what can i do? Skydive Suffolk VA.

[dsaint77 0]

First off I will tell you this is a slam. Why did I ever come to this dropzone. It blows, I came here because it is the only area near hampton roads you can get aff. I did the class and waited... I have been here every weekend since Aug. I have 5 jumps. There has been two weather days durring this time. You get here at 8 am and you sit until dark. Maybe you get 1 jump in. They are only open on weekends. Fridays too, but they go away when the time changes.

I purchased the 2 - 20 jump package. 1700 dollars. The first jump is 339. Skydive Suffolk took my 2000 dollars. Along with many others and we can get in jumps. They have 3 full time instructors, two of them do tandems so the other instructor deals with students. They turn away cat A students after they get their 339 dollars because there is not two instructors to jump them.

There is no hope of getting your money back, it states that in the clause. I could have spent 3k and gone to fl and lived on the street and gotten my liscence in 5 days.

What can I do about this? It seems they just want the tandem money because its easy. There is rarely a coach here, so I'm going to be doing the same thing for coach jumps. It happens with everyone coming here. I sincerly hope that Larry P. Sees this post so that he can fix the problem. He is an affi and I have seen him jump twice. You got my money, my friends money and we waste our weekends for nothing!

Sincerly confused,

D

[DSE 3]

Have you spoken with Larry P, Suffolk's management, or anyone else there about your frustration?
Or did you come here first to slam them in hopes of using public opinion to fix your problem?

I'm impressed with the way Suffolk manages their dropzone, and can't imagine they won't work with you to find a solution.

Your post suggests frustration rather than confusion?

[Glitch 0]

First off, I've never jumped there so I'm in no position to comment on this particular dz. The dz.com reviews paint it to be a pretty nice little dz (for what that's worth...) so if I ever had the chance I wouldn't hesitate to drop by. It might only be once though....

This being said, there are some things common to ALL dz's in that the HNIC (Head Nigga In Charge) is the DZO. His dz... his planes... his rigs... his authority... his ass on the line... etc. If you have an issue or problem that can't be resolved to your satisfaction via speaking with the staff, then go talk to him/her. Generally speaking, they're just like you and me in that they're human (or humanoid) and put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. Have you talked to Larry about your issues / concerns? What was his response? There's always at least two sides to every story.

Ever hear the addage 'you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinager' ? I'd be willing to bet that the outcome would be a lot more to your liking if wouldn't have let this issue fester without talking with the HNIC and then go hit a public forum slamming them. YMMV, but I doubt it.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[billvon 2,434]

>You get here at 8 am and you sit until dark. Maybe you get 1 jump in. They
>are only open on weekends.

Sounds like the DZ I started at! One jump a weekend was pretty good.

[SARLDO 0]

Talk to Larry. I did my AFF there too (years ago) and he will accomidate you however possible. If he don't know there's an issue, there's no issue...

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens

MB#4300
Dudeist Skydiver #68

[yoink 321]

Quote

>You get here at 8 am and you sit until dark. Maybe you get 1 jump in. They
>are only open on weekends.

Sounds like the DZ I started at! One jump a weekend was pretty good.

Damn right! It took me 2 months of weekends to make my first jump... just refresher courses over, and over, and over and over... bloody British summer weather!

[3331 116]

Go to West Point

http://www.skydivethepoint.com/

Bring your dog.

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[dsaint77 0]

There are many things that are great about Suffolk. The folks at the DZ are awesome. LZ is great. Not a lot of air traffic. The safety is impeccable, they are extremely safety orientated. I am not looking to sacrifice the fact that when I go there I feel safe with the instructors.

My point is that they know of this problem. They could recruit or add more incentives for instructors or coaches. There is normally plenty of room on the plane, even though his business is still growing, It would only benefit him by getting more instructors and coaches. I know that the season is dying down but everything that I have ever heard is the same way. if the problem was that he needs more planes I would not complain one bit. That is not the case. The case is there are no instructors.

I have talked with the DZO, he knows there is a problem, but it seems that the line of communication is broken when it reaches the owner. Not too much you can do if that is the case.

I love jumping there, its just 8 hours or 10 hours of waiting for 1 jump has to stop.

[SimonBones 1]

I used to be an instructor at Skydive Suffolk until I moved away.

There was a period about a year and a half ago where we had what we called the "care bear" thing going on. Basically I was teaching an AFF ground course and there was one student who was soo thick, so out there, he just didn't get it. Nothing I tried could make the course material make sense to the guy. He was the first and only student I've ever had that I had to say, "hey man, maybe you should just do a tandem." And he did. He kept coming back wanting to do AFF jumps, but could never get his EPs right, he could ever remember what handle did what, etc no matter how many hours we spent going over stuff. I was too afraid to take him in the air. Even on the tandems he was stiff as a board, had no altitude awareness, and never deployed. He was just hopeless. He kept getting passed from instructor to instructor and nobody wanted to deal with him anymore, everybody was scared of him. This went on for a few months. Maybe you make the instructors feel in a way that they don't want to take you up? I don't know, I don't know who you are or what the deal is, but there are always two sides to every story.

There are always more than just 3 instructors at Skydive Suffolk. But think about this, it is a weekend dropzone. That means that most of the jumpers there work during the weak. They'll come to the DZ on the weekend to fun jump with their friends. They don't want to work, teach, or any of that. They are not full time staff for Larry and are under no obligations to work for him. Just because they are licensed instructors does not mean they have to work on the weekends for Larry. When I was there, there were some days that I didn't want to work. I just wanted to fun jump with my friends. And when I came in in the morning, manifest would ask me if I wanted to work that day. If I said no, they would respect that and I would go have fun and jump with my friends. I don't care if some tandem is upset because they feel they've waited too long or some AFF student is upset over the same, it's not my business, and I owe them nothing. I have the right to not show up and work if I don't want to.

I chose the students I worked closely with base on their attitudes. If a student was always out having fun, chatting it up meeting new people, buying beer to fill the beer fridge, I always went out of my way to help that student out in anyway I could. If the student was a guy with a piss poor attitude who bitched and complained a lot, then I'll just go fun jump with my friends. Putting up with some jerk with some inflated sense of entitlement is not worth my time on my weekend.

I hope it works out for you, but I know first hand that the problem is not with the people who jump there.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[timmyfitz 0]

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I have talked with the DZO, he knows there is a problem, but it seems that the line of communication is broken when it reaches the owner. Not too much you can do if that is the case.

Just for reference, DZO=Drop Zone Owner.

Stop talking to instructors and talk to the owner.

[iambeav2 0]

Maybe the OP is thinking DZO is Dropzone Operator. I've heard it used many times, know most of the instructors at Suffolk, and something just don't seem right. I know Don, and he even flew down to help me in NC one weekend b/c they had too MANY instructors...

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[DJL 232]

Quote

I used to be an instructor at Skydive Suffolk until I moved away.

There was a period about a year and a half ago where we had what we called the "care bear" thing going on. Basically I was teaching an AFF ground course and there was one student who was soo thick, so out there, he just didn't get it. Nothing I tried could make the course material make sense to the guy. He was the first and only student I've ever had that I had to say, "hey man, maybe you should just do a tandem." And he did. He kept coming back wanting to do AFF jumps, but could never get his EPs right, he could ever remember what handle did what, etc no matter how many hours we spent going over stuff. I was too afraid to take him in the air. Even on the tandems he was stiff as a board, had no altitude awareness, and never deployed. He was just hopeless. He kept getting passed from instructor to instructor and nobody wanted to deal with him anymore, everybody was scared of him. This went on for a few months. Maybe you make the instructors feel in a way that they don't want to take you up? I don't know, I don't know who you are or what the deal is, but there are always two sides to every story.

There are always more than just 3 instructors at Skydive Suffolk. But think about this, it is a weekend dropzone. That means that most of the jumpers there work during the weak. They'll come to the DZ on the weekend to fun jump with their friends. They don't want to work, teach, or any of that. They are not full time staff for Larry and are under no obligations to work for him. Just because they are licensed instructors does not mean they have to work on the weekends for Larry. When I was there, there were some days that I didn't want to work. I just wanted to fun jump with my friends. And when I came in in the morning, manifest would ask me if I wanted to work that day. If I said no, they would respect that and I would go have fun and jump with my friends. I don't care if some tandem is upset because they feel they've waited too long or some AFF student is upset over the same, it's not my business, and I owe them nothing. I have the right to not show up and work if I don't want to.

I chose the students I worked closely with base on their attitudes. If a student was always out having fun, chatting it up meeting new people, buying beer to fill the beer fridge, I always went out of my way to help that student out in anyway I could. If the student was a guy with a piss poor attitude who bitched and complained a lot, then I'll just go fun jump with my friends. Putting up with some jerk with some inflated sense of entitlement is not worth my time on my weekend.

I hope it works out for you, but I know first hand that the problem is not with the people who jump there.

I guess that's the difference with having staff and just having fun jumpers with ratings.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Maybe the OP is thinking DZO is Dropzone Operator.

That's why I wrote "Just for reference" as in I'm not sure what you think a DZO is but here is what it means just for future reference.

What is a Dropzone Operator?

[PhreeZone 15]

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What is a Dropzone Operator?

I've heard that term kicked around for the manager of the dropzone when that person is not the owner.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

What is a Dropzone Operator?

I've heard that term kicked around for the manager of the dropzone when that person is not the owner.

The way I see it, DZO - Owner. DZM - Manager or operator.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[davelepka 4]

I know that somebody suggested that you may be the problem, that maybe you're a 'problem student' or just a dick, but you said your buddies are in the same boat, so unless you're all dicks, I don't think that's the problem.

Are you calling ahead and making an appointment for your student jumps, or just showing up?

I'm sure that you made one for your first jump, you called ahead, maybe made a deposit, and had a date and a time to be there. The reason they do this is to make sure that they have the staff there that day to handle the workload, and to make sure that they don't get 50 tandems on Sat and none on Sun. With appointments, they can close out the Sat. jumps after the first 30 tandems, and schedule the other 20 for Sun (just as an example).

I know that some DZs don't require an appointment for students beyond the first few levels, but maybe this is what you need to do. Even if they say they don't make appointments for higher level students, the fact that you prepaid should get you this courtesy.

Look into this, or maybe scheduling a day where you can at least get to the point where you can self-superivse your jumps. This way you can always just do a solo if there are no coaches around.

Maybe you can bring in a coach from another DZ for a day as well. See if the DZ is willing to pay them out of your money, and this will help you get ahead.

Or see if you can use the money for just gear rental and jumps, and go finish your training somewhere else. You must live near Suffolk, so if you can get a license elsewhere, it never hurts to have money on account at a local DZ.

If you go this route, just make sure you get an accounting of just how much you have left on your account so you know what you have to work with when you return. Generally these package deals are discoutned, so you'll have to work out how much your jumps to date were worth to figure the remainder.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I don't know, I've seen asshats travel in packs before.

[dsaint77 0]

Well I understand where everyone is coming from here. I am frustrated that things are not going a little faster. I personally refuse to sacrifice safety for speed. If I could get 6 jumps a week I would be extremely happy, or maybe if I could get my jumps prior to DZ closing that would be awesome.

I do know that Larry is a good guy, I know people that he has helped because they cannot afford to jump as much as they would like. He uses them for manual labor and gives them credit to jump with. Its a win win situation.

I know others have lives outside working the weekend dropzone. I have seen these people that they know shouldn't be there. Bowling is safe...

I should have curbed my frustration and never posted this. The fact remains that during their busy season they are not staffed enough.

[kuai43 7]

Quote

If I could get 6 jumps a week I would be extremely happy.

No shit. So would most of us.

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[Krip 2]

Hi Dave

Quote

Maybe you can bring in a coach from another DZ for a day as well. See if the DZ is willing to pay them out of your money, and this will help you get ahead.

Or see if you can use the money for just gear rental and jumps, and go finish your training somewhere else. You must live near Suffolk, so if you can get a license elsewhere, it never hurts to have money on account at a local DZ.

If you go this route, just make sure you get an accounting of just how much you have left on your account so you know what you have to work with when you return. Generally these package deals are discoutned, so you'll have to work out how much your jumps to date were worth to figure the remainder.

Say what

I can't tell how much the customer has on account but IMO he's screwed

One Jump Wonder

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Say what

I can't tell how much the customer has on account but IMO he's screwed

I don't think so. I doubt they're trying to steal his money, it just sounds like they're understaffed.

Importing a coach is a stretch, but if the DZO was really trying to work with him, then it would be a simple proposition.

Beyond that, if he does get a license elsewhere, he should still be able to spend the money he put on his account. As much as they're not trying to steal it, they don't want to refund it either. So if he gets a license, he can work the balance down paying for gear rental and slots.

Larry has been around for awhile, and this isn't an everyday problem for this DZ. It's a weekend DZ, and it's common for these types of places to be very tight on staff. If one or two guys move away, or are out with an injury, it really puts the squeeze on the whole operation. I'm sure this situation is an exception to the norm, and that the DZ would rather see the OP satisfied as a customer.

[pirana 0]

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I chose the students I worked closely with base on their attitudes. If a student was always out having fun, chatting it up meeting new people, buying beer to fill the beer fridge, I always went out of my way to help that student out in anyway I could. If the student was a guy with a piss poor attitude who bitched and complained a lot, then I'll just go fun jump with my friends. Putting up with some jerk with some inflated sense of entitlement is not worth my time on my weekend.

I hope it works out for you, but I know first hand that the problem is not with the people who jump there.

I guess that's the difference with having staff and just having fun jumpers with ratings.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Quote

I chose the students I worked closely with base on their attitudes. If a student was always out having fun, chatting it up meeting new people, buying beer to fill the beer fridge, I always went out of my way to help that student out in anyway I could. If the student was a guy with a piss poor attitude who bitched and complained a lot, then I'll just go fun jump with my friends. Putting up with some jerk with some inflated sense of entitlement is not worth my time on my weekend.

I hope it works out for you, but I know first hand that the problem is not with the people who jump there.

I guess that's the difference with having staff and just having fun jumpers with ratings.

A person that plunks down $1700 is entitled to the services being paid for. If the DZ takes that kind of chunk of cash they need to commit to having the resources to fulfill their end of the deal. Not sure how this all went down, but if the OP's story is true, then they are getting the short end of the stick. While it is a nice gesture, a person that puts down $1700 in advance should not be required to buy beer and brown nose instructors to get those jumps.

[iambeav2 0]

I'm looking at this being the biggest issue. My dropzone has this problem. I am the Assistant Manager of my dropzone (and quite frankly the OPERATOR) and lead tandem instructor. However, I am only a TI and a coach. I do not have a full time AFF instructor, only a PRN. I have had a few students once they are placed on AFF or Coach status just "show up" especially on busy days and get pissed just like this when we can't accommodate them b/c they didn't schedule time to be there. I could care less about the money, coach jumps are 10x more fun to me, but I have to follow up with whoever made an appointment. Currently I have one student who just made it off of coach status and he would call and tell me he wanted to do "x" amount of coach jumps or aff jumps (when he was on aff) and show up. I would schedule my availability for him, and when tandems would call to schedule, that time slot was full. My biggest pet peeve REGARDLESS of whether you drop the package price up front or pay by the jump, is when a student gets pissed off b/c he can't jump, and thinks that b/c he's not a tandem student anymore, he doesn't have to schedule.

If you need an instructor whether it be coach, static line, aff, or tandem, a reservation is the best (not sure-fire) but best way to ensure you get your jumps in, b/c the DZO/DZM/DZWTFE shouldn't over book and make sure they have the staff there, BUT ONLY IF THEY KNOW WHAT IS ON THE BOOKS!!!

Edit: Anti-Grammar-nazified

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

Say what

I can't tell how much the customer has on account but IMO he's screwed

I don't think so. I doubt they're trying to steal his money, it just sounds like they're understaffed.

Importing a coach is a stretch, but if the DZO was really trying to work with him, then it would be a simple proposition.

Beyond that, if he does get a license elsewhere, he should still be able to spend the money he put on his account. As much as they're not trying to steal it, they don't want to refund it either. So if he gets a license, he can work the balance down paying for gear rental and slots.

Larry has been around for awhile, and this isn't an everyday problem for this DZ. It's a weekend DZ, and it's common for these types of places to be very tight on staff. If one or two guys move away, or are out with an injury, it really puts the squeeze on the whole operation. I'm sure this situation is an exception to the norm, and that the DZ would rather see the OP satisfied as a customer.

Hi Dave

Never said the DZ is trying to steal the customers money.

When a customer at any business buys "a package" or pays in advance they are operating at a disadvantage.

Business people don't turn away new business because their over booked or short of inventory. The new money moves to the head of the line or they may go somewhere else.

The paid in advance (non refundable) package is on the hook. They can wait for the business to fullfill their part of the contract however long that may take, or they can go somewhere else.

We're not talking about a customer paying a deposit to reserve a product and not picking it up or cancelling and leaving a business on the hook. The customer paid in full, if the business can't deliver the product, they need to return the customers money for the products they are unable to deliver.

Winters coming how long is the customer supposed to wait for delivery for a seasonal product

One Jump Wonder