Switching From Rip to Throw-out

[dresherr 0]

This last Sunday I jumped on a throw out for my fourth time I think. I Pulled at about 4,800 and nothing happened. I was still in freefall. I hesitated for awhile ( Aweful thing to do ) then cutaway and pulled my reserve. After the adrenaline wore off I thought for a sec..... Hey I was jumping a throw out and never threw it out!!!! "That small chute did look different after I pulled," I thought.

Stupid Stupid Stupid me. When I landed and everyone at CMS asked me what happened I felt so stupid. I was in total denial that I had done something wrong till I thought about it on the way home. Thanks CMS for not rubbing it in.

Darren- It wasn't your pack job, bud. Just dumb ole me.

Much props to everyone at Central Michigan for being there and making sure I was alright.

Just a quick question too... Has anyone else ever done this?

- Richy

[sundevil777 94]

Some will say it is a bad habit to get into, but I like to see the bag lift off my back. I then know if I have a horseshoe or PC in tow, and I get my head/shoulders back square long before it matters.

edit - this habit may make it natural/more obvious to your brain to let it go.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[AggieDave 6]

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Just a quick question too... Has anyone else ever done this?

No, but I've done the opposite, tossed a rip cord.

If you're through the transition then it'll be easy, just pound it into your head that you have to let go. Think of it as a rattle snake in your back pocket, you must get rid of it.

If you're going back and forth on systems then its going to take a lot of concentration, infact, I highly recommend NOT doing that if possible.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bigway 4]

no disrespect to you dude, i am glad you are okay though, even after a fast reserve opening but dude, that was the funniest thing i had read in a long time. i got to ask, what did you pull??
all the best to you, please dont flame me for finding this funny but i can't help it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Zenister 0]

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Just a quick question too... Has anyone else ever done this?

No, but I've done the opposite, tossed a rip cord.

i tossed 2 then had another 'step' added "place cord in jumpsuit".... so the first part of my training when switching to BOC went "DONT stick this one in your jumpsuit"...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[thelem 0]

I'm assuming you mean throwaway (throwout/pinpull is where you have a normal pilot chute packed inside the container)

I'm still trying to work out what happened on your jump though. You pulled the toggle and held on to it, nothing happened. Then you went for your handles, but surely you were still holding your pilot chute at this point, why didn't that stop you from pulling your cutaway?

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

LOL! A friend of mine pulled and stuck the pilot chute in his jump suit! He figured it out fairly
quickly

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"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[Fast 0]

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I'm assuming you mean throwaway (throwout/pinpull is where you have a normal pilot chute packed inside the container)

No, he was jumping a throwout, which is not the same thing as a pullout. Anyways...


Sure, it was a slip in thinking. 1. Your alive... yay for that. 2. I have seen someone who was switching from rip-cord to throwout cut away because they forgot to let go.

Basic flow is... Wave.. Pull (hold it because you think its a ripcord)... count... figure your having a high speed mal... reach for cutaway... Then you either realize its a throwout let go and end up on a main or cutaway anyways because you don't realize you let go of the PC and end up pulling your reserve.


Don't feel bad your not the only one who has done it. (As I witnessed)



My first jump on a throwout after being on ripcord (never dropped one) I waited about 4 seconds wondering wtf was up before I remembered to let go. Thats why the instructors around me have people pulling high on the first jump after the switch. Like dave said, its bad to switch back and forth because it's easy to forget what your jumping. By us, as a student, once you switch you can't jump the ripcord rigs anymore (which coincedentally will be all gone soon)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[packerboy 3]

If you were having a high speed mal on a ripcord system, would you drop the ripcord before going to handles? What is the proper procedure trained for this?

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[dnewcomer 0]

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This last Sunday I jumped on a throw out for my fourth time I think. I Pulled at about 4,800 and nothing happened.......

I was trial jumping a rig I considered buying for water jumps. My regular rigs all have BOC PC, but water rig had a leg strap PC bag. I thought about it 100 times on ride up and practiced reaching for leg bag to remind myself, but still reached for BOC at pull time. (Duh!) Took me a couple of seconds to remember..........."leg strap PC." I had plenty of time to get PC out. I can still remember the momentary confusion when I reached for the BOC and nothing was there.

The reason these things happen is because your brain is almost working instinctively in FF.....probably even more so if you have >500 jumps. Your body is running like a plane on "autopilot" if everything is happening in the usual way.

Some people spent to last few seconds of their life reaching for a deployment handle that wasn't there, then pulled silver too late.

LESSON: Always plan to open a little higher when jumping a rig with different deployment system than you're accustomed to. Give yourself plenty of altitude/time to figure it out. COROLLARY: If you're jumping any rig for the first time, plan to open a little higher to give yourself extra time to deal with the unforeseen.

D--

[nael 0]

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If you were having a high speed mal on a ripcord system, would you drop the ripcord before going to handles? What is the proper procedure trained for this?

Yeah, we're taught to discard the ripcord, and then go for the cutaway/reserve handle.

I did my conversions course yesterday - my first jumps on the TAS will be next weekend. I'm a little nervous, I like having the ripcord where I can see it!!

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[riggerrob 558]

Hee!
Hee!
I went through this process yesterday with a student visiting from Switzerland. She had 13 jumps, all with a main ripcord.
We practiced pulling BOC throw-out for a half hour on the ground before jumping out of the King Air (new airplane to her, new DZ, etc.) She did a couple of good practice pulls at the top of the skydive, and waved off at 4,000, but then reached for the front of her hip junction. I had to adjust her hand position.
Then she pulled fine and flew a decent landing pattern.
Afterwards she explained to me that she automatically reached for the front of her hip because that is where her main ripcord used to be.
Primacy - when she got scared, she reverted to the first deployment method she was taught. It takes hours and hundreds of practice pulls to change deeply ingrained skills.

If any wag asks why I did not give her a main ripcord: main ripcords disappeared from Canadian DZs 20 years ago!

[billvon 2,434]

>Primacy - when she got scared, she reverted to the first deployment method she was taught.

I had a new jumper show up from Europe somewhere. She was off student status and had about 30 jumps. She wanted to rent gear; I asked her if she wanted a ripcord or hand deploy. She said she wanted hand deploy.

I gave her a gear check and asked her to pantomine the pull and a cutaway/reserve procedure. She did fine. She jumped, came in to pull the PC, then held onto it. She noticed nothing was deploying, let go of the PC, and pulled the reserve just as the main was opening. She landed safely under two canopies.

When I asked her about it later, she said she'd never actually jumped a hand deploy, but had read about it in the SIM as preparation for coming to the US. And, at the time (1996 or so) the SIM did not explicitly say that you had to let go of the PC after you have pulled it. Never thought to ask her if she had actually jumped one.

[firstime 0]

we are taught muscle memory. I am sure it has
saved alot of asses but one has to think before
jumping something different. I can assure you of this
" this post will go right into my EP memory"

[riggerrob 558]

Update on our visiting student from Switzerland.

Sunday she did three more jumps with BOC. She went up with another PFF instructor and waved off at a reasonable altitude, pulled her pilot chute out to arm's length and held on! She paused, said "oh dummy" and released it for a normal opening.
We had a chuckle over that.
She made two more jumps with a coach. Her landings are steadily improving and she is making friends on the DZ.

[dresherr 0]

Thank you all for your input. Since then I have had 10 jumps with throw-out and all have been successful. That one mistake scared me but taught me a lesson I, hopefully, will never forget. I think from now on I will always jump a throw out.

[DontPanic 0]

Excellent, it looks like I have something fun to look forward to.
I've done all seven of my freefalls on ripcord deployment. On my first freefall, that ripcord popped out of my hand before I could even think about holding on to it. Now I hold on to the ripcord without even thinking about it.

Consequently, my instructor is beginning to think it's time to switch me over to throwout deployment.

This should be good for some bonus adrenaline when I make the switch.