the term stuck. The "steering lines" are synonymous with the "brakes" (note the spelling - it's not "breaks"). To stab the toggles means to rapidly pull down the toggles in a sudden motion (think of a "stabbing" motion), instead of in a smooth, dynamic motion. It's sometimes (though not always) associated with a panic maneuver, as in, "he waited too long before flaring, and stabbed the toggles at the last instant..." Here's a link to a glossary of skydiving terms: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=35 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srsand1960 0 #22 December 28, 2005 Thanks Andy. I will check out the term link you included It doesn't matter how anyone else lives their life.... it matter how you live yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #23 December 28, 2005 This is done to amuse people. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #24 December 28, 2005 Swooping, pumping brakes. Check out some vid of the accuracy portion of rescent swoop events. You may see several unusual ways of flaring and flying then what the general skydiver would do or see, including pumping,stabbing,pull one down let the other go, smooth flow, single handed flare, no hands flare,hard turn in flare,and so on. Also check out the PLF landings while your at it. These guys get away with alot of bodily brutality. Very seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #25 December 29, 2005 QuoteVery seldom does a swooper in an event, not walk away. But boy howdy are their jumpsuits dirty! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
