Tandems over AFF students

[mrbiceps 0]

I know how your friend feels mate same thing happened to me. It is absolutely stupid in my opinion. All the dz does is loose aff students who in the long run will spend more money at the dz than a 1 off tandem. I started my aff with 7 others. 6 of them got pissed off and went to another dz. they will never return. i would have done the same thing had i not paid upfront. Now i have my A licence i will onlt go back to that dz to do my b rel jumps and then i doubt if i will ever go back.

[popsjumper 2]

So...for those that pre-paid and didn't get to jump...

Did you get your money back from Ben & Cary?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rhys 0]

That is absolutely outragous.

If thye are not prepared to make some time for students then they shouldn't offer the service.

I could understand if it was a small cessna DZ struggleing to make ends meet, but a large multi turbine DZ that is flat out is obviously doing well or they wouldn't be flat out.

This type of service is inexcusable.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[faulknerwn 36]

I always tell students as well - show up first thing in the morning. I know its hard to drag yourself out of bed, but my dz is often really slow in the morning and its easy to get students out (and that's when the winds are slowest.) Tandems always seem to get craziest and backed up mid-day, and that's when all the AFFs like to show up.

So my hint of the day to frustrated AFF students - get out of bed early before the mad crush of people arrives!

[airathanas 0]

I agree - they should show up early. Light winds, no waiting right?

Wrong. I took a student on a coach jump last weekend who showed up at 8:30am and waited until 5pm to make a jump (he had to complete a jump with an instructor before I could jump with him; I'm only a coach). DZs don't always start buzzing early in the morning, and by time they do, the winds have picked up and instructors are too busy (or don't care) to take a student.

When an instructor is both a tandem instructor and an AFF instructor, they can make more $$ doing 3 tandems in the time it takes to do an AFF jump. Don't get me wrong- I realize that I am generalizing and that not every single tandem/AFF instructor is like this.

Yes I'm jumping to conclusions and No I don't know what the exact issue was at the DZ your friend was trying to jump at. I'm sorry that this was his experience, but from what I've seen, it is all too common.

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[Orange1 0]

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That is absolutely outragous.

If thye are not prepared to make some time for students then they shouldn't offer the service.

I could understand if it was a small cessna DZ struggleing to make ends meet, but a large multi turbine DZ that is flat out is obviously doing well or they wouldn't be flat out.

This type of service is inexcusable.

I've been quite surprised by this thread. I did AFF at a small(ish) cessna DZ, albeit one that has a healthy tandem business, where the TIs are often also the AFFIs and indeed 2 of them were pilots too. Despite all that, my experience and what I have seen since is that AFF students get at least as much priority as tandems when it comes to getting them on loads, despite the time involved in briefing and debriefing.

Some of the comments here seem to imply that for instructors who can do either tandem or AFF, that they choose to do tandem to make more money...I do think that's a bit sad, but surely it is up to manifest to manifest the loads and then allocate the instructors, camera etc to fit in with that? (That's the way it works at my DZ anyway.)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[azakeus 0]

This is true but only if you just turn up, the point being this guy had been given a specific time to turn up at.
If you had an appointment at the dentist you wouldnt turn up at opening and hang around to see if you could get in early.

"If your chute malfunctions, you've got the rest of your life to fix it"

[faulknerwn 36]

The way I see it is - I always try and schedule my doctor/dentist appts at 8-9 AM. That way I'm sure they are not backed up. Practically every time I had an afternoon appointment, I waited for what seemed like forever because things had gotten backed up.

So if that place does appointments for AFF (mine doesn't), make the appointment for 9 AM. You're far more likely to get to go quickly.

[chrismgtis 0]

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Hi matt,

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He was scheduled to go in at noon

Almost every up-poster has taken the side of the dz or has come with the 'whys' that this guy did not get to jump.

Some may actually be valid.

Bottom line: the guy had a jump scheduled.

Anyone wonder why we are losing students?

JerryBaumchen

The same thing happened to me when I was a student and I complained about it on here. Then I apologized about it later. I understand it better. And besides, I kinda feel like if they need to push a student aside to keep the cash coming to keep the DZ open then so be it.

I guess at the same time they could've squeezed one student on a plane, but who knows.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Guru312 0]

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Anyone wonder why we are losing students?

Considering how many curious whuffos have been treated in a number of recent threads...and the DB Cooper thread...it doesn't surprise me.

The DB Cooper thread, as inane and stupid that much of it is, has attracted well over 100,000 views in two separately started threads.

I don't mind answering the same really stupid questions that I've been asked for 50 years if it means more people in the sport. AFF, Tandem or S/L what's the real difference if they help a DZO make a payment or add some value to their operation.

I incorporated a five minute marketing pitch into the process of handing First Jump Certificates to my students where I asked them to sell jumping every time they could.

Every little bit of positive interplay helps the sport. It's unfortunate that many people seem to be purchasing a "SkyGod" T-shirt before they have 50 jumps.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[chrismgtis 0]

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people seem to be purchasing a "SkyGod" T-shirt before they have 50 jumps.

There are shirts that say SkyGod? Does that simply mean "Sky God" or is there a story behind that?

Skydivers will make t-shirts for damn near anything though. They were selling "Have you met Howie?" shirts at the Skyfest boogie this year. I had seen the guy a hundred times but didn't really know his name and was trying to figure out what the deal with that was.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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There are shirts that say SkyGod? Does that simply mean "Sky God" or is there a story behind that?

I'm going to make the probably foolish assumption that this is a serious question.
Skygod is NOT a compliment. It is applied to those who think they know everything. They don't. The true "Gods" in this sport are humble approachable kind generous giving (and on and on and on) people who love this sport and do their best to help it grow and improve. They are the second most important reason I love this sport.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Redline165 0]

I guess i got lucky ending up where i did. I jump at Raeford and drive a reasonable distance to get there. Everytime i show up Tony is quick to say whats up and i get my name on my list. Ive never had to wait more then an hour to get with an instructor (aside from weather holds) When i was in AFF i asked one day before i left which day the next weekend would be the best to come for some jumps and he told me he will always make room for AFF students.

Hell I was there on a sunday at noon for 3 AFF jumps and it was SLAMMED with at least 2 tandems w/video every load and 2 more waiting on the ground. I got all 3 jumps in with a detailed de-brief after every jump. (one of which was with 2 instructors)

that said... i'm happy where im at, and have no desire to go anywhere else. so, if you get to Fustrated, Hop a ride to Raeford, i'm sure they will learn ya!