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PWScottIV

Stolen Re-Programmed Cypress AADs May Fire Unexpectedly

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Hi PW,

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. . . SSK (The manufacture of the Cypress AAD) . . .



SSK is not the mfr of the CYPRES devices. They are the US/North America/Western hemisphere ( pick one ) Service Center for the units.

Just to make no one misunderstands.

JerryBaumchen


Sorry, my mistake.
Gravity Waits for No One.

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This guy should be charged with attempted murder for every unit he sold that got jumped! He easily could have killed any one of the people that bought these units. As far as him just being stupid , the news said that he too was a skydiver, so I'm fairly certain he well knew what could have happened!!!>:(



.......................................................................

That reminds me of the last time we (an un-named factory) was rushing to pack display rigs for the Parachute Industry Association's Symposium. Not all of them had air-worthy canopies. Not all of them had connector links. Not all of them had steering toggles. Some were stuffed with rags. ... etc.
Anyone foolish enough steal any of those display rigs - and foolish enough to jump them - would die dishonorable death!

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Several posts threatening violence and off-topic posts regarding coaching have been removed. This is likely to be an emotive topic. Please keep it on topic regarding the units and their sale.
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Not defending the alleged perp, but do you not think it is wise to research your accusations rather than ride the flame train of blame when you havent a clue of the manufacturers of the said devices? You are muddying up the thread because what you posted is totally useless. Sorry that i'm takin out my bad day on you but i hope that you and others can get some wisdom from my post. Use search engines and then give crap precisely.
It is only a tip. Know your crap before dishing it out.
take care,
space

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Not defending the alleged perp, but do you not think it is wise to research your accusations rather than ride the flame train of blame when you havent a clue of the manufacturers of the said devices? You are muddying up the thread because what you posted is totally useless. Sorry that i'm takin out my bad day on you but i hope that you and others can get some wisdom from my post. Use search engines and then give crap precisely.
It is only a tip. Know your crap before dishing it out.
take care,
space


There's absolutely nothing wrong with speculation in the incidents forum. I have operated a product development firm for over 15 years, and my speculation along the lines of how things might have gone down are definitely relevant. If you actually read all of my posts, you'd realize that I've defended the possibility of the suspect's relative innocence. If you have a problem with the information I've posted, then cry to a moderator.
Gravity Waits for No One.

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So where is the actual information about the incident? The basic news story you mentioned really didn't say anything.

You never really defended the guy, at one point you said something about him being an idiot but that's about all.


Read the posts.
Gravity Waits for No One.

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Man I allways knew that guy was a crook. ;);):o

I thought he was totally stealing my fun ever since one of his Flock U coaches gave me free wingsuit coaching at a boogie, and Justin made me jump a intro suit, instead of something more XTREEEEEEME.

Total theft of XTREEEEEEMENESSS. I just want to flock, stay off me fun police!

But seriously I won't lay down judgement, I am not judge and jury.

It was just suprising when I saw this pop up on face book, being a small skydiving community in New England I knew of Justin, and I know the company he "sourced" the AAD's from.

What skydiver buys an AAD that is priced seriously under market value and doesn't question it. Am I wrong to think that it is common knowledge that you can value these units down to the dollar. If I could get a Cypres several hundred dollars under FMV I would want to know what is wrong with it, or who it was stolen from.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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What skydiver buys an AAD that is priced seriously under market value and doesn't question it. Am I wrong to think that it is common knowledge that you can value these units down to the dollar. If I could get a Cypres several hundred dollars under FMV I would want to know what is wrong with it, or who it was stolen from



Now you're blaming the buyers for not questioning the price? Wow.

It's common knowledge in skydiving that 'professonals' sometimes get sponsorship in the form of discounted gear. Is Sunpath gives Ian Bobo a new rig every year, it keeps him in pretty, new gear, and then he gets to sell last year's rig to put some cash in his pocket.

So this guy, who fancies himself a 'big deal' wingsuiter has a Cypres for sale below market value, and you think the buyers are to blame for not questioning the source of the product?

Even people who don't know about gear-based sponsorship probably think that 'big deal' skydivers have it made, and can afford to sell below market cost. Beyond that, who would think that someone who was tyring to (or already had) make a name for themselves in skydiving would sell a stolen Cypres, complete with a serial number that a rigger would be soon recording onto the reserve repack card? You still want to blame the buyers?

In the end, the guy was arrested and charged with larceny. I think that's the final word as to who was right or wrong in the transaction.

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what skydiver steals AAD's and thinks he can get somehow away with it!? what skydiver puts another skydiver at risk of killing themselves with said AAD's!?

speaks volumes for said skydiver.. as putting putting up for said skydiver does, IMO.
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Well he (the theif) logged in to the forum today, I'm sure he's reading this.

I know what its like for people to make mistakes, especially when there backs are against the wall (speculation) in regards to money. Maybe he'll post and at least clarify what the labels said. I can't imagine another skydiver putting other skydiviers at risk, for any amount of money. Also, I wonder if the person that had the AAD fire would post about any identifying marks or dipslays on the screen so others arent hurt.

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Now you're blaming the buyers for not questioning the price? Wow.

It's common knowledge in skydiving that 'professonals' sometimes get sponsorship in the form of discounted gear. Is Sunpath gives Ian Bobo a new rig every year, it keeps him in pretty, new gear, and then he gets to sell last year's rig to put some cash in his pocket.

So this guy, who fancies himself a 'big deal' wingsuiter has a Cypres for sale below market value, and you think the buyers are to blame for not questioning the source of the product?

Even people who don't know about gear-based sponsorship probably think that 'big deal' skydivers have it made, and can afford to sell below market cost. Beyond that, who would think that someone who was tyring to (or already had) make a name for themselves in skydiving would sell a stolen Cypres, complete with a serial number that a rigger would be soon recording onto the reserve repack card? You still want to blame the buyers?

In the end, the guy was arrested and charged with larceny. I think that's the final word as to who was right or wrong in the transaction.



I am not blaming any one... take it easy. I wasn't judging Justin, and I wasn't excusing what he is being accused of doing either. The courts and the general skydiving community will do enough of that without me weighing in.

I have purchased equipment from sposored skydivers, it is allways equipment that experince depreciation as it is used, and they upgrade for new.

That makes sense to me, they have a canopy for 300 jumps and they can get a newone. They now have an extra canopy and they sell it cheap because they either got it for free, or at a great discount.

The same doesn't make sense for an AAD. Why would a sponsored skydiver have a bunch of AAD's for sale at a discount unless he or she was reducing the number of rigs they had, or was switching to a new brand.

I would at least ask the question, why are you selling it, and why are you selling it so cheap?

When I buy gear I ask a lot of questions. When I buy anything that isn't being sold by an established retailer I ask a lot of questions. If you don't think that is a smart idea I think you should look up some of the laws around buying stolen property!

Don't be so quick to attack what I am saying just because I am not jumping on the collective pile on.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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Cops do it all the time. It's called dealing in stolen merchandise or receiving stolen goods..
If you knowingly purchase something at a rock bottom price that is SOOOOO low as to be suspect and it does in fact turn out to be stolen, chances are you can be charged with receiving stolen goods.

I suspect in the end, Justin has a clean record (criminally speaking) and will likely plea (he IS cooperating with the cops >:()...I expect him to receive a few years of probation, sentenced to time served, and have to pay full restitution. If it's like probation in Florida, chances are he will violate and then pay a heavier price.

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I think the charge of theft or whatever is the least of his problems.

An incident occurred that put someones life at risk. Fortunately no injuries ensued, sheer luck.

As an "experienced" skydiver he cannot claim ignorance of that fact.

Removing the warning stickers, is a calculated, deliberate act.

He deserves the book to be thrown at him, and to pay the most severe penalty that the law allows.

IMO it rates amongst the most despicable of acts, on a par with deliberate sabotage of someone elses gear.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Why would a sponsored skydiver have a bunch of AAD's for sale at a discount unless he or she was reducing the number of rigs they had, or was switching to a new brand.



Those are two valid options. Add to the list, the manufacturer gave him the units for resale as part of the sponsorship. These were surely used units, and maybe Airtec had priovided them as loaners rendering them as 'used' and they utilized them as 'payment' for sponsorship.

So between your two good ideas, and my one, there are three vaild and possible reasons that a sponsored jumper might be selling a batch of AADs. Contrast that to the idea that the units were stolen, and I still cannot point toward the buyers for failing to ask questions. The odds were well in their favor that the sales were legitimate.

None of this is mentioning the idea that these are life saving devices, being sold by a skydiver who is 'known' and fully aware of the consequnces of using an improperly programmed AAD, up to, and including, firing on the step and bringing down a jump plane.

It's one thing when you buy an item from a guy on the street. You don't know him, or what he knows, or possibly where to find him after the sale. In those cases, you don't want to purchase life saving equipemnt. In this case, they knew who the guy was, what he knew, and where to find him after the sale, all reasons for the buyers to trust that the deal was on the level.

It all comes back to the seller. That ass clown risked lives and took a huge dump on skydiving in general. If you're hard up for cash, go sell your bodily fluids, knock over a liquor store, or here's an idea, sell all your skydiving gear to pay for the food or shelter that you and your family needs. Unless he was destined to live in a cardbaord box, and sold everything of value he owned, this situation is unacceptable to the highest degree. Even if he was on the streets and had no possesions left, it still unacceptable, but I would have an 'ounce' of understanding for what he did.

So, how many rigs and wingsuits does he still own?

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In the end, the guy was arrested and charged with larceny. I think that's the final word as to who was right or wrong in the transaction.



I call bull$hit on that. The police have never arrested the wrong guy?
Innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until prove innocent? What if he didn't steal it? What if the guy in charge of the testing told him that he does not care what he does with the units once they were done with the testing, but once a premature opening happened and the serial was tracked to the company...suddenly they are stolen goods?
What if the reckless endangerment charge was piled on to gain leverage? Prosecutors do that all the time, they pile on every crime from here to the moon and then water it down to the ones they can get a conviction on. Suddenly everyone trusts the police and attorneys?

I think we should all take a big step back and shut up for a while. Let the court decide what happened and who is responsible. Regardless of if you like the guy or not. we can all line up to take a dump on him when they find him guilty. And in case he is innocent (and he is, until proven guilty) we can remember that due process of the law is there to protect us.

I am more concerned that there seem to be no easy way to enter an AAD serial number somewhere online and find out the history of the unit. Like the VIN with carfax or something like that. When I bought my used rig, the previous owner called Wings in Florida and they called me to confirm the serial number and ownership. It took 15 minutes to confirm the rig, reserve and main. He did have the original Cypress paperwork but unless you send them the unit, is there a way to get some info on an AAD?

Wouldn't that have made it a non-issue? The buyer goes online before shelling out $400 and checks the serial. It should have come up as a "stolen" or "testing" unit or something other than regular.

I feel bad for Justin. Not because he stole some AADs and got someone a premature opening. And not because he got caught and arrested and probably lose everything. I do feel bad that he does not get the benefit of the doubt from us. We are not judges or executioners and I don't want to be.
There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

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Third valid option:

As a seller, you don't have to tell the buyer how many units you have for sale. You could, for example, say you only have one, and that it has no use now as you don't have a rig for it. It was sponsored and you've been told you can sell it on cheap.

As long as you don't sell to people who know each other, you can replicate this story et infinitum.

I'm not saying this is what happened, just that it's a way you could sell several units under market value.
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

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I feel bad for Justin. Not because he stole some AADs and got someone a premature opening. And not because he got caught and arrested and probably lose everything. I do feel bad that he does not get the benefit of the doubt from us. We are not judges or executioners and I don't want to be.



I think you need to save more of your sympathy for the guy whose life was put at risk for the sake of a measly 400 bucks.

Your sympathy is wrongly directed IMO, towards a guy who could have been the "executioner" of an innocent skydiver.

Your idea of a database for equipment though, is a good one.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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