shah269 0 #1 June 28, 2009 I'm sorry but I have very limited info, which I know is bad. But at my DZ we have two student rigs and of which one is 5sqft bigger than the other and I weigh 190lbs. I noticed I could land the smaller one better than the larger one, the large one has a very long glide slope....as it should. But....it's only 5sqft. Is that enough to cause such a huge difference between the two or is it all in my head? ShahLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 June 28, 2009 There's something you're not telling us - the types of canopies. If you had two canopies of the same type and design - a 5 sq. ft. difference would be nothing. However, when they make various sizes of the same canopy type, they spread the sizes further apart than that. Therefore, I suspect you're talking about two different canopies, which may have different design aspects. And that could indeed make a big difference. So, it's probably not the size that's accounting for what you're feeling - it's a different design that is doing it. Not all canopies are created equal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #3 June 29, 2009 John, Roger mate, there is a lot i'm not telling you because honestly I don't know. When I go back to the DZ I'll get the info. But one seemed to come in hot on landings while the other loved to float.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfbum5412 0 #4 June 29, 2009 QuoteI'm sorry but I have very limited info, which I know is bad. But at my DZ we have two student rigs and of which one is 5sqft bigger than the other and I weigh 190lbs. I noticed I could land the smaller one better than the larger one, the large one has a very long glide slope....as it should. But....it's only 5sqft. Is that enough to cause such a huge difference between the two or is it all in my head? Shah No there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. **Asking a question like this is just asking to wake up the Dorkzone canopy geeks and be forced to listen to a 1 page theory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolimfalling 0 #5 June 29, 2009 more that likely i would just say the wind was a little bit stronger on one jump vs the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #6 June 29, 2009 Quotemore that likely i would just say the wind was a little bit stronger on one jump vs the other. wrong - between nearly identical canopies that would not impact "how floaty" they were. It would only impact the forward speed relative to the ground. the OP was obviously jumping completely different canopies, and as such they have different flight characteristics. They may also use different measuring methods which could make them more like 30sq ft apart :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 June 29, 2009 Quote No there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. Or if you're a fat-boy and small changes of canopy size jump up your wingloading.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 292 #8 June 29, 2009 QuoteQuotemore that likely i would just say the wind was a little bit stronger on one jump vs the other. wrong - between nearly identical canopies that would not impact "how floaty" they were. It would only impact the forward speed relative to the ground. the OP was obviously jumping completely different canopies, and as such they have different flight characteristics. They may also use different measuring methods which could make them more like 30sq ft apart :) Actually, wind would exactly explain the difference in perception of a neophyte, as he described. The "floaty" canopy with the "longer" glide ratio could be the one with no wind. Similar (same) canopy with 6 mph head wind would be easier to land and would seem not to have that much glide ratio. Not saying that is the case here, since we don't have the information, but it could be. Another factor, assuming that these are not zero-P canopies, could be that one has a lot more jumps on it than the other, and is more porous / ragged-out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #9 June 29, 2009 QuoteNo there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. You should probably not work in a gear rental position. What you've just said is pretty darn bad analysis. There is a WORLD of difference between canopies from different manufacturers even if the listed square footage is the same and even if they are the same cell counts and aspect ratios.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,364 #10 June 29, 2009 Possible factors making that much of a difference: Measuring method - it may be a lot more than 5ft difference. Cell count - 7 vs 9 Planform - rectangular vs semi-elliptical Material - ZP vs F1-11 (not all that likely, but this is student/rental gear) Age/wear - brand new vs ragged out. No one of these is going to make all that much difference, but stack 2 or 3 of them together..."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #11 June 29, 2009 I'm very sorry to get everyone riled up. But it's a student rig, 9 cells very basic, probably a bunch of jumps on both of them. And I noticed the greatest difference in the final, both days the wind speed was low, how low I don't recall, but the larger of the two I seemed to float much longer on my final and with the smaller one seemed to descend at a much steeper angel. And in my engineering brain I couldn't help but ask, is 5sqft really that much? Never the less, I think I'll just stick with one of the rigs from here on out. Just until I can figure out what the hell I'm doing. The last jump with the smaller of the two rigs I was 100ft above a power line on my final. Not smart but I wasn't use to her falling so fast on me.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #12 June 29, 2009 QuoteI'm very sorry to get everyone riled up. This is nothing. I'm surprised that nobody has yet said probably the most important point on this topic... Did you ask an instructor or coach at your DZ these questions? That would be a much better place to ask. They know you, your skill level and the gear you're jumping. You know them and that they are probably qualified to give you a good answer. They're right there and can give you an answer on the spot rather than waiting for someone you don't know on the other side of the world guess an answer that may or may not have anything to do with your situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #13 June 29, 2009 I'll ask my instructor and packer when I see them again later this week.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmills0705 0 #14 June 29, 2009 Did the winds change noticeably from one jump to the next?Kim Mills USPA D21696 Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 June 29, 2009 QuoteDid the winds change noticeably from one jump to the next? Not by much. The larger one seemed to just float way more down low. But I could be wrong, I only have 6 jumps. So from now on I'm just going to stick with one rig and not bounce between the two.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 June 29, 2009 QuoteSo from now on I'm just going to stick with one rig and not bounce between the two From an engineering standpoint, this would be the best bet. The reason being that your skills need to be a constant in an experiment between two canopies. Of course there are other variables, the wind, the temp, the humidity, the type and condition of the two canopies, but those are easier to account for if you can perform the same way every time. Another thing to keep in mind is that everyone gets lucky or unlucky from time to time, and that you want to put a few jumps on each canopy, and see what results end up repeating themselves, and what was an anamoly. Now let's forget about engineering, and focus on reality, you've only got 6 jumps, and it will be quite a while before you become a reliable machine for testing canopies. Also, as a student, you will be jumping many different models of canopies in the next 30-ish jumps, probably the most diversity you'll ever have in a 30 jump block. Do your best to pay attention to how the different canoipies turn, flare, and glide, all the while taking note of the winds for that day. Keep in mind that there is no 'best' canopy, but there is a 'best for you'. If something seems to work for you, and it feels good, than use that as your standard and compare everything else to that. If it's better, keep jumping it, if not, go back to what works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfbum5412 0 #17 June 30, 2009 QuoteI'm very sorry to get everyone riled up. But it's a student rig, 9 cells very basic, probably a bunch of jumps on both of them. And I noticed the greatest difference in the final, both days the wind speed was low, how low I don't recall, but the larger of the two I seemed to float much longer on my final and with the smaller one seemed to descend at a much steeper angel. And in my engineering brain I couldn't help but ask, is 5sqft really that much? Never the less, I think I'll just stick with one of the rigs from here on out. Just until I can figure out what the hell I'm doing. The last jump with the smaller of the two rigs I was 100ft above a power line on my final. Not smart but I wasn't use to her falling so fast on me. Hey Shah269, did I call it or did I call it? Haha, you woke up the DORKZONERS and they are in full effect,in your thread my friend. Take care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Will_Evo 0 #18 June 30, 2009 Id say the first thing to do before your next jump, would be to learn what type of canopy you are jumping, and what type of reserve and size you have. Kind of important info to know -Evo Zoo Crew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #19 June 30, 2009 Quote Id say the first thing to do before your next jump, would be to learn what type of canopy you are jumping, and what type of reserve and size you have. Kind of important info to know -Evo +1! Yeah no kidding! I didn't know there were two different sizes. But fro now on I'll try to stick to one just to keep things inline.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #20 July 1, 2009 Problem solved! The smaller of the two is significantly older and thus more pours. Hence the quicker decent from 100ft.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterboy3412 0 #21 July 1, 2009 When I started my AFP i was jumping a 230 sq ft. now im jumping a 169 sq ft. you want to slowly downsize your canopy once your skills and confidence level can handle it.Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #22 July 1, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm sorry but I have very limited info, which I know is bad. But at my DZ we have two student rigs and of which one is 5sqft bigger than the other and I weigh 190lbs. I noticed I could land the smaller one better than the larger one, the large one has a very long glide slope....as it should. But....it's only 5sqft. Is that enough to cause such a huge difference between the two or is it all in my head? Shah No there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. **Asking a question like this is just asking to wake up the Dorkzone canopy geeks and be forced to listen to a 1 page theory. Yes there is... If one is a 7 cell such as a spectre or a triathlon, and the other a nine cell like a Silhouette. The 7 cell has a steeper glide angle and the 9 cell a less steep one but often more forward speed IME. Similar canopy sizes of course Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfbum5412 0 #23 July 2, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm sorry but I have very limited info, which I know is bad. But at my DZ we have two student rigs and of which one is 5sqft bigger than the other and I weigh 190lbs. I noticed I could land the smaller one better than the larger one, the large one has a very long glide slope....as it should. But....it's only 5sqft. Is that enough to cause such a huge difference between the two or is it all in my head? Shah No there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. **Asking a question like this is just asking to wake up the Dorkzone canopy geeks and be forced to listen to a 1 page theory. Yes there is... If one is a 7 cell such as a spectre or a triathlon, and the other a nine cell like a Silhouette. The 7 cell has a steeper glide angle and the 9 cell a less steep one but often more forward speed IME. Similar canopy sizes of course Oh yeah, missed that one... No there is no difference, except if you're comparing a xbraced vs. square, 9 cell vs. 7 cell, or the canopy is small, like something at or below 100 sq. ft. **THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rlucus 0 #24 July 2, 2009 So what you're saying is it makes a difference in more instances than not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 July 2, 2009 Quote So what you're saying is it makes a difference in more instances than not? What he's saying is that he had no idea what he was talking about in the first place and now he's trying to cover.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
