drdive 0 #1 December 22, 2004 I just finished AFF, have 4 post AFF jumps, and am trying to stay current, since my dropzone in WA is closed for most of the winter. I was in LV, and went to Skydive Mesquite to take my girlfriend for a tandem, and to do a jump. Photographer, tandem instructor and girlfriend exited the 182 first, I followed in 6 or 8 seconds. Did a forward roll, got stable, feeling great, altitide 9k. Started feeling wobbly, wondering why, flipped to my back, got stable again, checked alti - 6k. Thought "maybe should pull early since having a ittle stability problem". Reached for ripcord, wobbled, turned, whoops - back on my back - wondering again why am I so damn unstable? Flipped back to my belly, then started an uncontrolled tumble. Tried to get stable, remembered first rule - "pull", and pulled. After opening, checked alti - shit - 1500ft. Where the hell is the airport????? Saw the golf course, which I knew was next to the dz, yelled "fore", and zoomed over a green and landed nicely in the fairway. After landing, I noticed my jumpsuit, that had a zipper from the chest down to the left ankle had blown open the zipper from the left foot to my crotch, creating an asymmetric "sail". In retrospect, I had noticed the zipper had not completely closed by my left knee. The 120 mph must have blown the zipper open, and with my lack of experience, affected my stability. Lessons learned: 1. Get my own jumpsuit 2. The instructor was right - you fall FAST when unstable 3. If you are unstable, and nearing pull altitude - PULL ( I wasted precious altitude trying to get stable again) Oh well, lesson learned, bought beer, and ready to do better nest time. This sport is so awesome - and the experience shared on this forum is so helpful. Feel free to beat me up. Ed in Spokane"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #2 December 22, 2004 My only criticism is that you landed on the fairway and not the green. Very heads-up skydiving. Great awareness. Solid decision making. Excellent recall. Yep. I'd jump with you any day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #3 December 22, 2004 QuoteFeel free to beat me up. You ought to be spanked! What was the wingload on that zipper? Did you wear a helmet? Were you briefed on this possible outcome? What was the brand of the jumpsuit and who did your pre-jump inspection? Type of altimeter? Did you sign a waiver? Was there any damage to the golfcourse? "For want of a nail the kingdom got lost..." O well, if not you: Somebody ought to be spanked! BTW: Lesson one isn't 'get your own jumpsuit' QuoteIn retrospect, I had noticed the zipper had not completely closed by my left knee. ... 'You guys have another suit for me? This one has a zipper that is about to come apart...' Glad you are OK. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #4 December 22, 2004 Ha ha!! :-) Not so heads up - or I would have pulled earlier. I am responsible for my own zipper - in fact, I even thought before the jump - "what happens if this son of a bitch blows open at 120 mph?" You should have seen the looks from the whuffo golfers. I landed safe, I learned, I had a nice walk back to the DZ. Ed"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #5 December 22, 2004 Just out of curiosity - stand-up landing or PLF? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #6 December 22, 2004 Stand up. Then a nice wave to the whuffo's on the green. "We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #7 December 22, 2004 Lol, I wonder how often the golfers have had that happen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jose 0 #8 December 22, 2004 Damn, many hundred jumps from now, you coulda swooped the water hazards! I had a suit come undone when I had 80 jumps. It did the same thing....seriously unstable and flipping around. Going to your back was a good idea to get stable again.....just pitch as soon as you go back to belly so it doesnt happen again (unstable part that is). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skolem45 0 #9 December 22, 2004 Ok, here's mine: My first jump after AFF. Reasonable exit. Got into a spin fairly early on, followed the "5 second rule", - pulled. High. As in, 9k ft. Now the upper winds turned out to be pretty stiff. After a few minutes it was pretty obvious I wasn't going to make it to the dropzone. Was dreading landiing in some wooded hills for a few minutes. Fortunately, lower winds were more manageable (duh, they wouldn't let me jjump otherwise.) Made it to the town between the DZ and the hills. Found an empty lot of land. Up till the very last moment thought I would land with the fence between my legs (would be nasty, as the fence turned out to have barbed wirre.) Lay there for 10 seconds or so just to feel the ground and to be thankful for being alive and well. Hey, if all it takes to walk off from landing is cliimbing some barbed wire fence, it;s not so bad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites D22369 0 #10 December 22, 2004 Feel free to beat me up. *** what for?..... people that are willing to admit a mistake........and say: this is what happened, this is what I did wrong, this is what I can do to prevent it from happening again, this is what I learned....... these are the people that do well in this sport. Ya jumped....Ya lived, -- lesson learnedRoy PS: we will be jumping all winter at Richland Wa if you are inclined to come over and play. It wont be quite as warm as Nevada, but we manage to have lots of fun.They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pccoder 0 #11 December 22, 2004 From when you decided to pull at 6k and then finally got under your canopy at 1500 feet is a long time. In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k. That's very low, especially for someone with so few jumps. I am actually suprised you are not getting more flack for that. The tumbling, etc. certainly helped you lose more altitude quickly than you would normally. However, with you experience level you might not want to wait so long to pull next time. I am very happy you finally saved yourself, but it could have easily gone bad. Congratulations and living to jump another day. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Freeflysmiley 2 #12 December 22, 2004 Just out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver. Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver. Any thoughts people?-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #13 December 22, 2004 QuoteDamn, many hundred jumps from now, you coulda swooped the water hazards! NEVER a good idea, and I would NOT EVER suggest this! When landing off, land CONSERVATIVELY, and land SAFELY. Seriously. ...I am not "flaming" you personally Jose, but I would not even joke about this (which is probably all you are doing) ...at least I hope this is not a serious suggestion! I have seen too many friends (more than one QUITE EXPERIENCED, and actually a competitive, HIGHLY COMPITENT "swooper" otherwise) Chow in trying just this during an off-DZ landing. The litany of very serious injuries, and even at least one FATALITY that I know of, has been resultant of exactly this type of "stunt" gone bad. An off DZ landing is not the time to do this, nearly ever, PERIOD. You just NEVER KNOW what your obstacles may be on the edge of that water hazard. Or "fun" looking drainage levy, or fire-break "swoop lane" etc., etc. off the DZ. Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of your LZ (ie: ON THE DROPZONE or well-scouted PRE-PLANNED landing area), ALWAYS land as CONSERVATIVELY and safely as possible, wings level, and be prepared instead to PLF! Land safely FIRST, then if you do want to swoop, get back to the dropzone (in one piece) get packed up, get on the next load and go swoop! Because then you CAN, because you did not fuck yourself up trying to pull this skewed rationale and are now because of it sorry, busted up, or WORSE! Sorry to sound like such a "Nazi" on that. But like I say, I have seen too many friends actually think just like this ...and I don't think it should be even REMOTELY alluded to, and should be in fact DISCOURAGED.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeepDiver 0 #14 December 22, 2004 [QUOTE]In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k[/QUOTE] Were you jumping a rig with a cypress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #15 December 22, 2004 QuoteJust out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver. Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver. Any thoughts people? Personally, I wouldn't want to risk my last chance on an unstable deployment when it's not necessary. If you open your main and it's tangled, you're slowed down and have time for emergency procedures (provided you were altitude aware and not low as well as unstable). Then you'll be deploying your reserver in a heads up, stable, low speed condition, like it's designed for. If you open your reserve and it's tangled, well, you're screwed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Freeflysmiley 2 #16 December 23, 2004 Your attitude is logical, I find it hard to fault, yet this is what we were taught, which also makes sense..... Maybe the logic is you have a far greater chance of a main entanglement which may not be chopable and cause two messed canopies, whereas if u go for silver you have a much much better chance of a clean deployment whilst tumbling? But i know what u mean about using up your reserve. Bill you know your stuff, any comments? Any Brit instructors want to add their thoughts? Cheers freeflysmiley-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jose 0 #17 December 23, 2004 Perhaps I should have done this after I was done. Oh yeah.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craig_b 0 #18 December 23, 2004 I'm a new skydiver myself and must agree with many of the experienced ones here. You were lucky this time and I am surprised the S&T officer didn't talk with you. "A" License minimum opening is 3000 and I got my tail chewed by a Load Organizer, the S&T officer and my friends for a low pull at Perris Valley,CA. You might consider what my best skydiver friend asked..... "At that altitude just how long do you have before you hit the ground?" At 1500 I figure about 7 seconds, right? I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that. A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life. I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely. Blue Skies _________________________________________ once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #19 December 23, 2004 Woulda worked. Thanks for clearing that up! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #20 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy only criticism is that you landed on the fairway and not the green. Not funny. You wonder why the neighbours hate us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drdive 0 #21 December 23, 2004 "were you jumping a rig with a cypress" Yep!"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drdive 0 #22 December 23, 2004 <I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that. A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life. I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely. >> Craig, Thanks for your comments. Yep - I did get counseled by the S&TA, and deserved it. That's what I love about this forum - so many are willing to share their screw ups and help us all learn from them. Regards, Ed"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites callahan 0 #23 January 4, 2005 Glad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #24 January 4, 2005 QuoteGlad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull ! Yeah, but that is half the problem of getting one. It will start to replace being heads up if you aren't carefull. If you aren't heads up already the ditter becomes your version of heads up, till it fails and you die. Not in specific response to this persons situation but rather in general I don't think people should use them till they are very good at altitude awareness on their own.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites YahooLV 0 #25 January 5, 2005 ok, did someone chip you to the green, since you missed? When in doubt, PULL! http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
D22369 0 #10 December 22, 2004 Feel free to beat me up. *** what for?..... people that are willing to admit a mistake........and say: this is what happened, this is what I did wrong, this is what I can do to prevent it from happening again, this is what I learned....... these are the people that do well in this sport. Ya jumped....Ya lived, -- lesson learnedRoy PS: we will be jumping all winter at Richland Wa if you are inclined to come over and play. It wont be quite as warm as Nevada, but we manage to have lots of fun.They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #11 December 22, 2004 From when you decided to pull at 6k and then finally got under your canopy at 1500 feet is a long time. In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k. That's very low, especially for someone with so few jumps. I am actually suprised you are not getting more flack for that. The tumbling, etc. certainly helped you lose more altitude quickly than you would normally. However, with you experience level you might not want to wait so long to pull next time. I am very happy you finally saved yourself, but it could have easily gone bad. Congratulations and living to jump another day. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #12 December 22, 2004 Just out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver. Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver. Any thoughts people?-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #13 December 22, 2004 QuoteDamn, many hundred jumps from now, you coulda swooped the water hazards! NEVER a good idea, and I would NOT EVER suggest this! When landing off, land CONSERVATIVELY, and land SAFELY. Seriously. ...I am not "flaming" you personally Jose, but I would not even joke about this (which is probably all you are doing) ...at least I hope this is not a serious suggestion! I have seen too many friends (more than one QUITE EXPERIENCED, and actually a competitive, HIGHLY COMPITENT "swooper" otherwise) Chow in trying just this during an off-DZ landing. The litany of very serious injuries, and even at least one FATALITY that I know of, has been resultant of exactly this type of "stunt" gone bad. An off DZ landing is not the time to do this, nearly ever, PERIOD. You just NEVER KNOW what your obstacles may be on the edge of that water hazard. Or "fun" looking drainage levy, or fire-break "swoop lane" etc., etc. off the DZ. Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of your LZ (ie: ON THE DROPZONE or well-scouted PRE-PLANNED landing area), ALWAYS land as CONSERVATIVELY and safely as possible, wings level, and be prepared instead to PLF! Land safely FIRST, then if you do want to swoop, get back to the dropzone (in one piece) get packed up, get on the next load and go swoop! Because then you CAN, because you did not fuck yourself up trying to pull this skewed rationale and are now because of it sorry, busted up, or WORSE! Sorry to sound like such a "Nazi" on that. But like I say, I have seen too many friends actually think just like this ...and I don't think it should be even REMOTELY alluded to, and should be in fact DISCOURAGED.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeepDiver 0 #14 December 22, 2004 [QUOTE]In fact, it sounds like you finally pulled around 2k[/QUOTE] Were you jumping a rig with a cypress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 December 22, 2004 QuoteJust out of interest in England, we're taught if we're completely unstable, and can't recover (by tracking) fo whatever reason, to pull silver. Reason being spring loaded RPC goes for clean air, and a far lower chance of an entanglement with an out of control skydiver. Any thoughts people? Personally, I wouldn't want to risk my last chance on an unstable deployment when it's not necessary. If you open your main and it's tangled, you're slowed down and have time for emergency procedures (provided you were altitude aware and not low as well as unstable). Then you'll be deploying your reserver in a heads up, stable, low speed condition, like it's designed for. If you open your reserve and it's tangled, well, you're screwed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #16 December 23, 2004 Your attitude is logical, I find it hard to fault, yet this is what we were taught, which also makes sense..... Maybe the logic is you have a far greater chance of a main entanglement which may not be chopable and cause two messed canopies, whereas if u go for silver you have a much much better chance of a clean deployment whilst tumbling? But i know what u mean about using up your reserve. Bill you know your stuff, any comments? Any Brit instructors want to add their thoughts? Cheers freeflysmiley-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jose 0 #17 December 23, 2004 Perhaps I should have done this after I was done. Oh yeah.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craig_b 0 #18 December 23, 2004 I'm a new skydiver myself and must agree with many of the experienced ones here. You were lucky this time and I am surprised the S&T officer didn't talk with you. "A" License minimum opening is 3000 and I got my tail chewed by a Load Organizer, the S&T officer and my friends for a low pull at Perris Valley,CA. You might consider what my best skydiver friend asked..... "At that altitude just how long do you have before you hit the ground?" At 1500 I figure about 7 seconds, right? I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that. A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life. I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely. Blue Skies _________________________________________ once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #19 December 23, 2004 Woulda worked. Thanks for clearing that up! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #20 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy only criticism is that you landed on the fairway and not the green. Not funny. You wonder why the neighbours hate us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #21 December 23, 2004 "were you jumping a rig with a cypress" Yep!"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #22 December 23, 2004 <I am glad you posted because it made me re-think my incident, remember it and go over what I learned from it. I don't ever want to put myself in that situation again and I do all I can to know every step of my dive before I get in the plane. I was told that a lot of skydiving must be automatic and that pulling at the correct altitude is part of that. A new DZ is the hardest for us newbies. We don't have the normal altitude awareness ques that we are use to at our home DZ such as the terrain, roads, buildings to judge by. I always jump with someone very familiar with a new DZ and that someone must also be someone I trust explicitly with my life. I am very glad to know you are okay and get to jump another day. Take care my friend and remember..... Pull, Pull Altitude, Pull Stable and Land Safely. >> Craig, Thanks for your comments. Yep - I did get counseled by the S&TA, and deserved it. That's what I love about this forum - so many are willing to share their screw ups and help us all learn from them. Regards, Ed"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callahan 0 #23 January 4, 2005 Glad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #24 January 4, 2005 QuoteGlad you're okay ! Weird stuff with the zipper blowing open . I'd get a ditter as soon as you can . They're not too replace being heads up but when your attention wanders ....they scream ! Wake up and pull ! Yeah, but that is half the problem of getting one. It will start to replace being heads up if you aren't carefull. If you aren't heads up already the ditter becomes your version of heads up, till it fails and you die. Not in specific response to this persons situation but rather in general I don't think people should use them till they are very good at altitude awareness on their own.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #25 January 5, 2005 ok, did someone chip you to the green, since you missed? When in doubt, PULL! http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
