Fall rate...any suggestions?

[TiaDanger 0]

I wanted to post here because there seem to be more responders here than in just the RW forum. And, I've done the searches, and am still looking for more input. And I do understand to take internet advice with a grain of salt. I'm a 115 lb newbie (50 jumps), and...I find myself floating above the formation many times. I feel like I live in a mantis position and am arching the crap out of my hips, but many times I cant get down. I find this happens a lot if the exit is funneled and we go to reform the group with the low man, I cant seem to keep up with the group thats heading down to the low man. I don't want to resort to weight yet, as I don't yet want to load any higher than 1:1.

For you small jumpers or slow flyers, what helped YOU increase your fall rate to keep up with big jumpers? Do you tuck your hands below your chin? Do you just bring your arms in, but keep them right next to your body? Is there some body position that works good to get a floater down that I'm just not getting? My jumpsuit is nice and tight already.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[jsreznor 0]

try linked exits

[mrbiceps 0]

The first thing u can do for starters is squeeze yourself into a really slick and tight suit. U may need to get one custom made. Get it with small or no grippers that are flat and dont grab much air. Tell the company what u need and they will know what material to make it out of. Maybe mostly slick rip stop nylon like wingsuits are made out of. I reakon that most of your problems will be solved once u get the suit right. If that doesnt work maybe weight is your other only option but if your worried about your wingloading u may need to upsize your canopy. hope this helps.

[FreeFlyer2100 0]

You can start by wearing less baggy clothing. You know what, just come out to the east coast and we will keep taking off a layer until you can fall underneath us.

[tetra316 0]

Well, I hate to say it but really, SIUCC.

While I wouldn't advocate putting weight on students, at 50 jumps you are no longer a student and most likely have not been for a while. As you have found out you need to wear weight. Sure there are some techniques that can help but the best approach is to wear weights. It allows you to fly your body without such distortion that would be needed if you did not wear them. Therefore, you fly better and cleaner and progress faster as you don't have to worry about maintaining some fast falling body position all the time. You can use a natural body position.

Coached tunnel time can also help with fall rate, faster or slower.

Or you can just stick to jumping with people your size.

[skymama 35]

PM dz.commer VanillaSkyGirl (Rosa). She's lighter than you and able to jump on big-way formations. Maybe she'll have a few suggestions for you.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[tetra316 0]

Weights and lots of weights! I don't know how Rosa does it but she jumps with 20-30 pounds regularly on big ways.

[spootch 0]

If you want to be a champion in this sport you have to eat like a champion! Cheese cake and fried chicken 4-5 times a day for the next 4.5 months! (should have you up to fighting weight in no time)

be strong!

[jpforget 0]

Hello,

I don’t post often but your thread reminds me how it was few years ago.
My understanding is that you are doing RW.
Assuming your jumpsuit is tight and your body position is good, I think you will need to learn how to use weight soon or later.

I’m saying this because placing the arms differently to grab less air may help to go down and reach the formation but once you are there you also need to be in the middle of your range to fly efficiently. Flying the “chicken wing” position is in general not well appreciated by load organizers.

So, in my opinion, if you really need weight and not use them, you may develop bad habits that will take a while to fix later.

Reverse is also true. If you put too much weight to compensate you can become “lazy” and your fall rate range will be narrow.

If somebody has a grip on your leg and start to float, will you have enough range to compensate and still fly with the formation?

Do you have tendency to float when taking grips or doing 360’s?

I understand your concerns about wing loading and it is good news. We have seen on these forums too many jumpers that want to downsize too soon. You are on the good side of it!

So, my advise, and take it for what it is, an internet advise:
- Find at your dropzone somebody using weight that you trust and discuss with him or her on that subject (effect on body position and wing loading).

-Once you decide to wear weight, start gradually (Maybe 3-5 lbs?) and try keeping the same amount between jumps. (Don’t over adjust from one jump to another)

-If you jump near water, well, think about it!

-Remember that at one point you decide how much weight you need and live with that decision. The amount required is related to your size, weight and flexibility and flying abilities. Dress for success!

-If you have a wind tunnel in your area, it can be an excellent tool to increase your fall rate range

In my case: 5’5”, 120 lbs
4 Way: 14 lbs
10-20 ways: 11 lbs
50 way or more (outside of the formation): 8-9 lbs
30 way (4 way Base): 25 lbs

[sonomatommy 0]

her jumpsuit is plenty tight.;)

[muff528 3]

Weights have been mentioned but it's not just the amount of weight that makes the difference. Experiment with different positions and distributions for the weights. I'm tall and skinny and I was having trouble keeping up early on so I started with a vest. I kept adding weight and it wasn't really getting me within a comfortable flying range. Someone suggested moving the weights closer to my hips and it made all the difference in the world for me. I was able to remove and add weight to fit the dive plan and I also was able to use less weight overall. (Now, with age, I bend less easily so more weight becomes necessary.) Different body forms will require different placements for the weights. They are a bit uncomfortable but you'll get used to them.

[happythoughts 0]

There are two stages to this. People seem to be overlooking the second.

Getting down to a group is one thing. Flying there is another.

Bringing your arms in may get you there, but when you
reach out to take grips, you'll pop back up.

You want to arrive at the formation and then be able to fly
in the middle of your range. Be able to go faster or slower when needed.

My ex-g/f was 110 lbs and 5'1". 17 lbs of weight, but
she was flying with some heavy guys.

First, find a fast suit. Then, add some weight until you
feel comfortable.

The best measurement is to fly down to the group and then see if you can comfortably stay in your slot without grips.

[Chris_K 0]

"am arching the crap out of my hips, but many times I cant get down."

This is one of the main points that i teach people in the tunnel, its not about arching really hard, its about getting smaller. The less surface area you present for your weight, the faster you will fall.

If you feel like you need to fall faster, try bringing your arms in front of you chest while bringing in your legs. This is a huge reduction in surface area.

Tunnel time is always a good thing to help you learn this. There are also other tricks of droping one knee but that is best learn directly from a coach as its harder then it apears to do. Hard but effective.

The best suggestion is go to a tunnel, just 10 minutes focused on falling fast will make a huge difference, no weights required.

Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood.

[mrbiceps 0]

Quote

her jumpsuit is plenty tight.;)

pics please ??

[millertime24 8]

But think though, this means you can carve headdown and sitfly around that belly formation. That would be pretty cool too.

Muff #5048

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Quote

her jumpsuit is plenty tight.;)

pics please ??

+1

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kmills0705 0]

Quote

I wanted to post here because there seem to be more responders here than in just the RW forum. And, I've done the searches, and am still looking for more input. And I do understand to take internet advice with a grain of salt. I'm a 115 lb newbie (50 jumps), and...I find myself floating above the formation many times. I feel like I live in a mantis position and am arching the crap out of my hips, but many times I cant get down. I find this happens a lot if the exit is funneled and we go to reform the group with the low man, I cant seem to keep up with the group thats heading down to the low man. I don't want to resort to weight yet, as I don't yet want to load any higher than 1:1.

For you small jumpers or slow flyers, what helped YOU increase your fall rate to keep up with big jumpers? Do you tuck your hands below your chin? Do you just bring your arms in, but keep them right next to your body? Is there some body position that works good to get a floater down that I'm just not getting? My jumpsuit is nice and tight already.

First you say you don't want a wing load of more than 1:1. At 50 jumps what size canopy are you jump. That would put you under a fairly small canopy already.

I am not a big advocate of wearing weights. I would suggest you work with a coach on several jumps who can really vary their fall rate and who can teach you various techniques to fall faster.

I am a female instructor and I am the one instructor than call fall with one of our 240 pound students who may as well be an anvil. I also fall with our skinny, tall and lanky students. I dress a little differently depending on who I jump with, but I learned early on how to vary my fall rate out of necessity.

You will hear this from any skydiver - faster is better!!

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[chuckakers 370]

Adding the amount of weight necessary to nuetralize your fall rate will not significantly change your wing loading.

A 10% increase in wing loading - fairly typical for 100 pound ladies that often wear 10 or 12 pounds of lead - shouldn't cause a problem for anyone who can handle and safely land their current canopy. If it does give you trouble, consider moving up a canopy size. Don't get stuck on a specific number. 1:1 vs 1.1:1 will make only a minimal dfifference in canopy performance and landings.

The trick is to put all the variables together to make it work in total. If you need weights, wear them. If that causes canopy problems, solve it with a different canopy. If you can't fit a bigger canopy into your rig, get a bigger rig.

Just remember that when you get a bigger canopy and bigger rig - which weigh more - you may not need the weights.

Yeah, I know.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[TiaDanger 0]

Thanks guys, for all the input. Tunnel time is scheduled for next Monday night, so I can get instruction then, woo hoo!
I do arch, and I do try and get small, as Chris_K suggested. I feel like I'm trying to get as small as possible by bringing my arms in to mantis. I guess I just wasn't sure if there was any other better way to get the hell down in a hurry if the formation broke apart and was reconnecting below you, or staying with the group once you let go of grippers. I will look into getting small weights. I was just trying to see if there were any body manipulations that I could learn before I started putting weight on.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

Thanks guys, for all the input. Tunnel time is scheduled for next Monday night, so I can get instruction then, woo hoo!
I do arch, and I do try and get small, as Chris_K suggested. I feel like I'm trying to get as small as possible by bringing my arms in to mantis. I guess I just wasn't sure if there was any other better way to get the hell down in a hurry if the formation broke apart and was reconnecting below you, or staying with the group once you let go of grippers. I will look into getting small weights. I was just trying to see if there were any body manipulations that I could learn before I started putting weight on.

Your arms make a difference, but your legs will do alot too. When Im trying to get down to someone below me fast, I bring my arms in to my chest (think elbows on your stomach and hands near your neck, as well as bringing my legs together, and putting a little more pressure with my shins to counter the tendency to backslide. I can catch up with just about everyone Ive tried to by doing that.

Now once I get down to them, then I really have to figure the right amount of arms and how my legs are best for that fall rate.

Tunnel will help, just be gentle at first, them walls hurt!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[danielcroft 2]

I usually tuck my hands (and arms) behind my back and pull my legs all the way in when I want to come down. Basically very little in the wind at that point. I also jump a pretty tight suit and fast because I'm pretty thin and tallish.

[jsaxton 0]

LEAD, get used to it

You need to fly in a neutral body position at the desired fall rate.

Changing your body position to fall faster will screw you in the end.

Belts are better than vests
Parasport makes the best belt (available at http://www.paragear.com)

[chuckakers 370]

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her jumpsuit is plenty tight.;)

Ooooooooooooooooh Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Quote

I am not a big advocate of wearing weights.

Why not? It works.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

• Quote

[davelepka 4]

Please note that everyone giving you tips on body position has fewer than 500 jumps, and everyone telling you to jump with weights has 1000+ jumps.

By the way, I think you need weights too.

Just like a fat guy needs a baggy suit, the lightweights need lead. It's just a physical reality that if you want to comfortably fall with the more average sized jumpers, you need to weigh more. Take your pick, weights or cheeseburgers (I went with cheesburgers).

Start slow, maybe 5 lbs. Do a few jumps, and then add 2 lbs. Repaet until you can be comforatable and relaxed flying with the formation. Not just barely making it, not arched 'kind hard', but comfortable and relaxed. You're going to end up with 8 to 12 lbs total.

Working your way up will also let you adjust to the changes in your canopy. The actual changes will be slight, but taking it little by little will help with your confidence in jumping your canopy with the extra weights.

Weights are not a crutch, they're not cheating, and they're not a sign of lacking skills. Strap them on and be proud to be slim enough to need them.

Of yeah, if you ever jump near water, make sure you can get them off under canopy so you don't drown in the case of a water landing.