Deaths since I quit.

[mjosparky 3]

I quit jumping in February 2006. Since then, in the US 130 skydivers have died. Of those who died 77 or 59% were under a good canopy. Worldwide the numbers are 331 dead with 148 or 44% under good canopies.
Disclaimer – My figures may be off by 1 or 2.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DaVinciflies 0]

To give a more complete picture: the number of fatalities per thousand USPA members (a better measure of the US situation than absolute numbers) continues to decline.

http://www.uspa.org/AboutSkydiving/SkydivingSafety/tabid/526/Default.aspx

The percentage under a good canopy would be expected to increase as gear gets more reliable and back-up devices such as AADs become more prevalent.

[mjosparky 3]

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To give a more complete picture: the number of fatalities per thousand USPA members (a better measure of the US situation than absolute numbers) continues to decline.

http://www.uspa.org/AboutSkydiving/SkydivingSafety/tabid/526/Default.aspx

The percentage under a good canopy would be expected to increase as gear gets more reliable and back-up devices such as AADs become more prevalent.

That’s bull shit. If you want to post any numbers that keep you happy go for it. The figures I posted are actual number of dead skydivers. I am not trying to make a statistical data base so quit twisting what I posted.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Olmed 0]

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I quit jumping in February 2006. Since then, in the US 130 skydivers have died. Of those who died 77 or 59% were under a good canopy. Worldwide the numbers are 331 dead with 148 or 44% under good canopies.
Disclaimer – My figures may be off by 1 or 2.

Sparky

Why did you quit?

As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

[airtwardo 6]

Why did you quit?

As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

Don't worry!

No matter what happens...I'll be fine.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[AggieDave 6]

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I quit jumping in February 2006. Since then, in the US 130 skydivers have died. Of those who died 77 or 59% were under a good canopy. Worldwide the numbers are 331 dead with 148 or 44% under good canopies.
Disclaimer – My figures may be off by 1 or 2.

Sparky

Why did you quit?

As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

You booked your death sentence when you were born.

Go skydive and have fun (and buy beer)!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[cocheese 0]

I wonder how many skydivers died from other causes.

[rmarshall234 13]

What is more concerning in my mind is the number of people not on that list who are now paralyzed, missing limbs, or broken to the point that they will never be as active as they once were. There is no record of those individuals that I'm aware of, yet their fate was sealed by the same issue Michael seems to be making - which is largely ignored by the skydiving industry: The performance of the modern parachute has far outpaced the average canopy pilot's ability to control it safely.

[deltron80 0]

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As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

Don't worry. They won't even let you swoop until you finish AFF.

[winsor 187]

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As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

Don't worry. They won't even let you swoop until you finish AFF.

Oh, you can bury a toggle at treetop height, but you will be yelled at for breaking the rules.

We wouldn't want that to happen.

[SRI85 0]

Most people who have died in car accidents, were driving perfectly good cars.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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That’s bull shit. If you want to post any numbers that keep you happy go for it. The figures I posted are actual number of dead skydivers. I am not trying to make a statistical data base so quit twisting what I posted.

Sparky

Wow - defensive much?

You posted some numbers, and so did I. You respond calling BS but you don't really add anything to the discussion. I didn't even dispute what you said.

What is your point?

[theonlyski 3]

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Don't worry!

No matter what happens...I'll be fine.

Apparently the 'ski gene is part of the sense of humor.

I tell that to all the tandem students that I'm videoing.

"No matter what happens to you, just remember... I'll be fine!"

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[airtwardo 6]

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Don't worry!

No matter what happens...I'll be fine.

Apparently the 'ski gene is part of the sense of humor.

I tell that to all the tandem students that I'm videoing.

"No matter what happens to you, just remember... I'll be fine!"

WAS gonna tell him...

AFF huh, well don't buy any green bananas, you'll be gettin' ripe long before they do!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 3]

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Most people who have died in car accidents, were driving perfectly good cars.

But I am not talking about people dying in cars, I am talking about skydivers dying after they opened their canopy.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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That’s bull shit. If you want to post any numbers that keep you happy go for it. The figures I posted are actual number of dead skydivers. I am not trying to make a statistical data base so quit twisting what I posted.

Sparky

Wow - defensive much?

You posted some numbers, and so did I. You respond calling BS but you don't really add anything to the discussion. I didn't even dispute what you said.

What is your point?

My point is just what I posted. I am not looking for you or anyone else to skew the numbers with some "per thousand” bull shit. You can dress it up any way you want but the numbers I posted represent dead jumpers.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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I quit jumping in February 2006. Since then, in the US 130 skydivers have died. Of those who died 77 or 59% were under a good canopy. Worldwide the numbers are 331 dead with 148 or 44% under good canopies.
Disclaimer – My figures may be off by 1 or 2.

Sparky

Why did you quit?

As an AAF student in about 9 days I wonder if I signed my death sentence when I booked the course?

Olmed,

I quit after 30 years of jumping. It was just time to quit. Go make a few jumps and see how it affects you. If you feel it keep going. Don’t let the ranting of an old man keep you from trying everything life has to off.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,426]

The five years after I started (1991-1996) saw 164 deaths per USPA. I witnessed one firsthand although it did not make the USPA stats, since it was an airplane crash.

Since then a lot has changed. A lot of the above were low or no pulls, something that AAD's have improved a great deal. A fair number (8 I think) were tandem fatalities; tandems have since improved tremendously in terms of training and gear reliability/usability. About a third were the "landing under a good canopy" variety, but most were not from intentional low turns; they were from canopy collapses, or hard landings on buildings or in trees.

So overall I think we're improving. I think canopies have actually gotten _more_ reliable - the "canopy just collapsed" sort of incidents are getting less and less frequent.

The two categories I think are becoming the biggest issues are intentional flight into the ground and canopy collisions, both of which are indicative of the higher speeds at which canopies fly nowadays. In other words, overall canopies are getting more reliable, but are harder to fly safely.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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My point is just what I posted. I am not looking for you or anyone else to skew the numbers with some "per thousand” bull shit. You can dress it up any way you want but the numbers I posted represent dead jumpers.

Sparky

Sparky -

The USPA numbers are actual dead jumpers too. I am not trying to skew anything. You provided your numbers with no context in which to evaluate them. I am merely trying to add to the discussion.

I am certainly not saying there is no problem, and I am not saying that we should be complacent about it. But the full story is that skydiving has been getting safer since the 1960s.

If I could draw a point from this thread it would be that the best place for us to focus our efforts now is on canopy flying and landing skills.

It seems that the manufacturers have done a good job of making our equipment more reliable and the weak point now is the soft, squidgy thing suspended in the harness.

[mjosparky 3]

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It seems that the manufacturers have done a good job of making our equipment more reliable and the weak point now is the soft, squidgy thing suspended in the harness.

The manufactures have done a good job of producing canopies that will kill you in a heartbeat and selling to anyone with the money. In the interest of looks and style manufactures have done a good job of producing containers that can possibly delay deployment of your reserve just long enough to kill you.

Skydivers will continue to attack a product that has done more to save lives than anything in the history of the sport. But they will maintain brand loyalty to a container system for reason they don’t understand.

It’s such a shame that jumps would rather die than be un-cool..

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

But the full story is that skydiving has been getting safer since the 1960s.

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I would disagree, but only because MY definition of safe might be different than yours.

For my Skydiving career, a safe jump always constituted one that would allow me to pack up and make another...being dead only makes that marginally more difficult than having a bone sticking out of your jumpsuit or a foot on backwards.

Yes there have always been injuries but to my uneducated eye, there sure seems to be a whole lot more hospital visits than there were 30 years ago...even taking into account the increased membership numbers.

Perhaps on a pie chart the sport may have become somewhat less lethal but it certainly seems to be much more hazardous.

I think if you believe the sport is 'safer' than 20-30 years ago... you're not looking at the whole picture.

Of course that's coming from a guy that will have 36 years in at the end of the month and has been hurt but never injured.


~I quit counting dead friends a long time ago, as far as injured ones...I can't count that high, being a product of public schools.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[oldwomanc6 38]

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But the full story is that skydiving has been getting safer since the 1960s.

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I would disagree, but only because MY definition of safe might be different than yours.

For my Skydiving career, a safe jump always constituted one that would allow me to pack up and make another...being dead only makes that marginally more difficult than having a bone sticking out of your jumpsuit or a foot on backwards.

Yes there have always been injuries but to my uneducated eye, there sure seems to be a whole lot more hospital visits than there were 30 years ago...even taking into account the increased membership numbers.

Perhaps on a pie chart the sport may have become somewhat less lethal but it certainly seems to be much more hazardous.

I think if you believe the sport is 'safer' than 20-30 years ago... you're not looking at the whole picture.

Of course that's coming from a guy that will have 36 years in at the end of the month and has been hurt but never injured.


~I quit counting dead friends a long time ago, as far as injured ones...I can't count that high, being a product of public schools.

Very important distinction!

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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[DaVinciflies 0]

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It seems that the manufacturers have done a good job of making our equipment more reliable and the weak point now is the soft, squidgy thing suspended in the harness.

The manufactures have done a good job of producing canopies that will kill you in a heartbeat ...

I actually changed my original post from "making our equipment safer" to "making our equipment more reliable" along the same thoughts as you posted.

[rmarshall234 13]

For my Skydiving career, a safe jump always constituted one that would allow me to pack up and make another...being dead only makes that marginally more difficult than having a bone sticking out of your jumpsuit or a foot on backwards.

Yes there have always been injuries but to my uneducated eye, there sure seems to be a whole lot more hospital visits than there were 30 years ago...even taking into account the increased membership numbers.

Perhaps on a pie chart the sport may have become somewhat less lethal but it certainly seems to be much more hazardous.

I think if you believe the sport is 'safer' than 20-30 years ago... you're not looking at the whole picture.
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I agree whole heartedly with Airtwardo and would add:

The reason this is not common knowledge is that the numbers of people paralyzed and maimed are not counted and therefore not represented in the statistics. Sure, we've been killing about 20-30 people per year in the sport for as long as I’ve been around too, but how many have had their life irreparably altered because of a canopy flight. Until this gets acknowledged and the education of canopy pilots catches up to the progression of the wing, the trend will continue.

Take all of the risks you want to folks, but do so with a firm understanding of the flight characteristics and limitations of the modern parachute and in particular, the variability of the air mass in which we fly. Pick up a related book and read it, take a flying lesson in an aircraft, study the atmosphere or physics. Anything to further your knowledge and make you a safer skydiver and canopy pilot. It will advance you personally, and will advance the sport as well.

[dqpacker 7]

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Most people who have died in car accidents, were driving perfectly good cars.

But I am not talking about people dying in cars, I am talking about skydivers dying after they opened their canopy.

Sparky

plenty of skydiver's have died after their parachutes have opened, some from old age, some cancer, some hanging themselfs while jacking off I'm sure. As aggie said go jump, which you don't do anymore, my guess is old age, that's why you post here to hold on to the past. I bet you wear skydiving shirts around just so people ask you about about skydiving.

Post away past holder-on-toer.