Best way to improve canopy skills?

[Deisel 35]

Anyone out there have any advice for different techniques for learning to fly your canopy? Aside from the obvious (ask questions, take a course, etc). It's extremly difficult to determine canopy responses to inputs without anything relative in the sky. CRW is not common on my drop zone and I don't think that I have the balls to try it. So what are the options?
Are there any drills or exercises? How do you judge what the canopy is doing without being close to the ground?

D

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[chrismgtis 0]

You can do basic CRW. Just don't get too close. Someone at your DZ probably wouldn't mind doing it. I admit it is kind of a pita to find someone for that though.

Also might want to try a canopy course. Unfortunately Scott Miller isn't doing the course anymore right now, but Brian Germain is. Talk to your DZM or Brian and try to get him to come down.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Andy9o8 0]

If you're stil at Raeford, you're at an outstanding DZ. Gotta believe someone there is well-qualified to give you canopy coaching, especially if you work out some kind of $$ arrangement with them (beer plus slots would be great if you can get it...). And if your military obligations permit it, I'd recommend zipping on down to The Farm, or Z-Hills, or DeLand for a couple days, with canopy coaching pre-arranged.

[shropshire 0]

Become a paraglider pilot!!

You'll get way more [quality] air time

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jsaxton 0]

add 1000 jumps

[shropshire 0]

<>

Pull higher (ask first). Then using a digital altimeter do a series of exercises (pick a heading, check for traffic & be aware of you altitude etc... then do fast & slow 360s) remember how much height each took.

Do this again with different amounts of Control input (Brakes, Riser, Weight-shift + combinations)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

To add to what chrismgtis said:

On the cheap...
Plan the canopy flight so that both of you will know what is being done and in what order.

Turns:
Get a buddy to do a high H&P with you. You fly in near proximity. The buddy floats while you do a 360 turn. You'll get an idea of how much altitude you lose and the radius/diameter of the turn adn the like.

Get back on level and do it again with each different type of turn...flat turns, braked turns, flare turns, etc.

Brakes:
Fly level with the buddy. Apply half brakes. You'll get an idea of how your descent rates drops and forward speed slows down.

Get back on level and do it again with different brake applications.

The good part is that he will get a good view of what's happening too!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kallend 1,625]

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Anyone out there have any advice for different techniques for learning to fly your canopy? Aside from the obvious (ask questions, take a course, etc). It's extremly difficult to determine canopy responses to inputs without anything relative in the sky. CRW is not common on my drop zone and I don't think that I have the balls to try it. So what are the options?
Are there any drills or exercises? How do you judge what the canopy is doing without being close to the ground?

D

Which skills would that be? The skills to make a cool swoop and impress the spectators, or the skills to stay alive and uninjured?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skyborne 0]

The best basic canopy skills info I found is in a book The Parachute and Its Pilot by Brian Germain.

After I recently fractured my spine in a hard landing I ordered this book to better understand exactly what I did wrong and to better understand the dynamics of the whole landing process. This has really good stuff in it for both beginners and swoopers. This book hit the nail on the head in my case with its discussion on forward surge when toggles are raised too quickly.

[Deisel 35]

Not interested in swooping (yet). I think that popsjumper got pretty close to what I'm looking for. But I also see a lot of canopy manipulation done by swoopers, tandem instructors, etc, that raise plenty of questions.
Why do swoopers keep toggles stowed until just before flaring? They are obviously not doing control checks in the air, as taught in AFF.
What's the correct way to learn to land on rear risers, without breaking something? Shouldn't this be taught during AFF (not just in theory)?
TIs frequently stall and dive their canopies to make spot on landings. I've only seen 1 person do it on a sport canopy. Why?
And before anyone else says it, I'm getting Germain's book this week.
I was also pointed to billvon's downsizing checklist. I'm not downsizing, I love my 190, but there are some no shit, quantifiable skills outlined there.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[skybytch 259]

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Why do swoopers keep toggles stowed until just before flaring?

None of the swoopers I know do that.

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What's the correct way to learn to land on rear risers, without breaking something?

By practicing it, over and over, up high. Just like everything else related to canopy flight.

[jumper03 0]

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Why do swoopers keep toggles stowed until just before flaring?

They are not keeping the toggles stowed. During the swoop, they transition from rear risers to toggles and frequently the canopy will 'pop' which may seem like they are just popping the brakes.

The whole surging business I can explain next time you're out. And if Ian is reading this - yes, I will be using sunglasses/croakies for a learning aid

Scars remind us that the past is real

[Deisel 35]

Thanks for all the enlighntment. Next time, I'll ask the coffee cup next to me.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[jumpwally 0]

if you are serious, buy about 50 or so hop n pops,,,and jump back to back as often as you can,,with specific goals in mind...

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[mnealtx 0]

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Thanks for all the enlighntment. Next time, I'll ask the coffee cup next to me.

What's with the smartass reply? She gave you valid answers - perhaps not with the amount of explanation you wished, but they were still valid.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kkeenan 13]

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Thanks for all the enlighntment. Next time, I'll ask the coffee cup next to me.

I agree with Mike. It seems that your question was answered quite well. Sarcasm comes off really dumb when coming from a Hundred Jump Wonder asking a silly question. Maybe Skybitch would be willing to give you her screen name. It seems that you deserve it more.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Skydivesg 6]

OK I can't stand it anymore.

I thought sure someone would have asked this question by now.

So here goes.

Have you taken a "well taught" canopy course yet?

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[Deisel 35]

The reason for the smart assed response was because the answer was because it was about as useless as a free gas card last weekend. But all bullshit aside, if you're not going to give an explanation to answer the question, why bother to reply?
"Silly question?" Is that how you respond to newer jumper's questions on your DZ? I was under the impression that the entire purpose of these forums was to engage each other in a 'discussion' of the topic at hand. If the subject matter is too low brow for you, no response is needed. But some of us hundred jump wonders do give a shit about continuing the learning process. And darn it, some questions do come up while I'm not on the DZ where there are people around that can provide an answer. And the last time I checked, you Sky Gods did not have a monopoly on intelligence or conversations. Crap like that is exactly plenty of people have left the sport. But hell, how could I possibly know that? I've only got 100 jumps.
And to answer the last question, no I have not taken a course. There have not been any available.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[Boeris 0]

I took a beginner canopy course put on by Doug Forth up in Alberta. It was very educational, he's a true professional. I just wish I could have stayed for the advanced course...
I think the most important thing I learned all day was really the main focus of the beginner course he taught, which was slowing your decent rate, flat turns, etc.. Byt the end of the day we were required to do a cross-country flight. It was roughly 5 miles and we definitely had the wind at our advantage, cause it was bookin! Exited at 6k' and I made it to the holding area above DZ (5 miles) with 3k'+ to play with! hehe

www.theflystyle.com

"When once you have tasted flight you will always walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward: for there you have been and there you will always be." -L.D.

[Broke 0]

just to add my 2 Cents

DON'T FUCKIN DIE!!!


Also the reason that Lysa gave shuch short answers to your question is there are a lot of resources here not just in the forum that you could read. Check out the safety articles.

Also do a search.

Another way to learn a little more is to hang out at the DZ after the jumping in done. I have learned a lot of good stuff around the bonfire.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[Boeris 0]

Another way that I have found to help with canopy control is to do some ground launching. Although, it is quite dangerous, if you find the right hill with no obsticles, you have good wind and hill slope it can be very cool. I would highly suggest having someone who is experienced with you. There is a pretty steep learning curve, but once you're out there all day running up and down the hill you'll notice it's really not that hard. The key is to find the right place with the right amount of wind.

www.theflystyle.com

"When once you have tasted flight you will always walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward: for there you have been and there you will always be." -L.D.

[jtnesbitt 0]

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Another way that I have found to help with canopy control is to do some ground launching. Although, it is quite dangerous, if you find the right hill with no obsticles, you have good wind and hill slope it can be very cool. I would highly suggest having someone who is experienced with you. There is a pretty steep learning curve, but once you're out there all day running up and down the hill you'll notice it's really not that hard. The key is to find the right place with the right amount of wind.

What? Thats like telling someone to BASE jump so they can practice their PLFs. Everything you can do from a ground launch you can do in the sky. If you want more canopy time just pop higher so you can practice.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Anyone out there have any advice for different techniques for learning to fly your canopy? Aside from the obvious (ask questions, take a course, etc). It's extremly difficult to determine canopy responses to inputs without anything relative in the sky. CRW is not common on my drop zone and I don't think that I have the balls to try it.

You can play with other people without any contact involved. Send some one out the door and have them take a few seconds of delay before opening. Fly down to them, and then descend below them so they can play catch up. Repeat.

Always turn right to avoid a collision. Don't get too close until you know what you're doing. Etc.

[Boeris 0]

I knew it wouldn't take long to get flamed...

Though I think you are waaaay off on your analogy, I definitely don't think someone who has no clue how to fly a skydive canopy should try this. Having a 100+ jumps, I really don't see a problem in attempting this IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. I mean, I went with an experienced ground launcher and spent a lot of time outside of the harness kiting the canopy before I took off running down the hill...
Please do not flame me, I think I made it pretty clear that you need to take precautions and to not get in over your head. If you don't think I was clear, how about this: If you ground launch and do not know what you are doing you WILL die!

www.theflystyle.com

"When once you have tasted flight you will always walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward: for there you have been and there you will always be." -L.D.

[jtnesbitt 0]

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I knew it wouldn't take long to get flamed...

Though I think you are waaaay off on your analogy, I definitely don't think someone who has no clue how to fly a skydive canopy should try this.

First off I wasn't flaming you, I just don't understand your reasoning but to each there own. The problem is someone that admittedly doesnt have canopy skills posted here to get some solid advice and help and you suggested they try a really dangerous activity that involves a lot more factors for risk. You corrected yourself in your second post and said someone needs to have the experience and know what they are doing....which just reflects my originals thoughts that this little tangent shouldnt have been in this topic in the first place.

On a side note I have nothing against ground launching and would love to try it. Unfortunately Ohio doesnt have the best terrain.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero