How do you work up the nerve to jump again?

[scottjaco 0]

Hi, I’ve been struggling with the events I witnessed during the Christmas boogie at Eloy a few months back.

I haven’t skydived in a while and still have the black images in my mind of what happened to Cliff, Jay & Tom.

I witnessed Cliff & Jay’s accident while standing outside the hanger, I watched them from the time they separated from their entanglement, till the time they both slammed into the ground. It was the most horrifying thing that I’ve ever witnessed. It looked like their gear was getting torn apart as they descended towards the earth. (I later found out that they had both deployed their reserves before impact, and that Jay had prosthetic legs that had disconnected during the entanglement) Cliff's impact sounded like a shotgun blast. I knew he was dead when I heard that sound. I was greatful that at least Jay survived.

I knew Cliff when he was at Hollister. He seemed like a nice guy, I did a few jumps with him the first time I visited that dropzone.

The next day, I saw the aftermath of Tom’s accident. I basically stood there and watched everything from the CPR to when they lifted his broken body into the body bag.

I’ve been pretty hesitant to peruse the sport ever since. I just haven’t found the nerve.

I’ve done some therapy with consolers; I also tried Prozac to help alleviate the depression I was feeling after the incident.

I would like to know what others have done to move forward in the sport after seeing something like this. Is there a way of looking at this that might help to put things into perspective?

I would like to skydive, but I just have a lot of hang-ups because I’m afraid that I can’t control my surroundings or what might happen if I loose control of a situation.

Thanks for any advice that might help.

Scott

[OSOK 0]

Hey scott, I've never witnessed anything like that, so I can't really answer your question.
However, I'll say this: there's nothing wrong with simply not doing it anymore. I'd say also consider this an option.

[monkycndo 0]

I wish I had an answer. I broke my leg the day Cliff went in. I was there but didn't see Cliff. I saw Tommy go in from not far away. I can still see it. I knew them both. I am planning on making my first jump to return to the air today as I have finally healed enough. The winds just aren't cooperating. I'm not sure how I will feel when I climb in the plane. But I can't even imagine how it will feel to not ever jump again.

Good luck.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[bozo 0]

Scott you are struggling with the same things many of us have struggled with over the years.

You have to ask yourself..."is this sport...the freedom, the wild abandon and of course the friendships that last a lifetime...are these things worth it?" If you can answer yes...you will go on.
If the answer is no...you will go on to other things.

After almost 27 years I sometimes wonder why I stuck around having lost so many close friends and even more aquaintances.
There is no easy answer. The answer you need is in your heart...find it there.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[scottjaco 0]

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I'm not sure how I will feel when I climb in the plane.

I got on a plane to do a skydive 5 minutes after Cliff & Jay bounced. I can still remember the manifest speaker saying "Now call for DC-3"

I was amazed they didn't shut down.

[shropshire 0]

Sorry that you or anyone else had to witness any accident.

We dont have to jump, we can do other stuff for a while (I took a long break). One day the pull can draw you back... The sky's not going anywhere.

Good luck.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[scottjaco 0]

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The answer you need is in your heart...find it there.

I would like to continue because of the reasons you mentioned, I just don't want to get killed doing it. It's like being stuck in a feedback loop.

[bozo 0]

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The answer you need is in your heart...find it there.

I would like to continue because of the reasons you mentioned, I just don't want to get killed doing it. It's like being stuck in a feedback loop.

Scott...you can be killed walking down the street to the 7-11. You cant be sure that a bus wont jump the curb. You can choke to death on your very next meal. You can get pneumonia and be dead in days.
In skydiving you have infinitely more control of your life than anywhere else.
You saw some accidents....people died...stick around skydiving you will see more.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[chrismgtis 0]

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The answer you need is in your heart...find it there.

I would like to continue because of the reasons you mentioned, I just don't want to get killed doing it. It's like being stuck in a feedback loop.

You might consider taking a break for a while to get your mind off jumping and off the events you witnessed until you feel comfortable again. It may help to come back later and just hang around and socialize until you think your ready.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[trigger 0]

Unfortunately everytime you climb into an aircraft or even a car for instance,there is always a risk of death.
Skydiving is a very dangerous sport as i'm sure you know and if you're going to jump again you're going to have to accept the 'risks'associated with the sport and hopefully manage those risks and even so shit happens.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[scottjaco 0]

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It may help to come back later and just hang around and socialize until you think your ready.

That sounds like a good idea. I might just go up one day to hang out. It's better than sitting around stewing in my own miseries.

[diverdriver 5]

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It may help to come back later and just hang around and socialize until you think your ready.

That sounds like a good idea. I might just go up one day to hang out. It's better than sitting around stewing in my own miseries.

Scott, I'm not a psychologist I'm a pilot. I've seen some shit in my days too. I will suggest that you do not try to force the thoughts out of your mind. Fighting it just might make it worse for you. Have you gone to a DZ to talk about it with friends? You might find something from that conversation that you can not get with a therapist. Not saying going to a therapist is a waste of time. But I think you are asking to be given an answer (just the way I read your post) and a therapist can't give you the answer. They can only ask you questions so that they can draw out your own feelings on it and you answer the question yourself as Bozo said. It's in you to answer.

I almost quit the sport when after Sandy Wambach died at SDC. It was the 3rd fatality in 3 weeks. I witnessed the first from the plane (SL student) and then a CRW guy did a handstand in the risers and got entangled. Then Sandy went in on the first day of the world record attempts. We sent her back in the back of a CASA while all the jumpers lined the runway. It was a touching moment. It was near sunset. But I was tired of people I knew dieing in the sport and at such an alarming rate. But, the circumstance of the falities were that they had nothing to do with each other, other than geography. A SL student entangles with the main and goes in. An experienced jumper tries a stunt at a low altitude and pays for it. A highly experienced jumper (Sandy) runs into another highly experienced jumper in a dive knocking herself out and she goes in. The proximity of time of the accidents also played into it as it seems to be doing with you too. 3 fatalities in 2 days? That can play with your head. You hadn't had time to really absorb the first one then you were faced with more.

You're not a robot and can't be expected to be emotionless about it so don't demand that of yourself. However, you have to accept that there is nothing you can do to change what has happened for the people it happened to. But you CAN change things in the future for someone coming into the sport when you share your knowledge and experience. And when you do that you are making a difference. Choose to come back or to not come back I respect you for your post and putting it out there. Takes guts to say what you did in your original post.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[scottjaco 0]

Thanks for your words Chris.

I remember thinking to myself that while the deceased have moved on, the rest of us are left to clean up the mess. Someone had to call the family, someone had to go to the dropzone to pick up their car, and then go to their homes to clean out & distribute all their worldly possessions, then make the funeral arrangements. It’s just a huge mess when someone dies unexpectedly.

I guess it bothers me more when someone dies young. I knew Cliff was going to college to become a lawyer and had a lot of good things in his future. It seems as though they’ve been cheated out of living up to their full potential in life, getting married, having kids, growing old.

My depression was more of a dissociative response. I started to view people as cardboard cutouts, with no depth. That second day, when Tom died, it was like watching toy soldiers. I didn’t have any real emotional response like I had the day before when Cliff died.

The counseling & medication was extremely helpful. It’s too bad I have all this doubt when it comes to jumping again. I wish I could just forget the whole thing happened.

Cliff & Tom had a good send-off. They both seemed to have many friends that honored them with memorial dives & a 2 page tribute in Parachutist. That’s more than most deceased people get.

I’ll eventually return to skydiving. I want to make it clear that if I should die in the sport, I don’t want anyone feeling sorry for me. I don’t want anyone to experience grief or be pushed into quitting the sport on the account of me.

Thanks for all the responses.

Scott

[mrken 0]

I just got my A license there when the Christmas boogie started. I pretty much went tracking on every jump so I could go out last and sit in brakes to land in the student area since I was a bit intimidated by being around so many pros and didn’t want to screw things up for someone else.

This is a bit of a multi-faceted rejoinder as your post triggered a slew of memories and emotions; forgive me if my post appears disjointed.

I guess this all depends on the type of path you have traveled, and your priorities. I myself have full blown PTSD and mild claustrophobia. A nut-ball came into Denny’s (Tucson, Oracle & Orange Grove) while I was studying with my math tutor and waved a rifle around. We were all being ordered to go into the kitchen and lay on the floor when the bathroom door opened and a pregnant woman stepped out. The gunman spun around because of the noise and opened fire, killing her. Two years later; I was heavily sauced and trying to sober up at another Denny’s (Speedway & Dodge) with three friends when one pulled out a revolver to show us (there was a back smoking room we’re they would blast the AC and not serve you for an hour, wanting you to just leave) the new grips he got for his Model 10. I feigned interest, held it then laid it back down on the table. My other friend (leaving names out) then just picked it up, held it to his head and smiled at us. He pulled the trigger. I decided that Denny’s would forever lose my business :/

I tried counseling too and medication. I can say that if you still want to try medication, know that you need to take it faithfully for weeks before it can really work. Unfortunately this adjustment period and side effects often discourage people from faithfully taking SSRI & SSNRIs. They aren’t the final answer. If you think of your emotions as a curved graph (like a cosine function, [yeah I’m a nerd]), you’ll still have your ups and downs, the meds will just decrease the amplitude. Try different psychotherapists; they’re not created equal and you can maybe even find one good enough so that you can work out a stable paradigm that doesn’t require medication (my boat).

Jumping saved my life in different ways. You certainly cannot control all of the variables in a situation, but through my mistakes I think I am starting to learn that you can gradually minimize them by improving your planning before you even board the Otter. I am a new jumper, and I’ve been able to draw the conclusion that every “oh shit!” situation I have been in so far has been a mix of poor (or lack of) planning combined with being a newbie. I’ve started writing little flow charts in my diary to retrace how Bad Decision A lead to Bad Decision B; in hopes that I will learn to avoid that route again.
Sometimes watching the fun and cool videos of the very talented jumpers inspires me to turn off the computer and drive up to Eloy. It was actually a google video I stumbled upon of an amazing female freeflyer (leaving her nameless as I blush now ) that motivated me to sign up for ASP(AFF) course there. I can say that jumping to me is safer than riding a motorcycle in Tucson; I learned that there is a hell of a lot less control when a pickup truck full of rednecks decides to deliberately swerve into at 30 mph because you ignored their drunken requests for a wheelie at the previous red light.

When the light goes green and I see a formation go out in front of me I sometimes think “Is this normal? Are we a little retarded for doing this?” Sometimes I laugh it off, sometimes the nerves work against me a bit (maybe because I am still so new) and I just remember that by being here I am able to escape all of the drama at work and college; and that makes me smile. I’m then at least able to take a deep breath and say “Alright, lets not get a Darwin Award” and go out. Then I am falling out in that very open beautiful blue and all of my tension slips away. It’s even written into my psych report that it is an acceptable form tension mitigation and stress relief. I know I certainly feel relieved when I pull up to Eloy, if only for the fact that the drive on the highway there felt statistically riskier.

[peckerhead 0]

Well Scott there are some things you can do to increase your comfort level...

Jump at small drop zones with only 3 other canopies in the air, stay away from the turbine factories.

I know of several drop zones like this that have not had a fatality in several decades. I know of one that has never had one in 30 years.

It has gotten to the point where I don't like big boogies or big drop zones anymore because of the idiots. Long tracks and long walks if I go.

Who needs stress and drama? Skydiving is supposed to be fun!

[BillyVance 34]

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The answer you need is in your heart...find it there.

I would like to continue because of the reasons you mentioned, I just don't want to get killed doing it. It's like being stuck in a feedback loop.

I know what feedback loops sound like.

Everybody reacts differently after witnessing horrific accidents in the sport. I was involved in a canopy collision that collapsed the canopy of the other guy, who went in and died in the hospital that day and I landed a fully-functioning canopy. Even to this day I wonder why him and not me, and it's been more than 10 years. Later on, I witnessed two horrible accidents at the WFFC in '97, the infamous "Dead" Mike incident where he slammed on the paved runway after a canopy collision, broke damn near every bone in his body, was declared dead shortly after being loaded in the ambulance, then suddenly revived on his own. He recovered after something like 10 major surgeries. The other incident was someone making a panic turn away from landing on an empty taxiway into a congested camping area, and slammed into the steps of a camper not more than 20 yards from where I was packing my rig. He was dead within 15 seconds.

I swore I would never go to WFFC again. It was just too chaotic. You weren't safe even on the ground.

Luckily, I had some great friends who helped me along after my incident, which happened in January 1997. I went on to make over 300 jumps that year. It was my therapy, just being with friends and having a good time jumping, but also being mindful of safety.

Like I said, everyone's different. Another example: at WFFC '97 (the only one I attended), I was at the loading tent with my group waiting for our load. We were watching some jumpers land. We saw one flub the landing on a taxiway next to a wide open and empty secondary landing area, and his foot appeared to be hanging 90 degrees off, only by the skin on one side. A girl that was in my group was so freaked out just seeing that, that she took herself off the load and walked right back to our camp and didn't jump the rest of the day.

All I can say is, do what you have to do. Only YOU know what's best for you. But DO give yourself a chance to hang out with your skydiving friends at the DZ one evening (you don't have to show up to jump), and just talk with them. Maybe they can help give you some in-person insight on your mindset. But only YOU can decide for yourself.

I'm still jumping after all these years, but I don't do super big ways or night jumps anymore. I also probably won't jump at the super DZs like Perris or Eloy, or at major boogies anywhere. I have a little girl to think about to keep my risk manageable.

Good luck.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[bloody_trauma 2]

sorry to hear your having some of the thoughts youve been having, thought it might help if i gave you some of my wisdom

ive never seen anyone burn in, or even injure themselves on a skydive, but i am a us army combat medic and have been privy to some of the most horrific scenes you could imagine. from watching someone sitting next to me turn into mush, to myself not dieing while others around me did so, and its not easy overcoming the thoughts that come with death, but when you think about it, you could die at any moment, and the best way that we in the military deal with it is by having somewhat of a different thought process about death and dying

and that is simply, when its your time to go, there wont have been a damn thing you or anyone else could have done about it that you didnt already do.

life is not guaranteed but we still go out in those armored vehicles not only because were told to but because if its your time to go, then brother you dont get a say, i can try to revive you all day but if theres nothing i can do for you then adios, ill see ya on the other side.

its ok to have a fear of jumping its a mortal response to the trauma youve witnessed, every day after the first attack i was in in iraq i thought to myself that it was gonna happen to me, but it didnt, and 99.9% of that reason is because i didnt let them get me, by staying alert and training i survived.

same with skydiving it can happen to the best of us, its that 00.1% that gets even the pros out there, the only thing you can do is put your nest foot forward and make sure that your skills are sharp and your gear is configured correctly and you are aware of your surroundings.

as far as the Post Traumatic Stress disorder that youre probably going through, youre taking the right steps to heal yourself by talking to others that have seen things that we weret meant to see. with time and well more time youll be healed of your emotional wounds but the scars last forever.

Just take in the lessons they left behind and try not to fall victim to the "00.1%" of life little curve balls

Fly it like you stole it

[cloud9 0]

I think BOZO has it right but let me add a little bit. You, Me, Us, We have very little control over our lives. We think we do, but it's just not the case. You drive 70 miles an hour with only a few feet separating a head on collision of 140 mph. You step on your break believing it will work. You cross railroad crossings assuming no train is coming because the arms aren't down. You take medications with no idea if you’re e going to have a reaction. You assume pilots are going to keep aircraft in the sky and that doctors know what they're doing. We assume our co-workers won’t come to work to kill everyone there. Our children go to school everyday and we believe they will come home. Any way the list never ends, we have very little control over our lives and of course skydiving is part of the same denial. We have no control over someone else flying their canopy, or the pilot flying the plane or the weather (dust devils) ect We only control our own actions and the truth is some people even loose control of that. Anyway I hope I didn't depress you too much. So go have fun and control what you can and take precautions where you can and then let the chips fall where they may

[NWFlyer 2]

Scott, I don't know the answer to your question. I feel so fortunate that though I was at Eloy, I was behind the hangar during Cliff & Jay's incident, and in the air on another load during Tommy's incident. Though I felt the aftermath, I didn't have to see it. I'm really not sure how I would handle seeing it.

I do want to thank you for being open about counseling and medication. I worry sometimes that we skydivers feel like if we seek professional help the professionals "wouldn't understand" or that we don't sometimes need that kind of help to deal with the stuff that we see and experience on a more regular basis than most people.

It's a wonderful community, and that community spirit and being around others who "get it" can really help us through the dark side of the sport. But it's also good for all of us to remember that sometimes what we're facing goes beyond what our community can help us with and that it's totally okay to look for help elsewhere rather than trying to gut it out or drink it away.

Good luck figuring out what the right answer is for you. It may be staying part of the community but staying on the ground, or it may mean stepping away from skydiving entirely to clear your head for a while. I don't know.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[karenmeal 0]

I've never seen anyone go in, so I've never had that traumatic experience. But I have lost a few friends and came pretty close to bouncing myself. Each time something happens in the sport that shakes me up, I take the time to consider what my comfort zone is.

I know that my comfort zone is not at boogies. Heck, even a caravan full of fun jumpers is a bit beyond my true comfort zone, but I can handle it by planning on the ground what I'm going to do in the air to protect myself from all those other folk on the load who I may not entirely trust.

I'm going to Lost Prairie this year, and I know that in the early morning and towards sunset load the sky isn't as packed with jumpers, I also know that the wind is the most calm at those times of the day. Chances are, most of my jumps will be either early or late so that I can feel most comfortable in the air. I'll also try to land on the outskirts of the landing area where traffic isn't as heavy.

Skydiving still scares me and every so often I wonder what the heck I'm doing. But, when I stop to truly consider the risks and the way that I can proactively manage them, I feel a lot better about my chances of surviving another skydive. I just wanted to share with you some of the ways that I will cope with the extra stress and danger of a large boogie environment.

I hope that whatever you decide to do will give you some peace of mind.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[Tonto 1]

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I would like to continue because of the reasons you mentioned, I just don't want to get killed doing it.

None of us want to get killed doing it, but it can happen to any of us on any skydive. You've spent a couple of years seeing the "blue Skies!" side of the sport. It's good. Now you've seen the "Black Death!" side of the sport. It sucks. If you keep jumping, you'll see it again, and again. Or you'll be it. I think this sport is worth it. Everyone dies sooner or later.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[AFFI 0]

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I would like to know what others have done to move forward in the sport after seeing something like this.

As others have stated, it is ok to give up skydiving.

What worked for me was getting my shocked ass on the next possible load. But I had no choice in a sense; I will skydive until I am no longer able.

I took counsel with someone with 45 years in the sport and he assured me that just because that happened to someone I knew hat it would not necessarily happen to me, and that accidents happen in this sport like anything else.
Once I was in freefall, I was not thinking about the fatality I had witnessed only hours earlier, and as always, freefall gave me total release from all my problems in life and the distraction of seeing someone I knew perish.

I did find myself however, more vigilant under canopy and in my training so witnessing such an atrocity was actually beneficial for me in the sense that it illustrated what can happen, how quickly things can turn to shit and to train much more and be a prepared as possible.

We all die, and if I perish skydiving no one will be able to say it wasn’t for a lack of training and preparation.
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Auryn 0]

Everyone here has posted some really good things.. I just wanted to add that no matter what you're doing with your life, skydiving or bowling, you're going to know and see people die. It's just a fact of life. It sucks big time.

I personally have known and seen more people die off the dropzone than on the dropzone.. way more.

personally I've had trouble with what I've seen on the DZ b/c it is sooo abrupt and violent-but in the end the result is the same as someone going peacefully in bed. Everyone dies alone- even if family is surrounding the bed when you're 80, you're still the only one dying.

thank you for having the courage to bring up the last taboo we have in our society. Just know that you're not alone.

Bryan

[skyjump11 0]

please forgive me for sharing my thoughts
(I seldom, if ever, write on any of these posts)
Baskin-Robins has 31 different flavors....if it were
up to me they would only have chocolate...but
different people like different things. If you have
to think about it.....don't do it. Everything in this
life has a beginning, a middle and an end.
So it is with the span of life...so it is with each of
our jumping careers....whatever you decide..
grace, peace & blue skies

[stuntedflyer 0]

Scott,

I feel a lot of empathy for you mate. Aside from what everyone else has said, you could perhaps try one thing, and this is all I can personally offer.

Log on to www.skysurfer.com.au, register an account and once you are approved, go to "Ramblings" in the "Eight-eighths" forum of the site. Have a read.

I sincerely hope this helps mate.

Blue Ones,
Corey.