getting down the landings...

[aprincess365 0]

So I graduated the AFF, BUT I AM STILL HAVING THE PROBLEM WITH THE LANDINGS! I know when I am supposed to but apparently it isn't hitting me when I actually flare. Does anyone have any idea on how to get me to 'get it' and flare at the right time? I know certain parts of the DZ are the height I should flare at. Any help is good help... Thanks

*~J~*

[likestojump 3]

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So I graduated the AFF, BUT I AM STILL HAVING THE PROBLEM WITH THE LANDINGS! I know when I am supposed to but apparently it isn't hitting me when I actually flare. Does anyone have any idea on how to get me to 'get it' and flare at the right time? I know certain parts of the DZ are the height I should flare at. Any help is good help... Thanks

*~J~*

Keep jumping, you just need more practice landing ...

[pontiacgtp00 0]

I practiced judging my altitude by getting up on a ladder and looking down at the grass about 15 feet below me. I memorized the detail that I could make out in the individual blades of grass. I then would go up to about 25ft, then look down and do the same as I did at 15ft. Then when I'd make a skydive, I'd look down at the detail in the grass upon landing. I'd also quickly look at the wind blades, and some other objects near the landing area such as cars. Basically if you can see the roof of a 30 foot tall hangar, you're too high! Or If your looking DOWN at a wind blade that's 15 feet tall, you're still too high. If you're looking up at a 15 foot tall wind blade....PLF!!!

If you're on radio, then try to look down at the ground when your instructor tells you to flare. So you can get an idea of what the ground looks like at flare altitude.

May or may not work for you, but you can always practice PLF's while you got the ladder out!

[fishawk 0]

Don't look down look more out its easer to judge out than down, try and jump with some wind no wind landings are the hardest.

[NiteQwill 0]

Don't worry, you'll get it.

Flaring is a judgement call based on winds and canopy.

The ladder thing I've heard before. Maybe try stairs, too.

Oh, and congrats on being solo now!

"Fail, fail again. Fail better."
-Samuel Beckett

[GaryRay 0]

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I practiced judging my altitude by getting up on a ladder and looking down at the grass about 15 feet below me. I memorized the detail that I could make out in the individual blades of grass. I then would go up to about 25ft, then look down and do the same as I did at 15ft. Then when I'd make a skydive, I'd look down at the detail in the grass upon landing. I'd also quickly look at the wind blades, and some other objects near the landing area such as cars. Basically if you can see the roof of a 30 foot tall hangar, you're too high! Or If your looking DOWN at a wind blade that's 15 feet tall, you're still too high. If you're looking up at a 15 foot tall wind blade....PLF!!!

If you're on radio, then try to look down at the ground when your instructor tells you to flare. So you can get an idea of what the ground looks like at flare altitude.

May or may not work for you, but you can always practice PLF's while you got the ladder out!

good job trying to get someone to fixate on a target, although you are right about using objects to judge your height. definately wont have very good landings with that advice, that and by staring at the ground you will have no situational awareness for other jumpers or a change in wind conditions. look out at the horizon, the trees the wind indicators, anything and everything and after a while it will just come to you, you will know when you need to flare, how much to flare, etc. etc. etc.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[Baksteen 84]

*don't look straight down
*look -forward- not to the sides!

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Nutz 0]

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*don't look straight down
*look -forward- not to the sides!

People always told me not to look down but I always have. I don't look straight down more where I am going, and you have to be aware of what is going on around you as well.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[Baksteen 84]

Certainly - but I was talking specifically about the flare/landing itself.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[ufk22 32]

Windsocks or wind blades can be the best reference. You'll probably end up walking further, but a windsock out in the open is the best reference. Set up to LAND 50' or so downwind of the sock. Figure out the height of the sock and look at the top of it while landing. This does 2 things. It gives you a reference and it keeps your eyes up where they should be. Remember to adjust your flair height for the given wind speed. After a while move your target further away and keep at it. You should be able to ween yourself from this reference after 5-15 jumps.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[aprincess365 0]

yeah it was definately a no wind day lol

[SivaGanesha 2]

Quote

So I graduated the AFF, BUT I AM STILL HAVING THE PROBLEM WITH THE LANDINGS! I know when I am supposed to but apparently it isn't hitting me when I actually flare. Does anyone have any idea on how to get me to 'get it' and flare at the right time? I know certain parts of the DZ are the height I should flare at. Any help is good help...

One thing that my instructors said to me that helped me a lot was to be sure to spend at least 5-7 seconds in full flight--no turns, no low "corrections" unless absolutely unavoidable, no braking--before beginning the flare. The reason is that it takes a canopy about 5-7 seconds after completing an input before it regains full flight characteristics. In the flare you are essentially converting forward speed to lift so you want as much forward speed as possible when you begin the flare.

Of course to have the luxury of that 5-7 second period before the flare you need to first have flown a good pattern so you are properly set up on final and can focus on the landing.

Also continue to fly the canopy until both you and the canopy are on the ground--sometimes people start the flare but do not follow through for whatever reason.

You can also ask people at the DZ who see you land--even though you are no longer on AFF you should still be able to get feedback from instructors or experienced jumpers regarding your landings.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[ladydyver 0]

the other thing to do is have someone video your landings. it gives you visual feed back on your flaring technique ---- also shows you if you aren't completing your flare.....and at what height you are starting your flare. It is a timing thing that is more difficult for some to get down than others.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[pontiacgtp00 0]

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good job trying to get someone to fixate on a target, although you are right about using objects to judge your height. definately wont have very good landings with that advice, that and by staring at the ground you will have no situational awareness for other jumpers or a change in wind conditions. look out at the horizon, the trees the wind indicators, anything and everything and after a while it will just come to you, you will know when you need to flare, how much to flare, etc. etc. etc.

I didn't say fixate on some object when your 150 feet off the ground. When I say try looking down at the ground, I'm talking about during flare time. Not when you turn on your downwind/base/final whatever. Your head should be on a swivel just as if you were driving a car. If your on a collision course with someone when your only 20 feet off the ground which would be better, make a screaming low turn or collide with them. Better yet, don't be that close to anyone when your that low. Looking out at the horizon at 15 feet off the ground never did much for me, maybe because I jump in a mountainous area. Better off just looking down to see how high you are off the ground. Maybe I'm just good with perspective.

[twodarhythm 0]

I just graduated AFF too. During my first few jumps I'd look at the ground and hit it hard every time! Since i've started looking ahead at the horizon, i have had consistent (not perfect) stand up landings! You've gotta just feel it! Dont look at the ground!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Get video and coaching to see what you're doing wrong. When to flare, for me, is more of a time and speed thing than an altitude thing. The closer you get to the ground, the faster the apparent speed. That is how I judge my flare.

Using a staged flare can often help when you're working on your timing. Ask an instructor.

Most people with bad landings flare too early, but not all the way. Once again, video will show if that is your problem.

[pontiacgtp00 0]

A lot of different views being thrown around here, none of them entirely incorrect. Mostly misinterpreted. See my artwork: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2075/landingflare.jpg

Looking out at the horizon just doesn't cut it for me. Maybe it does for others, maybe it doesn't.

[LloydDobbler 2]

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A lot of different views being thrown around here, none of them entirely incorrect. Mostly misinterpreted. See my artwork: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2075/landingflare.jpg

Looking out at the horizon just doesn't cut it for me. Maybe it does for others, maybe it doesn't.

I used to say the same thing...but then learned the value of it. When you're jumping on a windy day and coming straight down, that 'looking down at where you're going to land' forward perspective doesn't work quite so well.

A trick I learned was to glance to my side at the windsock. Once I saw I was coming in line with it, I knew it was time to start my flare.

To the OP, however, that might not be the best approach. Best talk to your instructors and people who've seen your landings. You'll dial it in, eventually...we've all been there, and all have some dirt/grass stains on our suits to prove it.

Signatures are the new black.

[ladydyver 0]

we've all been there, and all have some dirt/grass stains on our suits to prove it.

i have multiple -

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[popsjumper 2]

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So I graduated the AFF, BUT I AM STILL HAVING THE PROBLEM WITH THE LANDINGS! I know when I am supposed to but apparently it isn't hitting me when I actually flare. Does anyone have any idea on how to get me to 'get it' and flare at the right time? I know certain parts of the DZ are the height I should flare at. Any help is good help... Thanks

*~J~*

I'll offer this:
Flaring a canopy is a dynamic process, not a binary one. If you are going from full flight to full brakes, that's a binary process and only works well when you flare at exactly the right altitude for the wingloading, canopy make and model, and wind conditions at THAT time.

A dynamic process involves braking on a continuous stroke flying the canopy all the way to the ground.

A staged flare (two-stage, three-stage, etc.), as mentioned earlier, is one step towards that dynamic process.

I liken it to driving a car and approaching a stop sign.
In real life, we don't use a binary process to brake for a stop...we don't run up to the sign and jam on the brakes. What we do is apply some brakes as we near the sign and gently apply more brakes as we get nearer...a dynamic process.

In canopy flight, we apply some brakes and as we approach the ground we apply more and more brakes until we get to the point of bleeding off that forward speed to zero just as we touch down (come to the stop sign). Keep in mind that full brakes should be applied before touch-down in most cases...particularly in low-wind conditions. In higher winds, full brakes may not be necessary as you will get more apparent lift and your forward speed will be more quickly reduced.

(All you physics majors can discuss the theory and numbers behind lift and wind conditions and all that at your leisure.)

Low wind conditions can be likened to dry roads...we can apply brakes a little harder/faster. High winds are more like rainy, slick roads where brake application can be more gentle.

You can see the association through student training where many DZs teach FJC landings using the binary (full flight to full brakes) technique. They can do that because of wind speed limitations for students.

One last word. As you already know, the ground will be coming at you much faster than that stop sign so don't be lazy and delay the start of your flare too long.

One last, last word. Try to wean yourself, as quickly as you can, from the dependence on using ground references like flags, buildings, etc. for flare height. Train yourself for the sight picture of ground approach...the mention of standing on a ladder is a good way to give yourself that sight picture of what height you are at as you approach landing. One of these days you may land off and those familiar references are not going to be there.

Hope this helps.

Fly safe!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

Bloody good answer

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BrianSGermain 1]

I can help, this is my specialty. I am teaching a course at Skydive Chicago this weekend, but have many others on the schedule all over the world.

The book "The Parachute and its Pilot" will be of assistance as well. Worked hard on that one.

You can also give me a call for a pep talk:
(845) 264-5298

Brian

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com