agentsmith413 0 #1 December 7, 2010 Sunday i had my first off landing. Uneventful but interesting to say the least. Basically i fly a full face helmet(which im having second thoughts about doing after this) and it fogged up on me during freefall(which it has done before). I was still able to read my altimeter but i couldnt really see where my spot was. the 4 way i was flying broke off at 4,000 and i tracked away but it was a rather short track due to how low we broke off. i waved off and pulled immediately after my track and had an uneventful opening. I have a feeling i pulled low because when i looked at my altimeter after i opened it read about 2,000' give or take. i realized i couldnt make it back and landed off. Looking back on it i feel i made some poor decisions which led to this off landing. While i could read my altimeter i couldnt see where i was in relation to the dropzone. So rather than tracking away, i probably should have just waited till the others tracked away a bit and pulled thus being able to pull higher. Second, i feel the break off is a bit low considering i want to pull at 3,500' when considering the time it takes to turn, track, wave off and pull, i couldve easily lost over 1000' thus pulling lower than the intended altitude. After landing and getting back to the dz, i tried to make up excuses for my decisions but when i look back at them, i had other, better, options. So its an experience i learned from and i will be doing what i can to make sure i avoid avoidable situations.Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, all used up, and loudly proclaiming: Wow, what a ride! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #2 December 7, 2010 Get used to it. You're gonna land out from time to time. I would not recommend that you not track away from your group. This will have minimal effect on your spot and could cause a different hazard. I would recommend figuring out why your face shield fogs and get that fixed for situational awareness. Lastly and most important. Learn how to fly your canopy into tough situations. Every jump is a learning opportunity. Remember this lesson when you consider downsizing. You can't always guarantee a good spot so be prepared. jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #3 December 7, 2010 what kind of helmet?Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #4 December 7, 2010 This.But good on the OP for realizing what happened and for sharing with us. Be safe up there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #5 December 7, 2010 if you wanted to pull at 3500, you should have planned the breakoff alitutude at 5000. According to the SIM, the planned break off point should be 1500 feet higher then the highest planned deployment. For groups of 6 or more 2000 ft is required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #6 December 7, 2010 CASE OF BEER!!! I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 December 7, 2010 Quote CASE OF BEER!!! That's so 20th Century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #8 December 7, 2010 Quote Sunday i had my first off landing. Uneventful but interesting to say the least. Welcome to skydiving. The world is your LZ! (Not really ) Quote Basically i fly a full face helmet(which im having second thoughts about doing after this) and it fogged up on me during freefall(which it has done before). Fix the fogging. Keep open until climbout, use slime on the lens (contact manufacturer). Quote I have a feeling i pulled low because when i looked at my altimeter after i opened it read about 2,000' give or take. i realized i couldnt make it back and landed off. Aborting your attempts to return to the DZ and concentrating on a safe out landing is admirable. However, learn how to extend the glide of your canopy and perhaps next time you will be able to get back safely. Chat with a canopy coach or instructor. Take a canopy control course. Quote So rather than tracking away, i probably should have just waited till the others tracked away a bit and pulled thus being able to pull higher. Collisons are a quick way to die (and take other people with you). Track like your life depends on it... if you land out, so be it. You won't be welcome on jumps if you can't be relied on to track. The center belongs to the camera guys... don't be there. Quote So its an experience i learned from and i will be doing what i can to make sure i avoid avoidable situations. Good for you. Now, get back on the airplane!The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airviking 0 #9 December 7, 2010 Quote Quote CASE OF BEER!!! That's so 20th Century. Welcome to my world.I believe you have my stapler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #10 December 7, 2010 Quotethe 4 way i was flying broke off at 4,000 and i tracked away but it was a rather short track due to how low we broke off. 4000 feet is LOW for a break off of a 4way?!?!?!!?!?! When did that happen? We break off our 8way's there. QuoteWhile i could read my altimeter i couldnt see where i was in relation to the dropzone. So rather than tracking away, i probably should have just waited till the others tracked away a bit and pulled thus being able to pull higher. Nope, always track away.... What if someone else had the exact same thought? QuoteSecond, i feel the break off is a bit low considering i want to pull at 3,500' Then 4k is a bit low for you. You should tell people that. QuoteAfter landing and getting back to the dz, i tried to make up excuses for my decisions but when i look back at them, i had other, better, options. I think the only mistake you made was agreeing to a 4k breakoff when you wanted to pull at 3.5. But, the rest of what you did was not bad. Quotei realized i couldnt make it back and landed off. Great choice. Landing out is better than hitting a tree. So once you are 51% sure you will not make the DZ, pick an out you are 99% sure you can make and land there. People die trying to get home. People wait too long to decide to land out and end up in a MUCH worse area. Some of your "better" ideas are not better, IMO. * Staying in place instead of tracking... Bad idea, people die this way."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agentsmith413 0 #11 December 8, 2010 thanks for the other viewpoints. i appreciate it.Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, all used up, and loudly proclaiming: Wow, what a ride! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #12 December 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteSo rather than tracking away, i probably should have just waited till the others tracked away a bit and pulled thus being able to pull higher. Collisons are a quick way to die (and take other people with you). Track like your life depends on it... if you land out, so be it. You won't be welcome on jumps if you can't be relied on to track. The center belongs to the camera guys... don't be there.Confirmed... To original poster... Please track anyway from any formation skydive, no matter how bad the spot. Unless you are specifically assigned the center (only one person can be -- and that's typically the video guy/girl!) Landing out is safer than having two center flyers collide -- you might kill 2nd person above you when you pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LDiCosimo 0 #13 December 12, 2010 I'm low jump #'s too. You cannot be too shy to ask for a break off alt that fits your comfort level. If the people your jumping with don't like it then jump with someone else. Sometimes people forget that they are jumping with such a new skydiver and when you ask for an extra 500-1000 feet 99% of the time they will agree with the request. Have fun be safe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #14 December 12, 2010 QuoteI'm low jump #'s too. You cannot be too shy to ask for a break off alt that fits your comfort level. If the people your jumping with don't like it then jump with someone else. Sometimes people forget that they are jumping with such a new skydiver and when you ask for an extra 500-1000 feet 99% of the time they will agree with the request. Have fun be safe Always be sure everyone knows your opening high, including other groups! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 December 12, 2010 Congrats on landing safely! There's a lot of sub-50 jump youngsters out there who would have been confused. Quote i waved off and pulled immediately after my track and had an uneventful opening. I have a feeling i pulled low because when i looked at my altimeter after i opened... Did you look at it before you pulled? Quote i realized i couldnt make it back and landed off. As already mentioned, a good canopy course may help you reduce those off-landings. QuoteSo rather than tracking away, i probably should have just waited till the others tracked away a bit and pulled thus being able to pull higher. Just to re-enforce - that is NOT a good idea. You may have heard the phrase, "Plan the Dive, Dive the Plan" That means plan it on the ground and stick to the plan in the air. QuoteSecond, i feel the break off is a bit low considering i want to pull at 3,500' Just to re-enforce - let it be known during the dirt dive. Quotewhen considering the time it takes to turn, track, wave off and pull, i couldve easily lost over 1000' thus pulling lower than the intended altitude. Make it your goal to learn to flat-track well. Flat-tracking maximizes distance and minimizes altitude loss during the track. That means you get farther away for a given altitude loss. QuoteAfter landing and getting back to the dz, i tried to make up excuses for my decisions Try to overcome this. An honest self-evaluation is important to the learning process. Yes, sometimes it's hard to man up and admit mistakes but we can all learn from them. Besides, when you are "justifying" your actions to others, you generally are only fooling yourself. Again, congrats for landing safely. Now go buy the beer.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #16 December 12, 2010 Quote Always be sure everyone knows your opening high, including other groups! What is high? The O.P. stated he was opening at 3500 ft. I personally wouldn't think that was so high it necessitated notifying people in other groups (I would say 4000' and above from my very limited experience) but I would like to now what is standard at other DZs."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #17 December 12, 2010 QuoteQuote Always be sure everyone knows your opening high, including other groups! What is high? The O.P. stated he was opening at 3500 ft. I personally wouldn't think that was so high it necessitated notifying people in other groups (I would say 4000' and above from my very limited experience) but I would like to now what is standard at other DZs. I was talking to the guy that said 4500...BUT, 3500 is High, and is better off towards the back of the plane, I open at 2000....I feel safer there below everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #18 December 12, 2010 QuoteWhat is high? The O.P. stated he was opening at 3500 ft. I personally wouldn't think that was so high it necessitated notifying people in other groups (I would say 4000' and above from my very limited experience) but I would like to now what is standard at other DZs. Why not mention it anyway? Takes a few seconds for everyone to discuss this at the loading area. I personally see 3.5 high for an experienced jumper and I pull 2-2.5 normally."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #19 December 12, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhat is high? The O.P. stated he was opening at 3500 ft. I personally wouldn't think that was so high it necessitated notifying people in other groups (I would say 4000' and above from my very limited experience) but I would like to now what is standard at other DZs. Why not mention it anyway? Takes a few seconds for everyone to discuss this at the loading area. I personally see 3.5 high for an experienced jumper and I pull 2-2.5 normally. It all depends - I prefer 3'5 ish - but I am also jumping a velo @ 2.2 and prefer a little extra time. I have never been anywhere that considers 3'5 to be a "high" opening altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVincisEnvy 0 #20 December 12, 2010 I'm a newbie, too, and like to pull around 3.5k'. I'll go down to 3k, but if I'm in a group that wants to plan a break-off below 4k, I speak up and say that's outside of my comfort zone. I've never been asked to leave a formation jump because I want to pull above 3k, nor have I ever caught any flak for speaking up. And if the entire group is unwilling to pull higher than 3k, they're probably doing something more advanced than I'm comfortable with or should be doing at my current skill level anyway. Just my $0.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 2 #21 December 13, 2010 Translation: I was d!cking around under the canopy for too long and forgot to head back to the holding area close to the drop zone. Oh wait...that's what I DID on my 3rd jump as a student..nevermind..carry on! Who was on the 4way with you? If they didn't give you hell after you landed, I'd be shocked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #22 December 13, 2010 Quote Translation: I was d!cking around under the canopy for too long and forgot to head back to the holding area close to the drop zone. Oh wait...that's what I DID on my 3rd jump as a student..nevermind..carry on! Who was on the 4way with you? If they didn't give you hell after you landed, I'd be shocked. http://www.skydivingstills.com/Skydiving/2010/Weekend-Pics-10-30-10/14434670_HAmH5#1070692821_7yEDd-XL-LB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 2 #23 December 13, 2010 Quote Quote Translation: I was d!cking around under the canopy for too long and forgot to head back to the holding area close to the drop zone. Oh wait...that's what I DID on my 3rd jump as a student..nevermind..carry on! Who was on the 4way with you? If they didn't give you hell after you landed, I'd be shocked. http://www.skydivingstills.com/Skydiving/2010/Weekend-Pics-10-30-10/14434670_HAmH5#1070692821_7yEDd-XL-LB F!cking stalker.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SRI85 0 #24 December 13, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Translation: I was d!cking around under the canopy for too long and forgot to head back to the holding area close to the drop zone. Oh wait...that's what I DID on my 3rd jump as a student..nevermind..carry on! Who was on the 4way with you? If they didn't give you hell after you landed, I'd be shocked. http://www.skydivingstills.com/Skydiving/2010/Weekend-Pics-10-30-10/14434670_HAmH5#1070692821_7yEDd-XL-LB F!cking stalker.... ha didnt know your 3rd jump was 2 months ago!! stalker? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 2 #25 December 13, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Translation: I was d!cking around under the canopy for too long and forgot to head back to the holding area close to the drop zone. Oh wait...that's what I DID on my 3rd jump as a student..nevermind..carry on! Who was on the 4way with you? If they didn't give you hell after you landed, I'd be shocked. http://www.skydivingstills.com/Skydiving/2010/Weekend-Pics-10-30-10/14434670_HAmH5#1070692821_7yEDd-XL-LB F!cking stalker.... ha didnt know your 3rd jump was 2 months ago!! stalker? Seeing as I don't know who the hell you are, and seeing that you found a photo of me so fast on skydivingstills.com...well, like I said...stalker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
