Skydivings deadly idea.. COOL VIDEO.

[rhino 0]

Cool video... I've seen things happen over and over again in the 8 years I've been skydiving. Most if not all of the bad ones were directly related to someone getting the idea of cool video.

When I hear it at the DZ I run.. I've heard it a few times and watched people die right in front of me. I don't want to see cool video unless getting it was an accident.

WFFC 2003. I was in the back right hand seat of the helocopter. Someone on the ground wanted cool video. That was the last decision he ever made before I watched the main rotor strike him 4 times across the face and chest. I thought of his cool video while cleaning the blood off of my jumpsuit that night.

I've seen swoops where someone wanted cool video. I don't need to tell you how they have ended up.

Recent events we all know of could have possibly been the result of cool video. What's cool is staying alive to jump again. What is cool is speaking up so accidents don't happen. What is cool is having the balls to do what is right even if you are a newbie.

If you see someone on your DZ.. ANYONE.. Even a 30 year veteran with 10,000 skydives and a million hours of video time say the words COOL VIDEO point him to this thread. Ask him or her to please reconsider and think of the consequences.

People get complacent after years in the sport and thousands of jumps. Pilots and jumpers alike. The WFFC2003 is a good example.

I have seen pilots agree to things just across that thin line because of peer pressure. Because of cool video. We have a responsibility not only to each other but the pilots that fly us to altitude on a daily basis putting their livelihoods on the line not to ask them to do things that can kill us and get them suspended. Us signing a waiver does not give us the green light to ask the pilot to do stupid things. DO NOT ask our jump pilots to shoulder the responsibility of our cool video.

Be smart! Use good judgement! If you are going to be stupid do it yourself away from other skydivers and the planes... Let's watch out for each other, young and old, new or veteraned and speak up when we hear someone say the words cool video or ask something that is just across that safety line and in the almost safe zone. Spending too much time in the almost safe zone will up your meeting time with Segador..

We don't want that..

Please be safe and speak up from now on. Our sport, our friends and our lives depend on it..

Rhino

[DrewGPM 0]

amen to that! Great post.

The WFFC incident...i always wondered how the people on that load were affected by it. Sorry you had to endure that.

[blueskyserenity 0]

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amen to that! Great post.

The WFFC incident...i always wondered how the people on that load were affected by it. Sorry you had to endure that.

Ditto that. I honestly can't even imagine...

I like coconuts. You can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun!

[obelixtim 103]

Well you've got it all figured out...haven't you...

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[feuergnom 22]

you got a post on this deleted already in incidents - why don't you give it a rest?

otoh: yep, cameras are deadly weapons. maybe we can discuss this in s.c.?

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[Beerlight 0]

Great fucking post. Rhino's, not yours.......EFS.

[rhino 0]

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you got a post on this deleted already in incidents - why don't you give it a rest?

If the Moderators thought this was the same post it would have been deleted. You are incorrect in your assumption. Apparently you didn't read them both. This is something skydivers need to think about. Some "policing our own" needs to happen quick fast and in a hurry.

If we don't get a handle on this now it will only get worse. I've seen it get worse. More and more people come to this sport. That means more accidents if we don't increase awareness in key areas. One of those key areas is cool video awareness.

People do things all the time.. Jumps they normally wouldn't have,, Swoops they may not normally have done "I've seen swoopers fly into hangers, trees, vehicles and stadiums trying to get cool video", things all the time that could have been stopped had they thought of this for a second. If ONE TEACHABLE non know it all skydiver, young or old remembers those words after reading this post.. Cool Video and prevents an accident it is worth it.. after all this is a safety forum.. I wrote this for you.

Rhino

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I agree that taking added risks for the sake of video is not the smartest thing for us to be doing out there. But when the risks are related to pushing the evolution of human flight, and if video is along just to document the event, then that's different. We're all different, we all have different priorities and risk assessment levels. Pass on the jump if it's only because you want to look cool in the video. But do the jump if you think it's within your skill, experience and risk tolerance levels. You got to know that Wright Brothers would have had video had they had anything remotely close to our video technology available to them.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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you got a post on this deleted already in incidents - why don't you give it a rest?

otoh: yep, cameras are deadly weapons. maybe we can discuss this in s.c.?

What, exactly, did you take offense to in Rob's post? I think it was quite accurate.

Chuck

[Tink1717 2]

Well said.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[namgrunt 0]

to rhino

HOOAH

rhino got it ,hope everyone thinks

lets ALL live LONG and PROSPER

..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[rhino 0]

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HOOAH

Semper Fi!

[upndownshop 0]

Saw a double fatal. 2 years ago trying to get COOL Vid.

They were doing fly by's up high under canopy, and the slider interfered with the camera, once cleared it was too late.

Both gave right hand input, thus swinging the bodies to the left. They hit body to body and were killed instantly at 8k.

Lost two good people to Cool Vid.

To add to this, I think people are grabbing cameras way to soon. I mean really 2-300 jumps and we call ourselves experienced????

Please, if you must put a camera on your head,, keep one eye looking around you..

The sky will always be there waiting for you, take your time, dont let the Heavans get you first.


Be carefull all!

[rhino 0]

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To add to this, I think people are grabbing cameras way to soon. I mean really 2-300 jumps and we call ourselves experienced????

Please, if you must put a camera on your head,, keep one eye loking around you..

The sky will always be there waiting for you, take your time, dont let the Heavans get you first.

Good point...

[apixel 0]

This comment is of interest to me, since I would have liked to be one of those. I'm way off from having 300 jumps, but am looking to fly with a camera when I get there. Now ... is the problem with people getting distracted and trying things they wouldn't since they have a camera? Is it possible to have a camera, but keep an attitude like if it's not there? Meaning, I'm wouldn't try to be a camera person, just have something documenting jumps. ( If it's good great, if not so be it )
Or, is the temptation too great once you have the camera on?

[Canuck 0]

Go read the recent posts and watch the videos in this forum from Superkat. Two perfect examples of how it's not as simple as just ignoring that you're even wearing a camera...

There are very very few people with less than 500 jumps than have any business having a camera strapped to their heads.

Canuck

[upndownshop 0]

I read those thats why I posted here.
I totaly agree, and I dont mean to dismiss those with 2-300 jumps, those are good numbers especially if done in a short time.
Feeling confident to save our lives and trusting our equipment comes pretty quick, but awareness tends to come with time. And I believe no one will ever "master" skydiving. There are those "greats" but I bet if you ask them and they truly are "greats" they will agree that they are still learning.

Just remember you are responsible for you and your head must be on a swivle ALL the time.

My mother always said " Skydiving requires you to be 100%. 100% of the time."

That is so true, we all get complacent with experience, I know I have, and it has cost me an injury and nearly cost me my life on a separate occasion. And hell I grew up with this stuff burned into my head, yet I am guilty.

[Kris 0]

It sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work that way in practice. Once you put it on your head it becomes a possible distraction.

From your gear-up process, to turning it on before your jump, to freefall (and you WILL be trying to keep things in frame), and especially your emergency procedures.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Zoter 0]

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There are very very few people with less than 500 jumps than have any business having a camera strapped to their heads.

I mean no disrespect....but frankly thats just a generalised bullshit quotation.
It might have been the way it was 10 years ago.....but its not the way it is today.
I am not disrespecting those who have been before.....but personally ...and for those who have done a lot of hard work/research/learning at such low jump numbers to just have the opportunity to fly camera with safety issues/techniques....being at the forefront of our minds....that statement is plain insulting
Yes we have everything to learn from those with more time ......no denying.....but to say everyone sub 500 jumps shouldnt fly camera.......is just wrong

I personally have done alot of work to ensure that my equipment and technique is as safe as possible.....whilst maintaining a very healthy respect for the boundries of my abilities...
There are plenty of people out there right now..who think just the same.
You dont agree?

Just as an example.....take a search here from newbie camera people asking about techniques and about suitability of equipment..........lots of questions and lots of informative answers/advice.
If people sub 500jumps didnt give a shit......you wont find anything...........

[Canuck 0]

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There are plenty of people out ther right now..who think just the same.

Yup, there sure are. One who for some reason decided to post two videos of himself in near collision situations, both which would have been avoided simply by not wearing a camera.

10 years ago? What's changed in 10 years? Yeah, the equipment has gotten smaller, but all that has done is make the people wearing it more complacent. Oh yeah, now we also fly faster too.

Get your ego in check. You're probably not as good as you think you are, and if you are, then I guess you're one of the very very few that I said are ready before 500 jumps.

Canuck

[Kris 0]

Sorry, but I have to agree with Canuck. Even with my 400+ jumps, a camera adds a lot of potential hazard and distractions to a skydive.

And, to be honest, 400 jumps is hardly any experience at all.

Granted, different people have different comfort levels.

As for newbies being given help, I'd rather see someone get the right instructions than to have someone tell them they're not ready and have them try to figure it out for themselves. *shrug*

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Zoter 0]

Take a step back.....me like plenty of other dont 'claim ' to be good.....what we do claim to be...is responsible and safeon every dive.
Taking advice from our own clans and people on here all the way.......but always with safety at the forefrint of our minds ...always....you have picked 2 examples of problems.....on both of them I agree poor judgement is made
But way that up against the volume of people jumping with cameras....with a safety attitude being forefront ( take DZ.com postings on the subject as a crude barometer) and see that your generalised statement about people sub 500 jumps jumping camera is a poorly judged refelection on whats actually happening today...

[Zoter 0]

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10 years ago? What's changed in 10 years? Yeah, the equipment has gotten smaller, but all that has done is make the people wearing it more complacent

Hows about looking at the 'best' video mount system from 10 years ago and comparing that to the best from todays systems........in terms of snaggability on deployment........I'm sure there is a great difference.
Dont assume that attitudes towards the other dangers have not progressed as well....based on the experiences/statistics of our pioneering camera flying experts

[Zoter 0]

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Get your ego in check.

I dont have one....
What I do have is a very realistic and practically based knowledge of what I can and cant do
Most of that is based from practical experience and the advice and consults wityh my peers.

Hearing such generalised statements about "you have no business..." etc is merely inflammatory and highlights your lack of experience to recognise that certainly in my environment ( an those I have observed) that many many new camera flyers today seek alot of advice training in equipment and techniques in order to stay safe

[ianmdrennan 2]

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is merely inflammatory and highlights your lack of experience to recognise that certainly in my environment ( an those I have observed) that many many new camera flyers today seek alot of advice training in equipment and techniques in order to stay safe

Whether or not I think someone with low jump #'s should be jumping camera - read the above statement and apply canopy to it. then think about all those who are 'ok under their tiny canopy too early cause they thought about the risks and got coaching'.

While I don't necessarily agree on the #'s Canuck is throwing out, I do agree with the general statement he's making. Too many people have camera too soon and it's a distraction.

That said, with today's equipment I'm more worried about loss of focus on the dive than snag points for a novice camera flyer.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team