jclalor 12 #1 June 19, 2010 Was looking for any advice on launching a 2 man raft out of a SkyVan. --Thanks -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 99 #2 June 19, 2010 If you're going to have a rope going around/through the attachments surrounding the raft, make sure that each section of rope is independent - so if it is pulled in one area, it can't tighten up somewhere else. That can make it possible to grap on to someone, trapping them. Make separate pieces of rope for each section and that can't happen. It helps if the pilot can do a little bit of a push down to lighten everyone, but of course not so much that you get tossed up to the ceiling. It might need to be deflated a bit as you go up, so don't fill it too much on the ground.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #3 June 19, 2010 A 2 man raft often doesn't have the best attachment points for rope. A group down in Belize came up with some ideas. Look me up at the boogie and I'll help you with it. Most important thing is no loops where a hand/foot can get caught.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #4 June 20, 2010 Quote Most important thing is no loops where a hand/foot can get caught. +1 My buddy got his hand through loop, the jump was fckup from the start and the raft started spiraling. His hand got caught by the line of the spinning raft. At some time he went for the hooknife, but the line broke before he got to the cutting part. With every rotation the pressure was getting bigger. Just before the line broke the line was pressing soo tight on his finger that he thought it was broken. He did not feel his fingers for several days later. Funny thing is that, just before this jump, I found post on dz.com what to do and what not to do on raft dive, but on the actual dz, nobody wanted to listen. dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #5 June 20, 2010 Leave the oars on the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #6 June 20, 2010 QuoteWas looking for any advice on launching a 2 man raft out of a SkyVan. Search, read, heed: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=raft+jump&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=score&mh=25 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #7 June 21, 2010 Clicky "If the rest of the people let go of the raft, dont try to save it!""I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #8 June 21, 2010 VERY IMPORTANT noone should ever be above the raft. If the raft gets loose or the riders get dumped out the raft WILL KILL YOU IF YOU ARE ABOVE IT.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #9 June 21, 2010 Get someone who has done one before to go on the jump and help you organize. As someone else posted, never get over the raft. Very dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morne 0 #10 June 21, 2010 QuoteVERY IMPORTANT noone should ever be above the raft. If the raft gets loose or the riders get dumped out the raft WILL KILL YOU IF YOU ARE ABOVE IT. Why ? or How? Sorry not doubting you , just want to learn something Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 June 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteVERY IMPORTANT noone should ever be above the raft. If the raft gets loose or the riders get dumped out the raft WILL KILL YOU IF YOU ARE ABOVE IT. Why ? or How? Sorry not doubting you , just want to learn something A raft without it's riders will decelerate very rapidly, to about 20-30 mph. If you hit that at a freefall speed of 120 mph, it's going to smash you very violently, possibly breaking bones and knocking you unconscious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beachbum 0 #12 June 21, 2010 120?? I wonder how many rafts ever get going that fast? The one we did yesterday, my Protrack showed an average of 97 for the first half of the jump (I stayed with the raft the whole time). Even from "just" that though, a 60+ mph decelleration is still a large enough difference to cause a lot of damage!!!As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #13 June 21, 2010 Quote my Protrack showed an average of 97 for the first half of the jump (I stayed with the raft the whole time) Didja have to go head-down to reach that speed Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 June 22, 2010 Quote120?? I wonder how many rafts ever get going that fast? The one we did yesterday, my Protrack showed an average of 97 for the first half of the jump (I stayed with the raft the whole time). Even from "just" that though, a 60+ mph decelleration is still a large enough difference to cause a lot of damage!!! Most rafts seem to fall about 110. When he mentioned 120, I suspect he meant a jumper diving out after the raft and approaching it. As far as impact, I saw a raft dump about 10-15 ft under someone. The contact seemed to be instant, even in slo-mo. The rubber handle on the front hit his face, splitting his goggles, and stunning him. He was wrapped for 3-4 seconds until some people holding ropes pulled it off of him. From about 7,000 to 3,000 ft - he was dazed. On the ground, his forehead and nose were bleeding. He said that he suddenly realized he was still in freefall and dumped around 2,000. If it had hit his head differently, it would have snapped his neck easily. "Do not get above the raft" seems like an obvious safety rule. There doesn't seem to be a value in doing it either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #15 June 22, 2010 Quote VERY IMPORTANT noone should ever be above the raft. If the raft gets loose or the riders get dumped out the raft WILL KILL YOU IF YOU ARE ABOVE IT. Thanks for throwing that in. Never gets repeated enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beachbum 0 #16 June 22, 2010 Quote Quote my Protrack showed an average of 97 for the first half of the jump (I stayed with the raft the whole time) Didja have to go head-down to reach that speed Wendy P. nah ... I wore my weights!! As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #17 June 23, 2010 obvious, but it is not funny to reach into the raft and deploy for your friend! The PC and bridle will dance around in the burble of the raft, wrapping up the heads of everyone on board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #18 June 23, 2010 Quoteobvious, but it is not funny to reach into the raft and deploy for your friend! And why would that be necessary? Because (answering my own question) the altimeters of the people inside the raft are giving false high readings due to the fact that they are sitting in a giant low pressure burble. On one raft dive I was an outside rope-holder in front. The people inside the raft didn't exit when they were supposed to. I started signaling for them to get out. They ignored me. My signals got more frantic, and they finally rolled out, but about 1,000' lower than what was planned. Please don't do that. You may find your raft holders abandoning you, leaving you to be cocooned inside a giant mass of rubber. Plan the dive with several people to give break-off signals to the raft-sitters. Raft sitters: Heed them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #19 June 23, 2010 Jeez - After reading all this, one wonders that all raft jumps don't end in horrible mass fatalities. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 June 23, 2010 Quote Jeez - After reading all this, one wonders that all raft jumps don't end in horrible mass fatalities. Most people look upon raft jumps as just simple harmless fun. Fortunately, most of the time they are. But there is also a LOT of extra risk and things that can go wrong with them. And most of the people doing them aren't even aware of those factors. I don't like the idea of highly inexperienced people getting involved in such jumps. I believe we are fortunate that raft jumps don't go bad more often. "What fools these mortals be." - Shakespeare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #21 June 23, 2010 >the altimeters of the people inside the raft are giving false high >readings due to the fact that they are sitting in a giant low pressure >burble. Not by much. 200-300 feet is about the worst error I've seen. Agreed on the everyone-exit-on-the-signal tho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #22 June 24, 2010 you need couple people to stablize the raft out the door or 85% of the time you'll be rafting upside down..Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 June 24, 2010 Quoteyou need couple people to stablize the raft out the door or 85% of the time you'll be rafting upside down.. The major point of failure is immediately out the door. The raft flips forward. The back comes over the front. The two ways to fight that are: - The people in the raft lean back on exit. - On the back of the raft, one person helps launch it, but hangs on. As the raft starts to flip forward, the person on the back will feel the shock on his arms. They can stop that forward flip. (It may stand them up vertically and almost put them in the back of the raft) Do those two things and your chances of success increase a lot. The people on the side are essentially there as launchers. All the launchers should be good RW belly-flyers. Dress for success. Rafts fall slow, probably 110. If someone starts to sink out, they should let go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VideoFly 0 #24 June 24, 2010 I use climber’s tubular webbing instead of rope. Use short separate pieces for each anchor point, knotted tight enough to get a good grip, but not have spaces big enough to get a finger through. I use different colored webbing to be slot specific and avoid confusion. Choose your jumpers carefully, looking for good flying skills and some raft experience on the load. Rehearse the jump on the ground. Do not fully inflate the raft on the ground. It will expand as you gain altitude and lose firmness as you descend. Don’t let the passengers get stuck in a “clam shell” when descending as the raft becomes less inflated. Plan each jumper’s break-off to maintain stability until letting go. Have fun—Be careful! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #25 June 25, 2010 BEWARE OF THE "ZERO-G" EXIT. I have seen video of one which occured last year where the pilot mis-judged and ended up launching the raft and passengers into the overhead of the CASA. There were injuries and some scary moments in freefall.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites