Pull Up found on rig on jump run.

[karlm 0]

I see far to many jumpers both senior and students not checking their gear before, kiting up. And then finding out either at boarding point or while in the aircraft that something is amiss.

On the 5th June a group of jumpers were jumping a CASA in Lesotho, the group was made up of experienced and low time jumpers. On one jump a senior jumper notices that a jumper with about 400 jumps had his pull up cord still in his rig, as he had not taken it out the closure loop.

Lucky for him it was bright green and a snr jumper saw it before exit. When asked about it, the jumper said he had not seen it and did not seem to concerned that he had made such an error. His gear is cyprus equipped.

I finf this very concerning, check your gear before you put it on.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[Unstable 8]

Quote

On one jump a senior jumper notices that a jumper with about 400 jumps had his pull up cord still in his rig..............


When asked about it, the jumper said he had not seen it and did not seem to concerned that he had made such an error

This right here is what concerns me the most about this. Come on people, why do you get on an airplane without a gear check!??!

=========Shaun ==========

[karlm 0]

Yip cannot agree more - The jumper in question has been through the JM course, but was not approved due to his lack of observation and attention to detail, he is also a free fly coach.

Never get onto a aircraft without a proper gear check, either do it yourself and if you forget get a fellow jumper to give you the once over.

I have found chest straps mis routed, AAD's not switched on, alti's not on zero.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[D22369 0]

did not seem to concerned that he had made such an error. His gear is cyprus equipped.
***

Man.......In the last few years I have seen more and more of this attitude. Very distressing to hear someone say shit like that..... A cyprus is very reliable, but is still a mechanical device that can fail........ Gear checks are so easy to have done.... sigh......darwinism at its finest.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Zoter 0]

I just got back from my first visit to a DZ (abroad) where gear checks were not mandatory....(in the UK they are, and you'll get a roasting off your DZ staff if your name is not signed off as checked on the manifest sheet)

Now Im not saying that people who dont get checked are reckless....or that people who do get checked will 'expect' anything wrong to be picked up, so wont make the effort to do a full gear check themselves.

It takes less than 30secs and in my opinion....everyone should have a formal kit check by ANOTHER jumper prior to boarding....as a minimum....everyone makes mistakes once in a while....at least with another pair of eyes looking over you every jump, its less likely to go unnoticed

[shropshire 0]

I also ask for a "pin check" on the jump run ... is this over the top? (Not many other appear to practise this routine)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[anthonylock 0]

I don't think its over the top at all... I have seen experienced teams giving each other pin checks when they get up.. good for people with thousands of jumps....good for me :)

[piisfish 136]

scary one Karl... Well it might have openes with a pull up cord, but certainly not with a packboy...
I only use my packboy, and always have it around my neck.
I also have a cypres, but hope never to have to get it fire.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[weegegirl 2]

I was using a packer at a boogie over memorial day weekend. Went up on a normal freefly - deployed, nice on-heading opening. Went to stow my slider and i see a shiney silver object hanging from my riser. Turns out it was a packing tool that was now all knotted up. It made me laugh, but it could have been a worse situation. I untangled it from my riser and stuck it in my shirt and continued on.

On the ground, the packer was confused when I showed him the tool and blew it off. That kind of ticked me off. I always do thorough checks, which don't include opening my riser covers to make sure there are no packing tools left inside.

Not the same as a pullup left in a closing loop, but just thought I would share my slightly amusing moment. People... you should at least be doing a pin check or two before getting on the airplane.

[Pendragon 1]

I'm similar: I self-check just before exit by feeling whether the flap protecting the pin has opened or not; if so, then I'd get someone to check it. Also check that my hackey hasn't got pushed in either.

Always struck me as being a good idea...

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[Scrumpot 1]

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I also ask for a "pin check" on the jump run ... is this over the top? (Not many other appear to practise this routine)

To me, that depends on who you are asking to give you that pin check ...or if you even know. Now adays, it seems there are just too many people who may not even have a clue as to what they are looking at, due to (in part) the diversity of gear currently out there. In general, if you checked your pin (and bridal routing/flaps closure & security) prior to boarding, and you did not do a whole lot of shifting and bumping around during the climb up, it should not have changed. Is it "over the top" though? ...No, and many people actually do practice this/subscribe to it. As long as I know who it is who is lifting my flaps & feeling around back there knows what he/she is looking at & doing, I am okay with it, AND I HAVE ASKED FOR IT. And then, I'm only going to ask if after boarding, something has happened to give me concern (excess shifting, etc). Your closing loop should not be so loose, and your pin protection so ineffective as to just normally allow your pin attitude to change subsequent to anything short of you tossing your P/C into the windstream. If it is, and it gives you that much concern, then you need to rethink your gear situation 1st IMHO.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[skydivegirl 0]

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Well it might have openes with a pull up cord, but certainly not with a packboy...
I only use my packboy, and always have it around my neck.

I've seen this before. A guy was getting into the plane when we saw a nice shiney packing tool swinging back & forth from his rig.

What's interesting is that he's a rigger.

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[Tonto 1]

I hear you.

But I don't like others fucking with my gear on jump run. You know I've pointed out a few things to other people though.

If my flaps are closed, leave my gear alone.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[diablopilot 2]

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Yip cannot agree more - The jumper in question has been through the JM course, but was not approved due to his lack of observation and attention to detail, he is also a free fly coach.

What DZ would allow this person to be a free fly coach? I want to know so I can avoid the place. At 400 jumps they know just enough to get someone else killed, and maybe themselves in the process.

We had a guy at my old home DZ, a friend of mine with about 400 jumps who, while a good freeflyer, did not have the instructional abilities, or awarenes of how unpredictible a student can be. He took a jumper with about 600 belly jumps for a head down dive. About 6 grand she corked onto her back as he was checking his alti, struck his leg coming close to breaking it, and knocked herself out. Cypres fire.

Coaching students takes far more than just flying ability.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[karlm 0]

The comment on the gear being Cyprus equipped ... was not made by the jumper. I just added that as a additional bit of info.

Tonto is correct, I check my own gear before kiting up, and once on jump run, if I need a check for any reason i get a qualified JM or AFF Inst to do so, they know what they looking for.

I am sure that the pull up might have slipped through the gromets and he cold have had a normal deployment. I would I want to chance that NO WAY.

400 Jumps and a Free Fly Coach .... I would not have made that decision myself, it takes alot to be a coach or AFF I, not everybody is made for it. And as Free Fly has higher speeds and is a more dynamic than FS, one need to be heads up as a coach.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[karlm 0]

Just a correction to clear a few mistakes on the jumper mentioned.

I was not involved with the JM rating decision, and the comment I made is that or hear say. I have no first hand knowledge of the reasons.

Thanks to the former CI for clearing that up for me.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[billvon 2,467]

> I also ask for a "pin check" on the jump run ... is this over the top?

Not as long as you do it far before the door opens. A pin check while the door open can be dangerous; imagine a guy who tugs at your flap and manages to pop the pin while the door is open. Also, a pin check a few seconds _before_ the door open is of questionable utility - you have to check your gear and give yourself enough time to fix the problem before the door opens.

[d604 0]

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scary one Karl... Well it might have openes with a pull up cord, but certainly not with a packboy...

Just did a little ground test on my rig (Sidewinder, with closing loop attached to bottom flap).

It took some work to get the bag out of the container; the pin popped easily enough, but now there is a 2 foot pull up cord that has to go through 3 other flaps until the bag is free. Couldn't use my scale (arms aren't long enough) but I had the whole rig off the floor and was shacking it good until it worked it's way loose.

I would imagine that a Vector or Javelin with the closing loop going through 4 flaps would be even harder. Maybe latter today when I have a vector or javelin out I'll give it a try.

BTW. Had to re-close my rig twice to get the pull up cord in there, the first go I pulled it out automatically D'oh.

BTW2. The pull up cord was a typically 1" pull up that has closed a few rigs.

Sean

CSPA ratings C1, C2, IA, IB, QE, RA, and EJR

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Come on people, why do you get on an airplane without a gear check!??!

Because I don't want a premature deployment while going 140-180 MPH with people on top of me and such an event was much more likely when my bottom flap kept being open in freefall after a pin-check.

I'll check myself by feel for flap closure, bridle routing, and pilot chute stowage.

[damion75 0]

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I also ask for a "pin check" on the jump run ... is this over the top? (Not many other appear to practise this routine)

Far from being over the top, I found out last month from one of the Netheravon instructors that it is a mandatory requirement in the BPA ops manual!

I havent checked that - but he is pretty experienced and I am inclined to believe him. I get it done every time.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[skr 1]

> I see far to many jumpers both senior and students not checking their gear before, kiting up.

I have sometimes wondered if this reflects training
or maybe personality traits or maybe just a phase
someone is going through.

I have always been meticulous and anal about my
gear and try to instill that in the new jumpers I'm around.

But I've seen a lot of incredible casualness over the
years.

Just a couple weeks ago during a Casa boogie I saw
a guy with several hundred jumps chuting up and I
thought something looked funny.

I walked around behind him and neither of his side
flaps were done. The top and bottom were done and
the pilot chute was stowed but both side flaps were
loose.

He probably had a word with the packer when he
got down but I'll bet he checks his gear now :-) :-)

Skr

[karlm 0]

The jumper who made this error, is a very compitent flyer, I have had many good qulality FS skydives with him, and have seen foootage of his Freefly skills, which I would say ar good. He is one of those with natural talent.

He just made an error and was lucky that a fellow jumper was there to help out. I am sure he checks his gear 100% now.

The DZ that he calls home, is a very pro-active DZ, and the Instructor Body spends alot of time and effort in improving safety and educating jumpers on all aspects of the sport. We have regular articles posted on safety and gear. We hold seminars and coaching clinics for jumpers.

I think it is wrong to judge somebodies ability by their jump numbers or the ratings they hold, if they are safe and work with in the system (which this jumper does) then it's OK as far as I am concerned.

My original post was intended to highlight a gear check issue I have not seen before. We all ahve stories of chest straps, leg straps etc. This was a new one for me.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I think it is wrong to judge somebodies ability by their jump numbers or the ratings they hold, if they are safe and work with in the system (which this jumper does) then it's OK as far as I am concerned.

So you would suggest that someone who has the skills but not the rating be an AFF instructor?

t 400 jumps most skydivers know just enought to get out of their own way. If he is exceptional than maybe he could be qualified to advise otheres on some of the very basic aspects of freeflying, but it sure sounds like his attention to detail is lacking.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[3ringheathen 0]

I've long found it funny that skydivers as a group aren't particularly motivated to change their habits if the only benefit is increased safety.
What most of us seem to be motivated by is fear of ridicule.

So mock the guy. Embarass him. That's really what seems to work the best.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[D22369 0]

So mock the guy. Embarass him. That's really what seems to work the best***

I disagree, A good serious chat given by the DZO or S&TA is probably a better method. He already knows he screwed up, humiliating someone doesnt always put them in a receptive mood to learn from anything.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.