starting right

[nosferatu87 0]

So i'm just about to get my A license. I've been informed that it would be in my best interest to get about 100 jumps on my belly before i start trying any freeflying. Just so I can fly better in general. I have no problem with this. I might try some sitflys here and there but I believe in my instructors when they say that's what's best for me. My only question is, what do I do on those jumps. I'm one of very few beggining jumpers at my dz and planes really just go up when there are tandems. I know that less than 100 jumps usually rules me out of 4-ways, i know this, i'm fine with it. But I can't just do 75 tracking dives... Anybody have any suggestions on what i should practice in the air?

[tdog 0]

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I know that less than 100 jumps usually rules me out of 4-ways

I call Bull Sh&^ on that one! On my 38th jump we got 12 legitimate points on a 4 way skydive. Picture attached. Yes I had a coach and tunnel time - however - don't think you can't do it as I have jumped with others who did not have coaching and were able to do well in 4way well before 100 jumps... In fact, the CSL puts together scrambles every year designed to get people with 50 jumps participating in 4way!


I also call Bull Sh&^ to the "no freefly before".... Yes - there is a "danger" of never getting good on your belly if you don't spend time on your belly - but a few freeflies here and there will give you increased range of awareness/motion/skills - that will apply to all skydiving.

You need to know the "dangers" of freefly and how to orient yourself so you don't backslide into other jumpers, but I would say BE WELL ROUNDED - try some easy freefly - try some RW - try some tracking - try some high pulls and play with your canopy - try some no-contact CRW, or Legit CRW with a coach... One of the most fun skydives I did this year was "Rock Paper Scissors." It required skill to stay near someone while throwing the symbols....

If you can find the money - go to Perris or Eloy and attend a 4way camp (1 hour of tunnel time + 24 jumps).... You will come back ready for anything.

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[DSE 3]

One piece of advice I can give you:
Don't jump by yourself much. You can develop bad habits. I wasted a lot of jumps early on, trying to do different things and teach myself. Stupid move on my part. I've had to spend a fair amount of time trying to unlearn some ingrained habits due to jumping without a relative point. For a while there, I couldn't determine whether it was me flying all over the sky, or the people I started jumping with (it was me).
Try to find someone that can jump with you, maybe even a few coached jumps. Having some of those solo fun jumps is great, but you'll learn so much more by having even only one person relevant to you.
As mentioned in the other post, I was on a couple of four ways, and one six way before I had even 30 jumps. I was by far the least experienced, but had I been smarter, I'd have tried to spend more time in the air with others instead of by myself.

[AFFI 0]

I live between Houston and Dallas - I drive a 5 hour round trip every weekend to go to Skydive Spaceland http://www.skydivespaceland.com/. There are drop zones closer but the reasons I decide to drive that far are simple.

The airplanes are very well maintained because the owner does not lease them, he owns the entire fleet (3 Otters, 1 Caravan and 2 Cessna), he is also an avid aviator and has high standards for the pilots he hires. The runway is 3400 feet paved - clean facilities and bunkroom, plenty of indoor air conditioned packing space. Their airpark is also private and was designed exclusively for skydiving on 130 acres of land surrounded by fields to land in when landing off and they are starting a student flying training program there soon as well – all this plus the best student training program around with very good rental/student gear.

There are a lot of sport jumpers there eager to skydive with newcomers, loads fly a lot due to the fun jumper presence. National champion freeflyers and belly flyers are there for all levels of coaching and the vibes amongst the jumpers there is quite comfortable.

Plan a weekend to come on out, you will find it worth the drive.
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AggieDave 6]

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I know that less than 100 jumps usually rules me out of 4-ways, i know this

Who the F told you that at our DZ? You know me, you know my wife, you know Mark, Nick, Tim, Jason...the list continues. We'd all love to do RW jumps with you. Morgan LOVES rw and wants nothing more then to do 4-way at the DZ. Same with a lot of other jumpers at the DZ. Just because I'm pretty focuses on canopy flight doesn't mean I won't go do some RW with you or anyone else that wants to for that matter.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bigdad510 1]

I know that less than 100 jumps usually rules me out of 4-ways, i know this, i'm fine with it.

[billvon 2,400]

>Anybody have any suggestions on what i should practice in the air?

2-ways. If they work out, 3 and 4 ways. There's no rule that says you can't do 2 to 4 ways with less than 100 jumps. The speed you progress is up to you. Don't feel like you have to jump alone, and also don't feel like you have to be doing 4-way at any point. Just talk to people and do what you feel good about doing.

[shermanator 3]

but then.. 75 tracking dives.. you will be ready to talk to a BMI and stick a nice wing on yourself in no time!

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[DougH 270]

If you and the people your jumping with can track well, and safely skydive together, and then get proper separation then why not???

Since I have had my A license I have tried everything from some really awesome two ways, to some ten ways that never quite worked. Even if we don't turn points we get well away from each other.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[RandomLemming 0]

Damn you guys are lucky! I'm still not able to jump with other people until I spend another trip in Spain getting my FS1. I really do think the USPA wins on this particular point.

I just _know_ I'm developing bad habits right now, but I can't jump with other people yet :(

[78RATS 0]

You do 100 belly jumps....you waste 100 jump tickets.

FREEFLY.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[iamsam 0]

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I'm still not able to jump with other people until I spend another trip in Spain getting my FS1.

That's not strictly true, you just need to find one or more people who do have FS1 who'll jump with you. I don't have many more jumps than you but have done a 4-way, 3-ways and lots of 2-ways. If you're on a load doing a solo and there's others doing the same who have FS1, ask them if they want to do a 2-way.

I'm sure you'd get a positve repsonse, some people think jumping alone is like masturbation.

I say whats wrong with masturbation?!?!

edited to add: Its sex with someone you love

but what do I know

[porpoishead 5]

dang bro Y ????? as others have posted maybe you need go to another DZ, you'll thank yourself later. I moved on after my AFF from the tandem factory DZ that I started at, basicly once we were cleared to self supervise we were wothless. only way we got a slot was if there was a tandem video, or if real lucky a single instructor AFF then ther was two slots and you might get a 2-way if some other fool actually was there sitting around all day. it went so far one day that 4 of us were sitting around, about 1 hour before next tandem, blue skies beautiful weather plane just parked out in front the hanger, we asked " there is 4 of us why not put up a load" we were told " that even with 4 fun jumpers that they could barely cover fuel and it was'nt worth it" mind you that these were $22 slots to 10,000ft real shitty feeling!!

well since then now that we jump at a real cool as fuk dropzone, in my big wopin 42 jump count I have :

14 2-ways

6 3-ways two with 1 hyb. piece

4 4-ways one with rodeo exit

and too much fun, great coaching/mentoring, lots of new friends and people to jump with, awesome vibes, awesome jumpship, 14,000ft in about 10min $22, tons of expierienced jumpers, everybody is like family, and they give a shit about you and/or to jump with you, oh did I mention sooooo mmmuch fun and good times.

so if you really want to jump there are beter places out there, and yes believe in your instructors, but most importantly believe in yourself, and move on, so your jump #,s , expierience, and fun factor dont suffer.

blue skies my friend

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[llkenziell 0]

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I know that less than 100 jumps usually rules me out of 4-ways

I did a 4-way for my graduation jump right b4 I got my A license (25th jump) =) granted it was with people with LOTS of jumps.... but still I don't think having under 100 jumps rules you out of 4-ways as long as ya'll are safe

"Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets

-Love Life-

[AggieDave 6]

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dang bro Y ????? as others have posted maybe you need go to another DZ, you'll thank yourself later.

Maybe, maybe not. He jumps at my DZ and we have a decent number of people that want to do RW and would like to do RW with others, newbies, whom ever. he just doesn't ask. We see him manifest for a load and ask "what are you doing?" "Tracking." "Ok." All he has to do is ask and he'd have people to do 2-ways, 3-ways and 4-ways with.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MagicGuy 0]

Yeah, since I've had my A license all I've been doing is jumping with 3 ways, 4 ways, and a few larger number formations. It's nice to jump with experienced RW jumpers. They will teach you some basic stuff and get a feeling of what your skills are like. After that, people will probably start coming to you asking if you want to make some RW jumps.

I agree about not making a bunch of solos. I also developed some bad habits in doing this. Jumping with at least one other person is always a plus. You will learn something on every jump, and it's also a lot more fun jumping with someone else.

Good luck!

[porpoishead 5]

I appologize dave if you took anything I posted as a poke at your DZ. that was certainly not my intention.

kinda sounds like the OP is in need of some encouragement, and or guidance, something that can be found at a DZ with alot of upjumpers,coaches instructors,etc. not to say he's not getting that where he's at. just giving my opinion, as it helped me and my boys greatly to be at the DZ were at now. not at a tandem factory type DZ where youre good as gold (literally) while youre paying high dollar for tandem and AFF, then when you clear youre a piece of shit, not to be bothered with. cause youre not worth the time or effort cause everybody's got a job to do.

surely dave with your numbers and expirience you know that these types of DZ's are out there.

fuk em and all the DZ's just like em. I fully understand that some places start out with a small plane and work towards the goal of larger aircraft, and tandems and AFF etc. are the means to get there, but like the saying goes "be careful who you step on"

were not timid on the ground, in the plane, or in frefall at OUR dropzone, all safety cosidered, thats how we roll. if thats how yall do it, then so be it.........

blue skies

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[AggieDave 6]

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I appologize dave if you took anything I posted as a poke at your DZ. that was certainly not my intention.

Don't worry about that, I by no means took that from your post.

You just happened to have been the last person to say that when I responded and I wanted to make the point that its not always the DZ. Sometimes low time jumpers have problems speaking up and asking those around them to do jumps. I can understand that. Of course, I haven't done a very good job of doing jumps with low timers lately, I have limited time at the DZ and I'm training hard for the swoop comp season. Then with the tandems taking up my limited training time, I've been on very few "regular" jumps. Its all been altitude clear and pulls and tandems.

The next weekend the DZ is open is the 5th of Jan, so if Jacob is out there I'll definately make sure he gets on some fun RW loads. Once he has access to or owns FF safe gear, then we can go do FF loads if he wishes.
If anything this thread has woken me up a bit and showed that I've been focusing my jumps too much on me and I need to get back into my long time habit of jumping with low time jumpers. Not just when they ask, but going out of my way to make them get on fun loads with myself or other jumpers. That and I can't depend on other jumpers to organize themselves for these kinds of loads, that even if I'm not on the load with them, I need to help them organize together and get some jumps together.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[azdiver 0]

i did a 4 way head down flower for my 26 jump and been in 15 way jumps a number of time, and im still under a hundred jumps

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[porpoishead 5]

right on dave, thats good shit to hear. us low timers have alot to gain from guys like yourself, not to mention have a blast doing it.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[nosferatu87 0]

sorry Dave, i just feel bad asking to get in on stuff when i know you guys are training for comps and since I'm one of very few students that comes out I try to stay out of the way a bit. I suppose i should be less timid. but hey, at least i've started paying up on beer. That make up for anything? :P

[AMax 0]

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You do 100 belly jumps....you waste 100 jump tickets.

FREEFLY.

Oh, don't listen to them freeflyers ... they don't even know how to track

[AggieDave 6]

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i just feel bad asking to get in on stuff when i know you guys are training for comps

Don't worry about it. Ask. If we have something planned already we'll try to find you someone else to jump with that will give you an opportunity to have fun and learn.

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I try to stay out of the way a bit

You've got to break out of that thought if you want to get somewhere jumping. Its a very ME sport in that regard.

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at least i've started paying up on beer. That make up for anything? :P

That's very important. Paying beer dues means hanging out at the DZ with everyone. That's where you become a skydiver. Skydiving is more about the friends you have in the sport the longer you're in the sport.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 0]

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You do 100 belly jumps....you waste 100 jump tickets.

I realize that's semi-tongue-in-cheek, but even if you want to specialize in freefly as early as possible (which is fine), I feel strongly that good belly-flying skills, developed and refined as early as possible, are as much a basic life-saving skill for all disciplines as are good canopy-piloting skills.

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i did a 4 way head down flower for my 26 jump

I wouldn't recommend it that soon. I think a 4-way head-down with that few jumps is aggressively pushing the safety envelope. I'm glad you and those on those loads with you weren't hurt; but the fact that you weren't doesn't mean that it was a good idea.

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and been in 15 way jumps a number of time, and im still under a hundred jumps

You don't say how many jumps you had when you did your first "larger"-way jump; but larger-way jumps are whole 'nuther animal that can go to all sorts of shit in a heartbeat, and having one's shit solidly together (which believe it or not really does take time and experience) before doing them has in recent years – I think regrettably – become underrated.

To plagiarize a bit from Bill Booth, I fear that, just as hook turns and other landing accidents under good canopies have become the new way to break yourself despite gear safety improvements over the years, so, too, will the frequency of freefall and freefall-into-canopy collisions increase as more and more novice jumpers start going on more larger and larger-way dives with fewer and fewer jumps under their belts.
I wish I felt that I wasn't screaming into the wind about this, but I fear I am.

[playgroundguy 0]

I agree that it is B.S. about not jumping with others. I'm certainly no expert but I see myself already jumping alone too much! The times that I have jumped in a group have taught me a lot more about skydiving than any solo jump. Belly Flying can only take you so far.

I'm going out to Eloy after watching the Buckeyes rail the gators.

Good, Better, Best, never let it rest 'till your good better and your better best