How to kill your friends

[WeakMindedFool 0]

First watch This


Did I get your attention? Good! Now check it out. This is a sunset skydive last Saturday. Where and who doesn’t really matter, what does is that this could have been a fatal, maybe multi fatal incident. I said to myself, “Self…I’m not going to post about this.” I thought a lot about this skydive since and decided I should, I learned a lot and I hope a few other folks do as well. I hope to stimulate a dialogue about this skydive and ways to avoid it happening again. If your comments consist of derision, save it, the point is to learn, not talk about how stupid people could be. I assure you, the people involved are intelligent, current, and diligent about safety. Seemingly inconsequential mistakes that most of us have made can kill. Tunnel vision caused a no pull cypress fire to finish off this skydive.
The plan:
8-way Hybrid
3 in the base
3 hangers
2 stingers
Stingers off at 5500
Hangers drop at 5000
Base breaks at 4500
Experience level on this jump ranges from 175 to 8000 Skydives.
As you can see from the video one of the hangers punches through the base, a bloody nose for her and a serious hit to the back of the head to one of the folks in the round. He was complaining of significant vision problems, head pain and nausea after the fact. LEVELS PROXIMITY in that order! If you’re sliding forward into the burble get big on the burble side and small towards where you want to go. If an impact is unavoidable, just get big and spread the impact out, it will be better for all parties involved! Wanting to ball up is the natural response to an eminent impact, it’s also one of the worst things you can do. You are building more energy as you fall. Everyone made it back, bleeding and all to continue the skydive (plan the dive, dive the plan). As you can see when the hangers went to stand, one of them lost the grip and the formation flipped. What you can’t see is that one person in the base had a leg strap loosen, this caused his rig to lift off his back some. When deployment time came he couldn’t find his hacky…and spent the rest of his freefall, till 750 feet to be approximate, looking for it. Remember. Two tries then reserve. Now I know what a lot of you are thinking, “What a fool!!!” yeah, I was too, but panic does funny things to you. Tunnel vision happens to the best of us in extreme situations. If you have never reached back for a hacky and have it not be there, you can’t really say how you will react. Have a plan and it will go better for you.
The above problems started on the ground. From complacency with EP’s to putting people into slots they may not have been ready for, to poor safety briefing. We, as the more experienced skydivers, have a duty to be sure about what we are doing with the newer folks. It’s sunset and we all want to go on the same skydive but it’s not necessarily a good idea. I want to hear from you! What should we be doing differently? What did I miss?
PEACE!
Jason

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[jarrodh 0]

All hail the AAD!!

Glad to hear everyone was OK. To me this is justification enough to why AAD's should be worn by all. That guy would be dead without it.

That was a close one.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[Orange1 0]

Was the 175 jump person in the base? It seems to me like very low jump #s to be in an 8-way hybrid?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Not really. You have to remember, only a couple of years ago 200 was a D-License. It comes down to the individual, I know people who have 700 I would do a 2-way only with, others with 150 I've done VRW with (tunnel rat but still). I think it has more to do with currency and ability then with numbers. The 175 guy was in the base.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[kelpdiver 2]

what was the opening shock like for the guy with an (unexpected?) reserve opening on one tight leg strap?

see you out there soon- xrays showed my shoulder as solid today, so I'll wait another month and then get back to it.

[Remster 24]

Was the person who had the AAD fire the same as the one who got hit in the initial funnel? (who later complained of nausea?)

Remster

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Sry, should have made that clear. No, the cypress fire was in the base but wasn't injured from the impact. His leg strap was loosend from a hanger, enough that his rig was shifted to the point that he couldn't get at the hacky, or more likely he was looking in the wrong place.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[AFFI 0]

That's why I only film hybrids...

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I didn't like the incident, but I liked how the video was presented. I'm guessing it was a drop of at least 20 feet (probably more) once that skydiver got into the base's burble. Let's be careful out there people.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Reese04 0]

Jason is quite correct with his post. I was the one who took out the formation and very nearly caused the fatalities. As you can see, I don't post much- just observe here. There's no excuse for my actions. If I had any words of wisdom to offer, I wouldn't have done what I did. Again, my sincerest apologies to everyone involved, not just those who took the real brunt of it.

Respectfully all,

Cassidi Reese

[NWFlyer 2]

Glad you listened to the voices in your head, J.

It's stuff like this that I wish people would post/discuss more often. I don't think we do enough of the thoughtful evaluation of the incidents that everybody walks away from, shaking their heads, thinking "Damn, that was close."

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From complacency with EP’s to putting people into slots they may not have been ready for, to poor safety briefing. We, as the more experienced skydivers, have a duty to be sure about what we are doing with the newer folks. It’s sunset and we all want to go on the same skydive but it’s not necessarily a good idea. I want to hear from you! What should we be doing differently? What did I miss?

Well, I think that the responsibility is incumbent on both the most experienced folks and the least experienced folks. When planning hybrids and other zoo-ish jumps, I try to always ask "So what's the plan if this all goes to shit?" (e.g., everyone on their belly, try to rebuild until X,000 feet, changes in the breakoff plan if you're not where you expected to be at breakoff time, etc.).

I think sometimes the newer folks don't think about it - it's easy to get excited and focus on the dive plan, and the more experienced folks assume everyone knows what to do. I'm not ever the most experienced person on a jump like that, but I try to do my part to make sure the right discussions happen.

And you can keep doing what you're doing, Jason. When I was late on breakoff on that hybrid I did with you in Molalla, you gave me a little talking-to after the jump, and I definitely deserved it. It would have been easy to ignore it, but you didn't and I know I appreciate that kind of candor and I'm sure there's a lot of other less-experienced folks who do, too.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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There's no excuse for my actions.

We all make mistakes. I've come close to taking out people on two different occasions on head down freefly jumps which could have been their own potential fatality incidents. I (knock on wood) learned from my mistakes. You'll learn from yours.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Elisha 1]

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When deployment time came he couldn’t find his hacky…and spent the rest of his freefall, till 750 feet to be approximate, looking for it. Remember. Two tries then reserve. Now I know what a lot of you are thinking, “What a fool!!!” yeah, I was too, but panic does funny things to you. Tunnel vision happens to the best of us in extreme situations. If you have never reached back for a hacky and have it not be there, you can’t really say how you will react. Have a plan and it will go better for you.
The above problems started on the ground. From complacency with EP’s...

On the first jump of the day a couple of weeks ago, I reached for my hacky and it wasn't there...until my third or fourth grab. I was in the saddle by about 1900, but I was saying (audibly and to myself), "I did NOT like that, It was NOT cool!". I attribute it to a) not being fully comfortable while wearing gloves and b) complacency with EPs as above. I just didn't practice grabbing my hacky or enough beforehand. Much more minor of a scare then on the vid, but the vid reminded me of the incident. Thanks Jason.

[Peej 0]

Scary...

It just goes to show that these kinds of jumps need to be briefed thoroughly and that we all need to remember about burbles. You make a very good point about getting as big as possible if a collision is imminent though.

I remember falling on my 4 way team for the first time, it can happen SO quickly, before you know it you are through the centre (if you're lucky) and under that formation.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[piisfish 135]

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I remember falling on my 4 way team for the first time, it can happen SO quickly, before you know it you are through the centre (if you're lucky) and under that formation.

Ask Brokky what happened after he took the famous supertight french 8way formation...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Orange1 0]

Another question, do we know if the leg strap that came loose was fastened properly? Even with a hanger, my understanding of the way they fasten is that it shouldn't? (I ask also because I've done jumps where we've taken grips on chest straps for exit...)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[icevideot 0]

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There's no excuse for my actions.

Don't be so hard on yourself. It is good that you are willing to take responsibility but remember that we all make errors in judgment. Often they don't result in a collision or get caught on video so we may not recognize they ever happened. Skydiving comes with risk and we all know that and accept it. We also know that we have the responsibility to do everything we can to protect each other. I am sure you have learned from this and so have I. Now is the time to stop kicking yourself and be grateful we can all enjoy the holidays.

Thanks Jason, I have a few friends that can benefit from this.

Cheers,
Robin

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Remster 24]

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until my third or fourth grab

Yikes man.... What was your plan? 4 attempts? 2? Try until the AAD fires? Did you have a plan?

I dont want to ride you too much about that, but its the same issue that caused the AAD fire the OP videoed. Before AADs, quite a few people went in because of this.

Have a plan. And it should be 2 attempts, and then reserve.

Remster

[skybytch 259]

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There's no excuse for my actions.

Cass,

Quit kicking yourself.

Everybody takes out a formation at least once in their career; I doubt that any of us mean to do it. Most of the time the impacts are minor, occasionally they are not. This is one of the risks we take in jumping with other people.

Everybody made it back to the packing area in one piece. Everybody learned something. All is good.

[jheadley 0]

Good discussion, if I had to add something, I'd say that EVERYONE on a hybrid must have solid belly flying skills, yes, even the hangers and stingers. Also, large formations have large burbles, something that typical freeflyers don't run into very often.

[AFFI 0]

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I was the one who took out the formation.

If I had any words of wisdom to offer, I wouldn't have done what I did.

You wouldn’t have done what you did only if at some point in the past you done what you did that what you could figure out not to do what you did?

I know exactly how you are feeling right now and it’s really not a reason to be hard on yourself. The best skydiving close calls/learning incidents are the ones where there are no serious injuries to fret over. Believe it or not, sometimes when a situation takes place some of the individuals involved will not claim responsibility for their part of mistakes made and therefore do not learn from them.

You have humbly recognized it, claimed it and apparently are learning from it which in turn makes you a better person/skydiver as a direct result.

What a great attitude – I applaud you.

And what others said about taking it easy on yourself? Take their advice and don’t loose any more sleep.

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Plus...it was Phil you really took out...Ask TallGuy about Phil taking the base out. I've done it...more then once. I posted this because there was a lot to learn on this jump, not point fingers.......by the way, how's the nose?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[WeakMindedFool 0]

Yes it was on properly. Good thing dude didn't have a tiny reserve! I remember it happening on rental gear and seen it on new stuff with that chrom shit on the hardware. Sucks but lots of things suck, getting proficient at back flying might be a good idea. I have found backflying, for me, is the best position to deal with my gear in the air.
Now is that the lamest sentence ever "deal with my gear in the air". Lame but probably a good idea.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[NWFlyer 2]

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Yes it was on properly. Good thing dude didn't have a tiny reserve! I remember it happening on rental gear and seen it on new stuff with that chrom shit on the hardware. Sucks but lots of things suck, getting proficient at back flying might be a good idea. I have found backflying, for me, is the best position to deal with my gear in the air.
Now is that the lamest sentence ever "deal with my gear in the air". Lame but probably a good idea.

Uhh... that's coming across as a bit of a mixed message, Jason. Your video has just shown us what can happen when you try to "fix" your gear in the air ("I can find it, I know I can I know it's back there, where is it ..." boom, Cypres fire.) So advocating "get on your back to fix something that's wrong with your gear" sounds like it could be a recipe for disaster ... nothing like futzing around with gear when you can't even see the ground rushing up to meet you.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Agreed...I was thinking about how a Velo 103 at 2.1 would react to significantly asymetric leg strap lengths. Rigging in the air is bad, very bad, that said if I could fix a problem quickly I would do it. This is with the assumption that I had altitude to play with. At breakoff you have what you have

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos