Delta and tracking

[swoopdog 0]

As a nOOb I'm just wondering about the practical differences between tracking and the use of a delta. In what circumstances would you use one another???

If your going to live in FEAR, why live at all!!!!!

[AggieDave 6]

You should really really talk to your instructors about this. You're going to hear a lot of different ideas in this thread and not all of them will be right.


With that said, here's my opinion.

Delta is a stepping stone, you learn that before you learn how to fully track, since a full on track is reasonably unstable and you have to learn how to fly the position before you can really fly it stable and comfortably, thus delta.

I have used a delta like position on skydives before...they were actually tracking dives that were going too slow to actually track.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kingbunky 3]

what i think of as a delta is what you would use to dive down to a formation, legs out, arms back and out to the sides, but above your body and you keep some kind of an arch. a track (again, as i understand it) is legs out, arms back to the sides but pushing slightly lower than the body, and a flat or slightly de-arched body and is meant to clear away from a formation prior to deployment.

best bet, as usual, talk to your instructors.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[AggieDave 6]

Yeah, that's another use of teaching a delta...we call that "swooping" and don't call it a delta, though. *shug* TomAto/tomato.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pilotdave 0]

Delta is just a slow, inefficient tracking position. It's taught to students because it's more stable than a full track. You'll use it until you get good at it, then never again.
Dave

[masher 1]

You can also use a delta to get out of a spin.

.

I've put myself into a really fast spin a few times, then just relaxed into a delta position to stop the spin.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[kallend 1,683]

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Delta is just a slow, inefficient tracking position. It's taught to students because it's more stable than a full track. You'll use it until you get good at it, then never again.
Dave

Dunno about that. I've used what is basically a delta when an early diver from a trail plane on a 100+ way. Use it to cover a lot of horizontal distance with more vertical drop than a flat track.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Frenchy68 0]

Watching BASE videos, it seems amazing how "graceless" the tracks look. Arms out, legs somewhat spread, knees slightly bent...
Yet I was also told that it's more efficient (screw grace when you have to get away from a big wall, uh?) by BASE jumpers...
[Warning]NOT AN ADVISE, JUST REPORTING WHAT I WAS TOLD[/WARNING]

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[AggieDave 6]

BASE is not skydiving and skydiving is not BASE. Some things translate, some things don't. They have a special skill set that differs from skydiving skill sets due to special needs.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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BASE is not skydiving and skydiving is not BASE. Some things translate, some things don't. They have a special skill set that differs from skydiving skill sets due to special needs.

Does that mean that BASE jumpers are "special needs" jumpers? Maybe they can get the gov't to recognize them?

Their special needs, to me, are getting jumpsuits with the extra-baggy crotch...because they've got SERIOUS BIG BRASS ONES!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Frenchy68 0]

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BASE is not skydiving and skydiving is not BASE. Some things translate, some things don't. They have a special skill set that differs from skydiving skill sets due to special needs

Good point. However, out of curiosity, how a "BASE type" track affect separation if performed on a big way?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[AggieDave 6]

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Good point. However, out of curiosity, how a "BASE type" track affect separation if performed on a big way?

Two things, 1, I'm not a BASE jumper and 2, I'm not a bigway jumper.

My understanding is that BASE jumpes are looking for a postion that gives them movement and stability. A full on track position isn't stable especially at low airspeeds. For instance, while skydiving, it is possible to track so hard that you stall your track and you start to buffet from the lack of airspeed.

So using a BASE type track on a bigway may be what you need if you're in the base of the formation and you might run someone over, or may get you in serious trouble if you're on the outside and expected to track your nuts off and land in the next county.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Frenchy68 0]

Thanks for the useful reply!

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Scrumpot 1]

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I've used what is basically a delta when an early diver from a trail plane on a 100+ way. Use it to cover a lot of horizontal distance with more vertical drop than a flat track.

BINGO! Someone give this man a lollipop!

Tracking & Delta should be considered 2 entirely different things (once off "student status"). A Delta is indeed plenty useful when the objective is to cover more vertical distance than horizontal. A TRACK should ALWAYS be "flat" and with as much movement along a HORIZONTAL axis as possible.

After only 2 jumps though, you are being taught only one thing at a time right now for a reason. Your instructors should bring you along as to where, how and when to learn and then use each of these.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[riggerrob 564]

There are two ways to teach tracking.

Old-school coaches "shape" from delta. The disadvantage with this method is that few people learn how to flat track.

New-school coaches (i.e. Arizona Airspeed) "shape" from dead-spider/slow fall/reverse arch.
If you watch videos featuring Craig Girard, you will notice that his first move on break off is to cup air. While cupping air, Craig starts to turn away from the center of the formation. Once pointed away from the formation, Craig extends his legs and tracks out of the video while most other jumpers are still turning. This technique puts Craig above and outboard of everyone else. Craig's height advantage may be less than a second, but every second counts near deployment altitude and it makes it easier for him to see other jumpers below him.

[mjosparky 3]

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you will notice that his first move on break off is to cup air. While cupping air, Craig starts to turn away from the center of the formation.

A lot of people forget to turn slowly while grabbing air. If you turn fast and immediately go to a track position, you will loose a bunch of altitude before the track becomes effective.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[swoopdog 0]

Thanks all for the useful information!!!
Just trying to get a scope on everything for the future
cheers

If your going to live in FEAR, why live at all!!!!!

[kallend 1,683]

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you will notice that his first move on break off is to cup air. While cupping air, Craig starts to turn away from the center of the formation.

A lot of people forget to turn slowly while grabbing air. If you turn fast and immediately go to a track position, you will loose a bunch of altitude before the track becomes effective.

Sparky

That has not been my experience. I was taught much the same method as riggerrob decribed, and I find that turn rate can be as fast as you like once you have the technique learned, without any loss of altitude.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mjosparky 3]

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you will notice that his first move on break off is to cup air. While cupping air, Craig starts to turn away from the center of the formation.

A lot of people forget to turn slowly while grabbing air. If you turn fast and immediately go to a track position, you will loose a bunch of altitude before the track becomes effective.

Sparky

That has not been my experience. I was taught much the same method as riggerrob decribed, and I find that turn rate can be as fast as you like once you have the technique learned, without any loss of altitude.

Re-read what I wrote, it pretty much says what Rod did except it was addressed to a new jumper still trying to learn the technique.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jumpwally 0]

where do you get this video? thanx

wally

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[craig_b 0]

Thank You!! I'm newly A Licensed so in reality I'm just off student status and I learned the delta quite well. Delta is for vertical descent and I am desparately trying to learn true tracking, the art of gaining horizontal distance quickly. My "track" is so damn vertical !! So I'm still in a Delta. My jumpmaster said arms back, palms down, de-arch but get the butt up! head up too! I get to try it this Saturday!

_________________________________________
once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.

[AggieDave 6]

Think de-arch like a scared cat.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mfnren 0]

I don't know if I agree with you guys about tracking and delta position be totally different. Of course you want a full track on break off to gain as much seperation as possible, But I think of delta and full track as "degrees" of tracking-from slow to fast. There is no single tracking position. On any dive where you are tracking you will probably use many different body positions for varing degrees of speed depending on what you are doing. Why classify it as 2 seperate things?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I don't know if I agree with you guys about tracking and delta position be totally different. Of course you want a full track on break off to gain as much seperation as possible, But I think of delta and full track as "degrees" of tracking-from slow to fast. There is no single tracking position. On any dive where you are tracking you will probably use many different body positions for varing degrees of speed depending on what you are doing. Why classify it as 2 seperate things?

A delta is used to fly to a point below and in front of you. A track is used to get maximum distance possible for any given altitude. You're right, they are similar, just as a hard arch and a boxman and a mantis are similar, but the goals are different and they feel different. We should include the no-lift dive in all this as in "body positions with your arms back and your head pointed down low."

With that said, not many people track as well as they could. Track like your life depends on it 'cause, well . . . it does.

[mattjw916 2]

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Track like your life depends on it 'cause, well . . . it does.

This is never more true until you first see someone "go low" right beneath you as pull-time approaches. That's when all those solo tracking dives that people look at you strangely for doing pay off in a big way.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080