skydived19006 4 #1 July 13, 2007 Another angle to steel money! The Skyride boys are now posing as "helping" charities. My friends on the dzos.net email list tracked this info down. This site is not live yet, but look at what those sleaze bags at Skyride are doing now: http://72.34.43.224/%7Eskydiv4/ This is their test site. The live site WILL be www.skydive4free.com We know it's Skyride because of the whois contact info and some affiliates down the line through several other websites. They now want to lend a hand in raising money for charity. Bless their hearts. Do you suppose that they've had a change of heart, and went lagit? They could actually plan to pass 1% of the money right through to the deserving charities! What a couple of sweetheart guys!Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #2 July 13, 2007 hmmm.. looked what Norton popped up when I visited that site... LOL"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #3 July 13, 2007 Good eyes guys. We need to expose everything those shitbags do."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #4 July 13, 2007 This could have an impact as well down the line http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/07/12/1425226.shtml "Google is the target of another lawsuit — this time over whether or not they are responsible for the content that advertisers put up on their site. The case involves an instance where Google displayed ads for two automotive dealerships in Australia, yet the links led users to the site of a commercial rival. The company that placed the ads in 2005 avoided a lawsuit by settling with Australian regulators, who are now going after Google for not policing the ads. If this suit holds up it will set a precedent for very heavy ad monitoring responsibility on the part of all search engines, not just Google_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #5 July 13, 2007 close from the web site QuoteBased upon the minimum amount raised of $500 your charity will receive a minimum of 50% of the proceeds from your fund raising efforts. lol what "nice guys" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #6 July 13, 2007 Well, obviously if they say %50 on the web site, then %50 it is! We all know that honesty is a way of life within bowls of the Skyride boiler room. I'd enjoy reading the official Skyride Mission Statement! If I had a little more time right now, I'd take a stab at writing one for amusement. Seems like it may read similar to a whore house mission statement, but without the happy customer. No offense to any whores who may stumble across this post! Not a fair comparison, as a whore is way up the food chain from these guys!! Whores actually provide a service! Maybe Skyride will soon start brokering gift certificates for street walkers? Shhhhh! Didn't mean to give them any new ideas. Quote QuoteBased upon the minimum amount raised of $500 your charity will receive a minimum of 50% of the proceeds from your fund raising efforts.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #7 July 13, 2007 Quote I'd enjoy reading the official Skyride Mission Statement! "Never give a sucker an even break", perhaps? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #8 July 13, 2007 I'm not so sure that skydive4free.com is connected to Skyride. Can someone who has the ability do a little investigation on the web site owners etc. I just got a call from the guy running this business, and he sounds lagit. Martin QuoteAnother angle to steel money! The Skyride boys are now posing as "helping" charities. My friends on the dzos.net email list tracked this info down. This site is not live yet, but look at what those sleaze bags at Skyride are doing now: http://72.34.43.224/%7Eskydiv4/ This is their test site. The live site WILL be www.skydive4free.com We know it's Skyride because of the whois contact info and some affiliates down the line through several other websites. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #9 July 13, 2007 That site is ran but the same people that run Adventurize.com They seem to be partnered with actual DZ's and list their locations.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stuartjl 0 #10 July 14, 2007 Just to out the record straight I am the owner of the Skydive4free.com business and i would be happy to clear this rumour up. Skydive4free.com is a charity fund raising site that is legitimately AND YES, REALLY contracted to a a variety of major charity clients. I have designed the business and its work flow to accommodate the DZO to the maximum possible. The process is very simple: 1) The volunteer raises $500 for a nominated charity from amongst our list. We have agreements with causes like Y-ME National Breast Cancer Association, Stand Up For Kids, Arthritis Foundation and many others. 2) The volunteer chooses from a list of dropzones that we ADVERTISE on our site with all their contact info and a link back their site. 3) The DZ gets a booking and PAID IN ADVANCE 4) The Charity gets A MINIMUM OF $250 from the first $500 and then 100% of every penny thereafter. In most cases the charity gets almost $300 from the first $500 depending upon how much the DZ is charging. The whole point of the project is to bring awareness of skydiving to a new audience and raise much needed money for the charities that we work with. I would very much appreciate it if people would take time to check the facts before they shoot about making slanderous accusations. Apparently the evidence against us is someone told someone they'd tracked the IP address or something ridiculous. Amateur sleuths should stick to Murder She Wrote! Blue Skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #11 July 14, 2007 According to Whois: Adventurize.com +1.18003597046 Phone 181 Rea Ave El Cajon, California 92020 United States www.skydive4free.com stuart livett (619) 590-1166 Phone (619) 768-5510 Fax 181 rea ave el cajon, California 92020 United States [email protected] It's great that you are a legit business and not related to Skyride, but at the same time, understand that scams are a dime a dozen. I've looked at your website that is to be launched soon, and found it wanting for substantiated information. The "Adventurize.com" website looks to be very similar in nature to Skyride, even though it is clearly different. Personally, I don't feel it's a related issue, but one worth pondering. IMO, national service bureaus/brokerages don't serve a personalized sport like skydiving very well, and given the scam attitude that Skyride has brought to this industry, you can't fault people for being gunshy. Other than the integrity of being truly associated with a dropzone, what makes you different than Skyride? You're a national company wanting to broker skydives (and other adventure sports) for dropzones. Skyride started out exactly the same way, but got to the point of faking DZ locations and DZ websites. The charity angle may be a good one, and I like the idea. But your website doesn't list the charities you mention here other than Stand Up for Kids. (I'm looking at your DNS/skydiv4 website), and it offers one very small national charity "Stand Up For Kids" and one extremely small charity local only to San Diego. "Stand Up For Kids" hasn't filed an annual charity report (as required by law) since 2004 nor a financial report since 2005. The only active reporting Stand Up For Kids group is in San Diego at San Diego State University and they haven't modified their webpage since 2003, with their last listed meeting in 2004. The last news report related to Stand Up for Kids was listed on April 27, 2002. CAPF, which has two listings on your website, is a San Diego-based Christian organization that is very small, very local, whose last listed press release (echoed on your own website) was in 1999, and appear to be primarily a non-operational arm of the Women's International Center. WIC is predominantly a female awards/recognition group, it doesn't appear that they donate much back to the community. I'm not the person that compared, sleuthed, nor reported you being involved or the same as Skyride. But I'm not an "amateur sleuth" either. I did my research when your email was sent to me by my DZM and wasn't excited about what I found, or rather, didn't find. I was looking for a solid foundation behind what you're trying to accomplish, and found only two local charities in the San Diego area. If there is more information, it's not listed ANYWHERE on the web, as I spent a long time trying to find it. You might well be involved in something great, but by all appearances with a bit of time looking around your website, the websites of the two charities on your website, and the information you provided in your letter and this posting....all add up to a local benefit (San Diego) that you are asking DZ's across the country to fund. If it's all a wonderful thing, I'd be pleased to find myself having misread what you're attempting, and will be the first to admit it if I am. Bu something doesn't seem entirely up front. Maybe you're letting too much out too soon? The website needs finessing? More information? You can't blame people for being suspicious. Blame Skyride for screwing with the integrity of this industry if you want to be pissed at someone. Everyone wants to do charitable work, and if that's truly what you're doing...more power to you. But in the face of what your website offers and in the shadow of Skyride...skepticism is healthy, from where I sit. It's terrific that you and your partner are skydivers, but so are Ben Butler and party, so that can't carry much water. Skyride also says they're bringing new blood to skydiving. Obviously, people here don't agree. Now back to watching "Murder She Wrote." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stuartjl 0 #12 July 14, 2007 OK, you make a number of points there. Firstly, Adventurize.com does not trade presently and there is no plan to see it operate at least for the remainder of this year. However, I think that main point that you are driving at is how booking agencies relate to the skydiving business. I understand the fuss over Skyride and I deplore their marketing tactics and over all standard in business ethics. That said, they are running a legal business that does very good trade with a lot of USPA dropzones. There is no reason why 3rd party booking agents can not work effectively for the industry as they do around the world. In the UK there are over 20 different booking agencies that all contribute millions of dollars of trade in to the dropzones that they deal with. They are generally very sound businesses and the benefit to the DZO is that can concentrate on running the business and simply watch the bookings come in. In addition, by some estimates over half of all the tandems done in the UK are for charity and it has raised millions in contributions to the extent that tandem skydiving is synonymous with charity donations. Skydive4free is bringing the model to the US and ther service will launch in a few days. PLEASE NOTE: The existing site at www.skydive4free.com is a place holder whilst the real site is completed. I thank you for your critique of the rough draft but no-one has seen the final site, including myself. The point of the business is to raise $10,000,000 for charity by 2012. No dropzones are 'funding' the operation or charities. Any discount that we get off the jumps goes directly to the charity. No one is being asked to accept bad business and the way that we treat the customer and the dropzones is exemplary. AS you have detected all my contact information is clearly posted on my websites and so far I have not received a single email or telephone call complaining or stressing over my plans and the vast majority of DZOs that I have spoken to have welcomed the project with open arms and wished us well. Skydive4free gives money to charites that we have real contractual relationships with, the dropzones get extra business at good rates and expands there operation. The sport of skydiving expands after a protracted period of shrinkage and every one benefits. Where is the problem? Imagine my dismay at being accused of being Skyride in disguise! I will be able to announce our full list of partnered charities when the site launches. You are entirely incorrect about both charities that you scorn in your post. Stand Up For Kids operates throughout the US (http://www.standupforkids.org/slocal.html) and has recently been congratulated by Congressman McDermott after they successfully lobbied Congress, follwoing a meeting with Nancy Polosi to pass new legislation to tackle the issue homeless youth in America (http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp070711a.shtml)Stand Up For Kids was chosen from a long line of charity applicants to be the American partner for Virgin Unite which is a major accolade. Skydive4free.com will be running an event where the CEO of the charity Rick Koca will make a jump. The Child Abuse Prevention Foundation is a very well respected charity in San Diego that does outstanding work on a tight budget which is why we are working with them. . We also have national agreements with the Y-Me National Breast Cancer Association and also represent the National Multiple Sclerosis Society which has 58 branches, Arthritis Foundation and many more. The nexus with skydiving is not an 'angle' as you put as we are funding much more important issues. I am very happy to answer any questions directly so please feel free to contact me if you are not convinced. Blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #13 July 15, 2007 Stuart, A lot of time was put into investigating what you're doing by myself and someone else at our DZ when you contacted us. While what you are putting together may be entirely above board, it doesn't appear to be entirely so. Getting a comment from anyone in Congress isn't a big deal. I personally have two letters of gratitude from members of Congress for work in my culture. Big deal. I guess I can use them when I run out of TP. Your charities as listed on *your* website that you are inviting people to visit, are exactly as I listed. http://www.standupforkids.org/sreports.html offers financial reports and as I said, they havent filed an annual since 2004 according to their own site. An operating budget of 2M nationwide won't pay the light bill. They appear to be a front for some other organization by the type of website they present. Maybe like yours, their website isn't complete, but without full information, what do you expect? Particularly when you label people that investigate what you're doing as "amatuer sleuths that should stick to Murder She Wrote?" You want our money, you want our participation, but you provide little substantive information. You're looking to more than quadruple their annual donation, but they're still a San Diego-based charity. This response departs entirely from the Skyride thread, so I'll close by saying that the Adventurize.com website, whether fully operational or not, smells exactly like Skyride. The only difference I can see is that you don't have fake listings for dropzones or adventures in cities you're not related to, but rather offer experiences in select cities. Everything else you're saying smacks of exactly Skyride. ~Bringing new blood to the sport ~Money for the DZ ~Skydiving for the masses ~We're a real business ~We're real skydivers ~"We're just trying to help everybody out and make a few bucks in the process" (Didn't Tony Soprano say that once?)The Adventurize.com website is significantly built out with greater depth than the Skydive4free.com website, so it seems odd that you'd say it's non-operational for the remainder of the year. I'm sure (just by the fact that you're posting here under your name) that you have ethics and values, unlike the Skyride creeps. But you've also got to step outside of your position and realize that you're flying in the burble of Skyride's current flight (if I might use relative terms). You'll have to figure some way of combating that image. Quote That said, they are running a legal business that does very good trade with a lot of USPA dropzones. There is no reason why 3rd party booking agents can not work effectively for the industry as they do around the world. The mere fact that you're defending Skyride at some level says enough for me. Between looking into your program, and seeing your endorsement of any of Skyride's practices, seals the deal for me. I think this industry and community has earned the right to be skeptical. BTW, the address you sent me to view is http://72.34.43.224/~skydiv4/ If that isn't complete, if it's lacking critical information, why share the link and be asking for money now? How about waiting til we can see some real-name endorsements, real proof of intent, and actual charitible institutions that are genuinely national vs small San Diego organizations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stuartjl 0 #14 July 15, 2007 We are not asking for any contributions now as the site is not launched. Unlike Skyride I am putting together proper supply agreements with DZs and being completely open and honest about the project. That is why I am making personal phone calls to DZOs and going about this in the correct manner. If you have an axe to grind with Skyride then take it up with them. But please stop trying to suggest that I am in business with Skyride, or operate my business like Skyride or have any other parallel with Skyride whatsoever. Pease forgive me, but I am not entirely sure which DZ you are from. I have checked the emails that I have sent to all the people i have spoken to in Utah and it states very clearly that the service has not yet launched. I do not want your money, if you are willing to offer a discount to us on the basis of our EXTREMELY fair dealings with DZs then that is your perogative and every penny in discount benefits the charity directly. I have personally called every DZ that we deal and explained the program in detail to avoid this type of wild rumour. StandUp For Kids is a small charity that is based in San Diego but provides services nationally. They have been running for many years and are trying to expand. If you feel that they are a false or unworthy charity then please call Virgin and Levi and American Eagle Outfitters without delay and tell them about your concerns, maybe you're right and these sponsors have been duped! As I am based in San Diego it is reasonable to expect that some of the charities that we work with are based in San Diego. Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to help a San Diego childrens charity? Skyride has backed a lot of DZs into the corner and created an atmosphere of suspicion. This looks like the picture of an elephant and the mouse. All you have to do is step on the mouse and the problem goes away. Some posts in this forum have suggsted launching 'denial of service' attacks on their websites and other guerrilla tactics. Well that is a Federal crime and I do not support that action. Skyride survives because it does lots of business. It is a great shame that they treat the supplier and customer so badly when there should be no reason to do so. I'm sure that they would do a lot better if they turned into an ethical company. Let there be no doubt: I do not support Skyride or defend their ethics. Remember, lots of USPA DZs gladly take their business. The answer is that DZOs need to get together and stamp out the problem. DZOs do not speak with a common voice and my experience has been that Skyride is the 2nd most hated thing in skydiving. The most hated thing being the nearest competing dropzone! I have spoken to a great number of DZOs and when I ask about recommendations for other dropzones I get back very negative remarks in almost all cases. I recently had a DZO suggesting major safety problems with other local DZs and suggested i check the NTSB website. Skyride is usually the farthest thing from their mind. Skydiving has been on the decline in recent years in the US. This means that the USPA and its member DZs need to innovate to survive. What happens when fuel prices push the price of a tandem up to $300 (it will happen) Where is skydiving going to be then?? The rest of the world is working very well with outside booking agencies and can sort the wheat from the chaff. If you can embrace outside agencies and show them a way to make money from selling your services then you will have a very secure and successful business. This is true in all other activity businesses. Why does the motorsport experience business have such a good relationship with their agents and skydiving doesn't. Skydiving has many threats to its existence and any DZO knows the risks of the business. Booking agents are not one of the major risks. If Skyride are such a problem then get together and compete! In the meantime I and Skydive4free will continue to operate honestly and fairly. I am expecting to spend most of my time expanding our charity base, raising money, and maintaining good realtionships with our participating DZs. I hope that i don't have to spend much time defending damaging and false rumours about our/my integrity. I do sympathise with your skepticism as i have been a DZO and have been intimately involved in setting up and running dropzones in both the UK and the US so I know what you are facing. Let's work together to show how the relationship can work to everyones benefit and undermine Skyride from a position of moral and commercial strength. Stuart Livett Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hchunter614 0 #15 July 16, 2007 My question would be "What percentage of donations are you earmarking for administrative purposes?" Ie, what percentage are you keeping (not giving to the charity or the DZ)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #16 July 16, 2007 I think this need to be split from this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stuartjl 0 #17 July 16, 2007 Our fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 187 #18 July 16, 2007 QuoteOur fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. This is a teeny bit too much like Skyride for my liking. What do you bring to the party? If I want to make a donation to a charity, I make a donation to the charity. If I want to participate in an activity, I find people who conduct the activity and strike a bargain with them. It is not very hard - so long as there are not posers trying to insinuate themselves into the deal. It is less fuss to make a donation and arrange to make a tandem without your help than it is with it. Cutting yourself for a piece of the action, while adding negative value, is quite in keeping with the Skyride business model. Don't worry, they can explain why they are not goniffs either. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #19 July 16, 2007 QuoteI do sympathise with your skepticism as i have been a DZO and have been intimately involved in setting up and running dropzones in both the UK and the US so I know what you are facing. Let's work together to show how the relationship can work to everyones benefit and undermine Skyride from a position of moral and commercial strength. 1. We're not the UK. Completely different social model. Completely different charitable model. 2. I'm not interested in partnering with *any* third party that has inserted themselves between me and my customer. Some of what you have to say sounds like "OK, my model is somewhat like Skyride, but Skyride is my main competition and so they suck. Work with me and the third-party/booking partnership will suck less." I don't want a relationship with smoeone that is trying to take a piece of my pie that will "suck less." I'd rather see the USPA get a reasonable proposal for promotion of the sport by a party that would work on behalf of the sport, rather than some San Diego charities and their own pocket. I'd prefer that the USPA be the body that brings dropzones together, not a third party. I'd prefer that the USPA is marketing the sport, not a third party that believes it's OK to have a nationwide booking service inserted between me and my customer. I don't see much of an upside. Skydiving isn't hurting because people don't know about skydiving. Skydiving is hurting because people are motivated to do other things with their time such as rock climbing, camping, water sports, BASE, motorcycles... The pie is only 'so big' and we'er all fighting for the same financial slice. Skydiving is hurting because of the general perceived image of the sport. Skydiving is hurting because it's expensive. Skydiving is hurting because it's not the "sport du jour" that it has been off and on in the media. Discovery Channel "Stunt Junkies" and similar exposures will (and are) doing a lot more for skydiving than Skyride or any charitable work could possibly imagine, and DZO's aren't spending a dime for that sort of promotion. Sorry Stuart, but the more I hear of what you're doing, the more convinced I am that we've done the right thing by stepping back from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #20 July 16, 2007 QuoteSorry Stuart, but the more I hear of what you're doing, the more convinced I am that we've done the right thing by stepping back from it. I would agree as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #21 July 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteOur fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. This is a teeny bit too much like Skyride for my liking. What do you bring to the party? If I want to make a donation to a charity, I make a donation to the charity. If the average fundraising result is 500-1000$, that 45$ is a huge piece and the tandem is a gigantic piece. If 50-60% reach the charity and they blow half of it too, not much good being done. I personally wouldn't contribute to someone's fundraising effort to give them a free jump. I don't see any proper linkage. The charity marathons (and now half marathons) and triathlons are equally troubling. With Team in Training you typically raise $3000, in exchange for which you get airfare/hotel/race entry at a nice location. That could easily be $1000 of it. My gf contributed the true costs of the trip to Hawaii when she did Honolulu via Aids Marathon. Short of that pledge, I wouldn't contribute to a person's "life changing quest" bullshit. I'd much rather contribute directly. That person can run a local event. All that aside, so long as this organization doesn't steal website designs, make fictional dropzones, fradulently take possession of 800 numbers, or lie to their customers about the nearest dropzone, all luck to them. If people want their charitable contributions to fund someone's recreational needs, not my concern. Might be for the IRS, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MakeItHappen 15 #22 July 17, 2007 QuoteAnother angle to steel money! The Skyride boys are now posing as "helping" charities. My friends on the dzos.net email list tracked this info down. This site is not live yet, but look at what those sleaze bags at Skyride are doing now: http://72.34.43.224/%7Eskydiv4/ This is their test site. The live site WILL be www.skydive4free.com We know it's Skyride because of the whois contact info and some affiliates down the line through several other websites. They now want to lend a hand in raising money for charity. Bless their hearts. Do you suppose that they've had a change of heart, and went lagit? They could actually plan to pass 1% of the money right through to the deserving charities! What a couple of sweetheart guys! I just want to mention that Skydive4Free is NOT associated with SkyRide. The owner called me yesterday and explained his business model to me. (The RD refered him to me.) He charges $45 to set up a tandem jump at a nearby DZ. The person(s) raising money have to cover the cost of the tandem jump and then everything else goes to a charity. He has written contractual relationships with both the charities and the DZs. He also pays the DZ in advance for the tandem jump. Stuart is a Brit living in the SD area now. He did this same business over in the UK for a number of years. He plans on changing his company to a charitable organization by the end of the year. Feel free to express your opinions on the business model, but please do NOT associate or mistake his business with SkyRide. He has no relationship with SkyRide. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 187 #23 July 17, 2007 Of all the business models out there, I find charity parasites among the most offensive. I will not give a nickel to United Way. The compensation packages of senior executives with that organization are on a par with Fortune 500, and the advertising budget is more than the GDP of some countries. Salvation Army, OTOH, puts its money where its mouth is. If you put a nickel in the drum, it goes to save a drunken bum. The Commandant of the Salvation Army in the USA brings down something like $35,000 a year. I contribute to organizations that take care of stray and abandoned animals, and have zip for an advertising budget. I participate in bicycling fundraisers where all the help is volunteer, the rest areas are stocked by donations, and all the money goes to the people who need it. I reiterate that if someone wishes to make a skydive, arranging it is a no-brainer. If someone wants to make a contribution to a charity, that can be done with little or no fuss. Who needs you? Just because your business model is not quite as sleazy as Skyride does not make it acceptable. The droppings of horses may not be perceived as being as bad as those of dogs, but they all fall into the same category when you step in them. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #24 July 17, 2007 Quote Feel free to express your opinions on the business model, but please do NOT associate or mistake his business with SkyRide. He has no relationship with SkyRide. . He merely defends their business practices.What you know is what you're told. What I know is what I spent at least 8 hours researching based on Stuart's response to an earlier post. I've posted my findings. If there is a contract with *any* national organization, demonstrate as much. "Standupforkids.com" is not a national organization, not really. Nor is the Child Abuse Prevention Foundation. Both aer very small local charities, that don't demonstrate their activities on their websites. As said before, I think this program deserves healthy skepticism; obviously others agree. I know what I was "told" in the initial contact with skydive4free, and I know what Stuart has said here. I know what he said on the phone, and so far, I've seen zero proof of these "national contracts." If skydive4free is wanting dropzones to participate in their program, aren't they obligated to demonstrate the benefits they bring to the dropzone, the skydiving community, and the charitable organizations they claim to represent? So far all we've heard is: ~"We represent national organizations. Spend a few minutes on the web researching these "national organizations" and you'll immediately find they're only San Diego-strong with nothing happening elsewhere. Additionally, charity ratings services rate these charities as exceptionally low (not of value to the community). Lookee here ~No one has seen our finished website Fine, that happens with many businesses, but is it fair to be asking for participation for an unfinished program? ~Booking services work great in the UK. We're not in the UK, and I for one, don't like the idea of a booking service inserting themselves into my business, representing that they have a DZ partner in my area when they have none. ~Booking agencies provide valuable services Like Skyride? ~Our Adventurize.com website isn't functioning yet and won't be for a while ...then why is it heavily built out, looks to be functioning, and has a significantly greater amount of information and option than does the skydive4free.com website? It looks, feels, smells, and acts just like a Skyride website. As a booking agency coming into this industry, it's inevitable that they'll be compared to Skyride, which is the best-known booking agency in this industry, and one most skydivers seem to hate. Jan, I'm surprised that you'd appear to accept at face value, what you're "told" when there is plenty of evidence that what is being said isn't the complete story. I'm sure Stuart is a great guy, but that doesn't mean his organization is doing grea things. Google their "charities." Ask for proof that they have contracts with national organizations other than the two listed on their website. What does the contract entail? Is it merely "we'll put a link to your site on our site?" Or is it substantive? If they're playing in our industry, don't we have the right and responsibility to not help create another Skyride? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Danger 0 #25 July 17, 2007 Very curious ... typed adventurize into google and the first website that popped up was www.adventurize.com. I went as far as the payment details in ordering myself a skydive. I was not going to provide my credit card. Seems to me like the website if fully functional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mnealtx 0 #7 July 13, 2007 Quote I'd enjoy reading the official Skyride Mission Statement! "Never give a sucker an even break", perhaps? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #8 July 13, 2007 I'm not so sure that skydive4free.com is connected to Skyride. Can someone who has the ability do a little investigation on the web site owners etc. I just got a call from the guy running this business, and he sounds lagit. Martin QuoteAnother angle to steel money! The Skyride boys are now posing as "helping" charities. My friends on the dzos.net email list tracked this info down. This site is not live yet, but look at what those sleaze bags at Skyride are doing now: http://72.34.43.224/%7Eskydiv4/ This is their test site. The live site WILL be www.skydive4free.com We know it's Skyride because of the whois contact info and some affiliates down the line through several other websites. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #9 July 13, 2007 That site is ran but the same people that run Adventurize.com They seem to be partnered with actual DZ's and list their locations.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuartjl 0 #10 July 14, 2007 Just to out the record straight I am the owner of the Skydive4free.com business and i would be happy to clear this rumour up. Skydive4free.com is a charity fund raising site that is legitimately AND YES, REALLY contracted to a a variety of major charity clients. I have designed the business and its work flow to accommodate the DZO to the maximum possible. The process is very simple: 1) The volunteer raises $500 for a nominated charity from amongst our list. We have agreements with causes like Y-ME National Breast Cancer Association, Stand Up For Kids, Arthritis Foundation and many others. 2) The volunteer chooses from a list of dropzones that we ADVERTISE on our site with all their contact info and a link back their site. 3) The DZ gets a booking and PAID IN ADVANCE 4) The Charity gets A MINIMUM OF $250 from the first $500 and then 100% of every penny thereafter. In most cases the charity gets almost $300 from the first $500 depending upon how much the DZ is charging. The whole point of the project is to bring awareness of skydiving to a new audience and raise much needed money for the charities that we work with. I would very much appreciate it if people would take time to check the facts before they shoot about making slanderous accusations. Apparently the evidence against us is someone told someone they'd tracked the IP address or something ridiculous. Amateur sleuths should stick to Murder She Wrote! Blue Skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #11 July 14, 2007 According to Whois: Adventurize.com +1.18003597046 Phone 181 Rea Ave El Cajon, California 92020 United States www.skydive4free.com stuart livett (619) 590-1166 Phone (619) 768-5510 Fax 181 rea ave el cajon, California 92020 United States [email protected] It's great that you are a legit business and not related to Skyride, but at the same time, understand that scams are a dime a dozen. I've looked at your website that is to be launched soon, and found it wanting for substantiated information. The "Adventurize.com" website looks to be very similar in nature to Skyride, even though it is clearly different. Personally, I don't feel it's a related issue, but one worth pondering. IMO, national service bureaus/brokerages don't serve a personalized sport like skydiving very well, and given the scam attitude that Skyride has brought to this industry, you can't fault people for being gunshy. Other than the integrity of being truly associated with a dropzone, what makes you different than Skyride? You're a national company wanting to broker skydives (and other adventure sports) for dropzones. Skyride started out exactly the same way, but got to the point of faking DZ locations and DZ websites. The charity angle may be a good one, and I like the idea. But your website doesn't list the charities you mention here other than Stand Up for Kids. (I'm looking at your DNS/skydiv4 website), and it offers one very small national charity "Stand Up For Kids" and one extremely small charity local only to San Diego. "Stand Up For Kids" hasn't filed an annual charity report (as required by law) since 2004 nor a financial report since 2005. The only active reporting Stand Up For Kids group is in San Diego at San Diego State University and they haven't modified their webpage since 2003, with their last listed meeting in 2004. The last news report related to Stand Up for Kids was listed on April 27, 2002. CAPF, which has two listings on your website, is a San Diego-based Christian organization that is very small, very local, whose last listed press release (echoed on your own website) was in 1999, and appear to be primarily a non-operational arm of the Women's International Center. WIC is predominantly a female awards/recognition group, it doesn't appear that they donate much back to the community. I'm not the person that compared, sleuthed, nor reported you being involved or the same as Skyride. But I'm not an "amateur sleuth" either. I did my research when your email was sent to me by my DZM and wasn't excited about what I found, or rather, didn't find. I was looking for a solid foundation behind what you're trying to accomplish, and found only two local charities in the San Diego area. If there is more information, it's not listed ANYWHERE on the web, as I spent a long time trying to find it. You might well be involved in something great, but by all appearances with a bit of time looking around your website, the websites of the two charities on your website, and the information you provided in your letter and this posting....all add up to a local benefit (San Diego) that you are asking DZ's across the country to fund. If it's all a wonderful thing, I'd be pleased to find myself having misread what you're attempting, and will be the first to admit it if I am. Bu something doesn't seem entirely up front. Maybe you're letting too much out too soon? The website needs finessing? More information? You can't blame people for being suspicious. Blame Skyride for screwing with the integrity of this industry if you want to be pissed at someone. Everyone wants to do charitable work, and if that's truly what you're doing...more power to you. But in the face of what your website offers and in the shadow of Skyride...skepticism is healthy, from where I sit. It's terrific that you and your partner are skydivers, but so are Ben Butler and party, so that can't carry much water. Skyride also says they're bringing new blood to skydiving. Obviously, people here don't agree. Now back to watching "Murder She Wrote." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuartjl 0 #12 July 14, 2007 OK, you make a number of points there. Firstly, Adventurize.com does not trade presently and there is no plan to see it operate at least for the remainder of this year. However, I think that main point that you are driving at is how booking agencies relate to the skydiving business. I understand the fuss over Skyride and I deplore their marketing tactics and over all standard in business ethics. That said, they are running a legal business that does very good trade with a lot of USPA dropzones. There is no reason why 3rd party booking agents can not work effectively for the industry as they do around the world. In the UK there are over 20 different booking agencies that all contribute millions of dollars of trade in to the dropzones that they deal with. They are generally very sound businesses and the benefit to the DZO is that can concentrate on running the business and simply watch the bookings come in. In addition, by some estimates over half of all the tandems done in the UK are for charity and it has raised millions in contributions to the extent that tandem skydiving is synonymous with charity donations. Skydive4free is bringing the model to the US and ther service will launch in a few days. PLEASE NOTE: The existing site at www.skydive4free.com is a place holder whilst the real site is completed. I thank you for your critique of the rough draft but no-one has seen the final site, including myself. The point of the business is to raise $10,000,000 for charity by 2012. No dropzones are 'funding' the operation or charities. Any discount that we get off the jumps goes directly to the charity. No one is being asked to accept bad business and the way that we treat the customer and the dropzones is exemplary. AS you have detected all my contact information is clearly posted on my websites and so far I have not received a single email or telephone call complaining or stressing over my plans and the vast majority of DZOs that I have spoken to have welcomed the project with open arms and wished us well. Skydive4free gives money to charites that we have real contractual relationships with, the dropzones get extra business at good rates and expands there operation. The sport of skydiving expands after a protracted period of shrinkage and every one benefits. Where is the problem? Imagine my dismay at being accused of being Skyride in disguise! I will be able to announce our full list of partnered charities when the site launches. You are entirely incorrect about both charities that you scorn in your post. Stand Up For Kids operates throughout the US (http://www.standupforkids.org/slocal.html) and has recently been congratulated by Congressman McDermott after they successfully lobbied Congress, follwoing a meeting with Nancy Polosi to pass new legislation to tackle the issue homeless youth in America (http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp070711a.shtml)Stand Up For Kids was chosen from a long line of charity applicants to be the American partner for Virgin Unite which is a major accolade. Skydive4free.com will be running an event where the CEO of the charity Rick Koca will make a jump. The Child Abuse Prevention Foundation is a very well respected charity in San Diego that does outstanding work on a tight budget which is why we are working with them. . We also have national agreements with the Y-Me National Breast Cancer Association and also represent the National Multiple Sclerosis Society which has 58 branches, Arthritis Foundation and many more. The nexus with skydiving is not an 'angle' as you put as we are funding much more important issues. I am very happy to answer any questions directly so please feel free to contact me if you are not convinced. Blue skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #13 July 15, 2007 Stuart, A lot of time was put into investigating what you're doing by myself and someone else at our DZ when you contacted us. While what you are putting together may be entirely above board, it doesn't appear to be entirely so. Getting a comment from anyone in Congress isn't a big deal. I personally have two letters of gratitude from members of Congress for work in my culture. Big deal. I guess I can use them when I run out of TP. Your charities as listed on *your* website that you are inviting people to visit, are exactly as I listed. http://www.standupforkids.org/sreports.html offers financial reports and as I said, they havent filed an annual since 2004 according to their own site. An operating budget of 2M nationwide won't pay the light bill. They appear to be a front for some other organization by the type of website they present. Maybe like yours, their website isn't complete, but without full information, what do you expect? Particularly when you label people that investigate what you're doing as "amatuer sleuths that should stick to Murder She Wrote?" You want our money, you want our participation, but you provide little substantive information. You're looking to more than quadruple their annual donation, but they're still a San Diego-based charity. This response departs entirely from the Skyride thread, so I'll close by saying that the Adventurize.com website, whether fully operational or not, smells exactly like Skyride. The only difference I can see is that you don't have fake listings for dropzones or adventures in cities you're not related to, but rather offer experiences in select cities. Everything else you're saying smacks of exactly Skyride. ~Bringing new blood to the sport ~Money for the DZ ~Skydiving for the masses ~We're a real business ~We're real skydivers ~"We're just trying to help everybody out and make a few bucks in the process" (Didn't Tony Soprano say that once?)The Adventurize.com website is significantly built out with greater depth than the Skydive4free.com website, so it seems odd that you'd say it's non-operational for the remainder of the year. I'm sure (just by the fact that you're posting here under your name) that you have ethics and values, unlike the Skyride creeps. But you've also got to step outside of your position and realize that you're flying in the burble of Skyride's current flight (if I might use relative terms). You'll have to figure some way of combating that image. Quote That said, they are running a legal business that does very good trade with a lot of USPA dropzones. There is no reason why 3rd party booking agents can not work effectively for the industry as they do around the world. The mere fact that you're defending Skyride at some level says enough for me. Between looking into your program, and seeing your endorsement of any of Skyride's practices, seals the deal for me. I think this industry and community has earned the right to be skeptical. BTW, the address you sent me to view is http://72.34.43.224/~skydiv4/ If that isn't complete, if it's lacking critical information, why share the link and be asking for money now? How about waiting til we can see some real-name endorsements, real proof of intent, and actual charitible institutions that are genuinely national vs small San Diego organizations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuartjl 0 #14 July 15, 2007 We are not asking for any contributions now as the site is not launched. Unlike Skyride I am putting together proper supply agreements with DZs and being completely open and honest about the project. That is why I am making personal phone calls to DZOs and going about this in the correct manner. If you have an axe to grind with Skyride then take it up with them. But please stop trying to suggest that I am in business with Skyride, or operate my business like Skyride or have any other parallel with Skyride whatsoever. Pease forgive me, but I am not entirely sure which DZ you are from. I have checked the emails that I have sent to all the people i have spoken to in Utah and it states very clearly that the service has not yet launched. I do not want your money, if you are willing to offer a discount to us on the basis of our EXTREMELY fair dealings with DZs then that is your perogative and every penny in discount benefits the charity directly. I have personally called every DZ that we deal and explained the program in detail to avoid this type of wild rumour. StandUp For Kids is a small charity that is based in San Diego but provides services nationally. They have been running for many years and are trying to expand. If you feel that they are a false or unworthy charity then please call Virgin and Levi and American Eagle Outfitters without delay and tell them about your concerns, maybe you're right and these sponsors have been duped! As I am based in San Diego it is reasonable to expect that some of the charities that we work with are based in San Diego. Is there a reason why you wouldn't want to help a San Diego childrens charity? Skyride has backed a lot of DZs into the corner and created an atmosphere of suspicion. This looks like the picture of an elephant and the mouse. All you have to do is step on the mouse and the problem goes away. Some posts in this forum have suggsted launching 'denial of service' attacks on their websites and other guerrilla tactics. Well that is a Federal crime and I do not support that action. Skyride survives because it does lots of business. It is a great shame that they treat the supplier and customer so badly when there should be no reason to do so. I'm sure that they would do a lot better if they turned into an ethical company. Let there be no doubt: I do not support Skyride or defend their ethics. Remember, lots of USPA DZs gladly take their business. The answer is that DZOs need to get together and stamp out the problem. DZOs do not speak with a common voice and my experience has been that Skyride is the 2nd most hated thing in skydiving. The most hated thing being the nearest competing dropzone! I have spoken to a great number of DZOs and when I ask about recommendations for other dropzones I get back very negative remarks in almost all cases. I recently had a DZO suggesting major safety problems with other local DZs and suggested i check the NTSB website. Skyride is usually the farthest thing from their mind. Skydiving has been on the decline in recent years in the US. This means that the USPA and its member DZs need to innovate to survive. What happens when fuel prices push the price of a tandem up to $300 (it will happen) Where is skydiving going to be then?? The rest of the world is working very well with outside booking agencies and can sort the wheat from the chaff. If you can embrace outside agencies and show them a way to make money from selling your services then you will have a very secure and successful business. This is true in all other activity businesses. Why does the motorsport experience business have such a good relationship with their agents and skydiving doesn't. Skydiving has many threats to its existence and any DZO knows the risks of the business. Booking agents are not one of the major risks. If Skyride are such a problem then get together and compete! In the meantime I and Skydive4free will continue to operate honestly and fairly. I am expecting to spend most of my time expanding our charity base, raising money, and maintaining good realtionships with our participating DZs. I hope that i don't have to spend much time defending damaging and false rumours about our/my integrity. I do sympathise with your skepticism as i have been a DZO and have been intimately involved in setting up and running dropzones in both the UK and the US so I know what you are facing. Let's work together to show how the relationship can work to everyones benefit and undermine Skyride from a position of moral and commercial strength. Stuart Livett Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hchunter614 0 #15 July 16, 2007 My question would be "What percentage of donations are you earmarking for administrative purposes?" Ie, what percentage are you keeping (not giving to the charity or the DZ)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #16 July 16, 2007 I think this need to be split from this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stuartjl 0 #17 July 16, 2007 Our fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #18 July 16, 2007 QuoteOur fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. This is a teeny bit too much like Skyride for my liking. What do you bring to the party? If I want to make a donation to a charity, I make a donation to the charity. If I want to participate in an activity, I find people who conduct the activity and strike a bargain with them. It is not very hard - so long as there are not posers trying to insinuate themselves into the deal. It is less fuss to make a donation and arrange to make a tandem without your help than it is with it. Cutting yourself for a piece of the action, while adding negative value, is quite in keeping with the Skyride business model. Don't worry, they can explain why they are not goniffs either. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #19 July 16, 2007 QuoteI do sympathise with your skepticism as i have been a DZO and have been intimately involved in setting up and running dropzones in both the UK and the US so I know what you are facing. Let's work together to show how the relationship can work to everyones benefit and undermine Skyride from a position of moral and commercial strength. 1. We're not the UK. Completely different social model. Completely different charitable model. 2. I'm not interested in partnering with *any* third party that has inserted themselves between me and my customer. Some of what you have to say sounds like "OK, my model is somewhat like Skyride, but Skyride is my main competition and so they suck. Work with me and the third-party/booking partnership will suck less." I don't want a relationship with smoeone that is trying to take a piece of my pie that will "suck less." I'd rather see the USPA get a reasonable proposal for promotion of the sport by a party that would work on behalf of the sport, rather than some San Diego charities and their own pocket. I'd prefer that the USPA be the body that brings dropzones together, not a third party. I'd prefer that the USPA is marketing the sport, not a third party that believes it's OK to have a nationwide booking service inserted between me and my customer. I don't see much of an upside. Skydiving isn't hurting because people don't know about skydiving. Skydiving is hurting because people are motivated to do other things with their time such as rock climbing, camping, water sports, BASE, motorcycles... The pie is only 'so big' and we'er all fighting for the same financial slice. Skydiving is hurting because of the general perceived image of the sport. Skydiving is hurting because it's expensive. Skydiving is hurting because it's not the "sport du jour" that it has been off and on in the media. Discovery Channel "Stunt Junkies" and similar exposures will (and are) doing a lot more for skydiving than Skyride or any charitable work could possibly imagine, and DZO's aren't spending a dime for that sort of promotion. Sorry Stuart, but the more I hear of what you're doing, the more convinced I am that we've done the right thing by stepping back from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #20 July 16, 2007 QuoteSorry Stuart, but the more I hear of what you're doing, the more convinced I am that we've done the right thing by stepping back from it. I would agree as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 July 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteOur fess are fixed at $45. There are no other cost other than the cost of the tandem. Everything else goes to the charity. This is a teeny bit too much like Skyride for my liking. What do you bring to the party? If I want to make a donation to a charity, I make a donation to the charity. If the average fundraising result is 500-1000$, that 45$ is a huge piece and the tandem is a gigantic piece. If 50-60% reach the charity and they blow half of it too, not much good being done. I personally wouldn't contribute to someone's fundraising effort to give them a free jump. I don't see any proper linkage. The charity marathons (and now half marathons) and triathlons are equally troubling. With Team in Training you typically raise $3000, in exchange for which you get airfare/hotel/race entry at a nice location. That could easily be $1000 of it. My gf contributed the true costs of the trip to Hawaii when she did Honolulu via Aids Marathon. Short of that pledge, I wouldn't contribute to a person's "life changing quest" bullshit. I'd much rather contribute directly. That person can run a local event. All that aside, so long as this organization doesn't steal website designs, make fictional dropzones, fradulently take possession of 800 numbers, or lie to their customers about the nearest dropzone, all luck to them. If people want their charitable contributions to fund someone's recreational needs, not my concern. Might be for the IRS, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #22 July 17, 2007 QuoteAnother angle to steel money! The Skyride boys are now posing as "helping" charities. My friends on the dzos.net email list tracked this info down. This site is not live yet, but look at what those sleaze bags at Skyride are doing now: http://72.34.43.224/%7Eskydiv4/ This is their test site. The live site WILL be www.skydive4free.com We know it's Skyride because of the whois contact info and some affiliates down the line through several other websites. They now want to lend a hand in raising money for charity. Bless their hearts. Do you suppose that they've had a change of heart, and went lagit? They could actually plan to pass 1% of the money right through to the deserving charities! What a couple of sweetheart guys! I just want to mention that Skydive4Free is NOT associated with SkyRide. The owner called me yesterday and explained his business model to me. (The RD refered him to me.) He charges $45 to set up a tandem jump at a nearby DZ. The person(s) raising money have to cover the cost of the tandem jump and then everything else goes to a charity. He has written contractual relationships with both the charities and the DZs. He also pays the DZ in advance for the tandem jump. Stuart is a Brit living in the SD area now. He did this same business over in the UK for a number of years. He plans on changing his company to a charitable organization by the end of the year. Feel free to express your opinions on the business model, but please do NOT associate or mistake his business with SkyRide. He has no relationship with SkyRide. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #23 July 17, 2007 Of all the business models out there, I find charity parasites among the most offensive. I will not give a nickel to United Way. The compensation packages of senior executives with that organization are on a par with Fortune 500, and the advertising budget is more than the GDP of some countries. Salvation Army, OTOH, puts its money where its mouth is. If you put a nickel in the drum, it goes to save a drunken bum. The Commandant of the Salvation Army in the USA brings down something like $35,000 a year. I contribute to organizations that take care of stray and abandoned animals, and have zip for an advertising budget. I participate in bicycling fundraisers where all the help is volunteer, the rest areas are stocked by donations, and all the money goes to the people who need it. I reiterate that if someone wishes to make a skydive, arranging it is a no-brainer. If someone wants to make a contribution to a charity, that can be done with little or no fuss. Who needs you? Just because your business model is not quite as sleazy as Skyride does not make it acceptable. The droppings of horses may not be perceived as being as bad as those of dogs, but they all fall into the same category when you step in them. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #24 July 17, 2007 Quote Feel free to express your opinions on the business model, but please do NOT associate or mistake his business with SkyRide. He has no relationship with SkyRide. . He merely defends their business practices.What you know is what you're told. What I know is what I spent at least 8 hours researching based on Stuart's response to an earlier post. I've posted my findings. If there is a contract with *any* national organization, demonstrate as much. "Standupforkids.com" is not a national organization, not really. Nor is the Child Abuse Prevention Foundation. Both aer very small local charities, that don't demonstrate their activities on their websites. As said before, I think this program deserves healthy skepticism; obviously others agree. I know what I was "told" in the initial contact with skydive4free, and I know what Stuart has said here. I know what he said on the phone, and so far, I've seen zero proof of these "national contracts." If skydive4free is wanting dropzones to participate in their program, aren't they obligated to demonstrate the benefits they bring to the dropzone, the skydiving community, and the charitable organizations they claim to represent? So far all we've heard is: ~"We represent national organizations. Spend a few minutes on the web researching these "national organizations" and you'll immediately find they're only San Diego-strong with nothing happening elsewhere. Additionally, charity ratings services rate these charities as exceptionally low (not of value to the community). Lookee here ~No one has seen our finished website Fine, that happens with many businesses, but is it fair to be asking for participation for an unfinished program? ~Booking services work great in the UK. We're not in the UK, and I for one, don't like the idea of a booking service inserting themselves into my business, representing that they have a DZ partner in my area when they have none. ~Booking agencies provide valuable services Like Skyride? ~Our Adventurize.com website isn't functioning yet and won't be for a while ...then why is it heavily built out, looks to be functioning, and has a significantly greater amount of information and option than does the skydive4free.com website? It looks, feels, smells, and acts just like a Skyride website. As a booking agency coming into this industry, it's inevitable that they'll be compared to Skyride, which is the best-known booking agency in this industry, and one most skydivers seem to hate. Jan, I'm surprised that you'd appear to accept at face value, what you're "told" when there is plenty of evidence that what is being said isn't the complete story. I'm sure Stuart is a great guy, but that doesn't mean his organization is doing grea things. Google their "charities." Ask for proof that they have contracts with national organizations other than the two listed on their website. What does the contract entail? Is it merely "we'll put a link to your site on our site?" Or is it substantive? If they're playing in our industry, don't we have the right and responsibility to not help create another Skyride? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danger 0 #25 July 17, 2007 Very curious ... typed adventurize into google and the first website that popped up was www.adventurize.com. I went as far as the payment details in ordering myself a skydive. I was not going to provide my credit card. Seems to me like the website if fully functional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
