karenmeal 0 #26 August 16, 2006 As a packer.. If your canopy malfunctions and it can be determined that I messed up, atleast one free packjob. But... considering that a canopy will always be deployed into turbulent air.. a lot of crap can happen that isn't the packer's fault. I've had one experienced jumper have a mal on one of my packjobs. (Line twists on a high-performance, highly loaded canopy with a tendency to bow-tie.) After 15-20,000 pack jobs, I really doubt that I did something different on that particular one that caused a malfunction. I still got paid for that packjob, but it was that jumper's choice. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #27 August 16, 2006 Quote As a packer.. If your canopy malfunctions and it can be determined that I messed up, atleast one free packjob. Ditto... and if it was absolutely something I screwed up, like not cocking a pilot chute or packing a walkthrough, I'd pay for the reserve repack too. But only if it was something obviously my mistake. I care a lot about keeping everyone's asses' safe up there. It's lousy for my packing career if I don't provide consistently good openings, so do my best on every one of them. I beat myself up if I hear of less than ideal openings, I can't imagine how I'd feel if someone had to chop one of my pack jobs. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #28 August 16, 2006 QuoteI'd be bummed. Probably drink a lot & be a real asshole to get along with for days on end. An honest answer!If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #29 August 16, 2006 >Over this past weekend some things happened that made me think, if you hired a packer and had a malfunction as a result of the pack job and lost my main what would I do? Curious on your thoughts..... Um.... maybe accept responsability for 1> putting the rig on and everything else that happens after that/because of that just a thought..... g Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #30 August 16, 2006 Looks like 2 people voted to have the packer pay for the main. I'd like to hear those person's thoughts on the matter. I did a pack job once that opened so hard it broke two lines... I felt like a real asshole for quite a while about it. Then I found out that PD had f'd up when they installed the lines. Shit happens... think that PD was going to pay me for that packjob? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
napalmboy 0 #31 August 16, 2006 Having actually just lost a main (coming up on 2 weeks and no sign of it), I'm trying to be pragmatic about it. I kind of feel that in a sport like this one, you pay your money and take your chances. Better to lose a canopy than your life, and these things we're jumping have big, shiny warning labels informing us that even if everything was made and packed perfectly, stuff can still go wrong anyway and kill us in the process. We can't really expect packers to be responsible for malfunctions, especially when malfunctions can be caused by random chance. As for my lost main, I was the packer at (probable) fault, so I suppose in this particular case I'm holding the packer responsible for the cost of my main. In general, though, I wouldn't.Well, the door was open... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattmais 0 #32 August 16, 2006 id make my wife pay for a new main and aslo for the bottle for the rigger! You dont expect me to pay, do u? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #33 August 17, 2006 How about this ! You pack it,it functions and gets destroyed landing over a barb wired fence,,how is that diff ? Quit playing bigshot and take pride and pack it your self !! Don't be a pussy,,,smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #34 August 17, 2006 I agree, you are spot on....smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anabatic 0 #35 August 17, 2006 you cant bitch about mals if you pay someone else to pack your shit~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #36 August 17, 2006 suck it up... you could have packed yourself...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #37 August 17, 2006 ROFLMFAO. Yeah right. SO if you take your car in to get new tires and the fucker falls off when you get on the free way you shouldn't be pissed cuz you only paid to put it on not to fucking stay on...My packers make more per hour then I do. I know I pay my packers 6-7 per pack job and it takes them less then 10 minutes to pack my rig so thats nearly 40 fucking dollars an hour. Yeah for that I expect the shit to be done right. How many of you make that an hour? I do not get this mentallity that it is ok to make $40 per hour and NOT be expected to do it right..WTF is up with that? MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #38 August 18, 2006 QuoteYeah for that I expect the shit to be done right. Just a rough guess but I would say 75% or more of malfuctions are caused by the jumper and not the pack job. How are you going to determine that it was the pack job and not the jumper? If you pack for yourself he wouldn't make $40 an hour off of you.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #39 August 18, 2006 QuoteMy first, and so far only mal on my sport rig was packed by a packer, it opened so hard that 2 lines broke. Not only did she pay for the reserve repack, she offered to pay for the repair of the lines that broke. Wow, that's cool. Years ago, a guy named Mike packed my main (I didn't want him to) while I was up doing a tandem. I then grabbed my rig and went up again. Blam! Six broken lines, chop, land pissed off as hell. But I sucked it up and just dug in my pocket. I didn't pay him for the pack job, though. I thought Vskydiver was going to kick his ass, though. Another time a new packer gave me a total. My fault for not checking the pullout routing completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #40 August 18, 2006 QuoteROFLMFAO. Yeah right. SO if you take your car in to get new tires and the fucker falls off when you get on the free way you shouldn't be pissed cuz you only paid to put it on not to fucking stay on... Funny analogy, but lugnuts and parachutes are two different things. I can guarantee my wheels will stay on if I do my job right, but any parachute can malfunction, no matter how well packed. Due to that fact, it's convention in our sport that you pay for the pack job, not the opening. Now if a packer is really doing a lot of crap work, his customers should vote with their feet and use another concession. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #41 August 18, 2006 Quote...and had a malfunction as a result of the pack job and lost my main what would I do? *** Kick myself in the ass for not being smart enough to look for it in the air and follow it down. DINGDINGDING - we have a winner The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #42 August 18, 2006 My comments are in regards to the people that think packers are 1. underpaid and 2. that you shouldn't expect anyting other then them putting it into the bag. i.e. your paying for putting it in the bag not the opening. As I stated early in this thread I wouldn't blame a packer for a Mal unless it was obvious but when a packer stuffs my shit in the bag and I get a slammer (Sabre 1) I will talk with them or like last weekend when the same kid that packed my first line over packed a second that concerns me. Dismissing it as well you only paid for the pack job not the opening is bull shit. At that hourly rate you are being paid as a Highly Trained proffessional ACT/PERFOM Like one.. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #43 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf you pack for yourself he wouldn't make $40 an hour off of you. I have no Problem with them making that money just as I have no problem paying to have someone else change the oil in my car. I don't enjoy it and see no reason to do it when there is someone trained and willing to do it. If the price was unreasoable or the service was unavailable/unacceptable then obviously I will handle it myself but I find the price a win-win for both parties. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #44 August 18, 2006 QuoteAnother time a new packer gave me a total. My fault for not checking the pullout routing completely. Yeah its not like you are going to kick that packers ass for that one...maybe cut his allowance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #45 August 19, 2006 QuoteMy comments are in regards to the people that think packers are 1. underpaid and 2. that you shouldn't expect anyting other then them putting it into the bag. i.e. your paying for putting it in the bag not the opening. As I stated early in this thread I wouldn't blame a packer for a Mal unless it was obvious but when a packer stuffs my shit in the bag and I get a slammer (Sabre 1) I will talk with them or like last weekend when the same kid that packed my first line over packed a second that concerns me. Dismissing it as well you only paid for the pack job not the opening is bull shit. At that hourly rate you are being paid as a Highly Trained proffessional ACT/PERFOM Like one.. Packing is not paid on an hourly rate, it's paid on a per job rate. I pay my barber 14 dollars to shave my head, which is 5 minutes of work. Does that mean barbers make 168 dollars an hour? Forgive me if I'm incorrect in this assumption, but if you're like most skydivers, you only come to the dropzone on a good weather weekend. So you really only see what packers do when it's actually busy. Yes, on a busy day a packer can average 40 dollars an hour, or even more, but you don't see what they do when the weather is bad, or there is no work, because they do NOTHING and make no money. For every day that's actually busy, there are another 3 or 4 or sometimes even 5 or 6 that are a waste. When I was a packer at a full time turbine dz, my average income was 270 dollars a week. It's really hard to say "average" though, since most of the time it's more like 150-200 dollars a week, and then a few boogie weekends throw off the numbers. That's not much better than what I could make at McDonalds. I wouldn't really say I was "underpaid" but consider on the few busy days I made 200-300 dollars packing, the vidiots were making 800+, and they actually get to skydive. So it does seem like that to some people. I can go on and on but I won't here, if you're curious about what being a packer is actually like, you can PM me, or you could even try it yourself, that is unless you're like most people and think it's below you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #46 August 19, 2006 Quote Yeah its not like you are going to kick that packers ass for that one...maybe cut his allowance No shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #47 August 19, 2006 Quote but when a packer stuffs my shit in the bag and I get a slammer (Sabre 1) I will talk with them or like last weekend when the same kid that packed my first line over packed a second that concerns me. Like I said, time to vote with your feet. I can't think of any packers at my DZ currently that I wouldn't use, but there have been some in the past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #48 August 19, 2006 QuoteI will talk with them or like last weekend when the same kid that packed my first line over packed a second that concerns me. First time shame on him, second time shame on you.In 30 years of jumping I have never had a line over.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #49 August 19, 2006 In 30 years of jumping I have never had a line over. *** I always pack for myself, in 30 years on jumping I've had two...but then again you've SEEN the way I pack! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #50 August 19, 2006 QuoteIn 30 years of jumping I have never had a line over. *** I always pack for myself, in 30 years on jumping I've had two...but then again you've SEEN the way I pack! How many have you had on a ram air canopy? And you don't pack you stuff!My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
