Skydiving bullies. Put up your hand.

[obelixtim 100]

Bullies, Skygods, Ego Titans, Wolves, Delusional Asshole.

Guilty as charged.

Trying to keep people safe on the DZ, by any method, including use of harsh words, that sensitive types can't tolerate because their feelings are hurt.

Am I the only one?.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Joellercoaster 6]

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Am I the only one?

Nope.

(Note: I'm not one of the assholes, I don't feel like I have the gravitas to pull it off. But I'm genuinely glad they're around.)

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[diablopilot 2]

So, are we going to have to go to meetings and how many "steps" are there?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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So, are we going to have to go to meetings and how many "steps" are there?

12. It's always 12 steps.

I'm not a bully. I don't have the credentails to pull it off.

But I'm perfectly willing to walk up to someone and ask their thinking when they're doing something that appears sketchy. A lot of times it gets them thinking and they take a closer look at what they are doing.

And I have no problems being a snitch. I've gone to the DZO or S&T A to point out stupidity more than once. Never got any static about it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[shropshire 0]

The point that I got from John's post (in the other thread) was that the bullying was derived from the incessant pack mentality... not the mere fact that some harsh words were spoken/written. ... and if that was in fact his point, I for one agree with him.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[diablopilot 2]

I'll proudly raise my hand as someone who values human life and this sport MORE than social niceties. Social niceties are good, but so are examples.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Squeak 17]

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Bullies, Skygods, Ego Titans, Wolves, Delusional Asshole.

Guilty as charged.

Trying to keep people safe on the DZ, by any method, including use of harsh words, that sensitive types can't tolerate because their feelings are hurt.

Am I the only one?.

Can we include, Delusional Arrogant Arsehole, if so
Pick me pick me

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Olmed 0]

I am glad to have responsible and experienced jumpers standing up for the sport! And if willing to learn, a student should be able to separate the asshole from someone who gives sound advice.

When it comes to skydiving. I think a lot of newbies go a round with themself, to realize that falling from perfectly good airplanes, is a totally new arena where other social "God-status" is not what keep you safe..

[obelixtim 100]

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So, are we going to have to go to meetings

Not unless there's beer, clubs, guns, and dirty girls...

And a nerd/idiot.

Just one.

So we can practise our techniques without fear of retaliation.

Because we have to be cowards since we are bullies...

Are we TOUGH, or what?.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[obelixtim 100]

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Can we include, Delusional Arrogant Arsehole, if so
Pick me pick me

You have to be a snivelling cowardly internet hardman as well.

Flashman is our god.

Tick the boxes...

You're in!!.,

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[popsjumper 2]

I'll 'fess up and admit that I can be an asshole when the need arises.

"You wanna be an asshole? Well, I can communicate from that standpoint too."

"You wanna be a touchy-feely? Well, I can communicate from that standpoint too....as long as the message is getting through."

But sometimes there comes a point in time.....

Have you ever had somebody thank you for the asshole approach? I have.
"Thanks for being the hard-ass. That's what I needed."
All is good.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Can we include, Delusional Arrogant Arsehole, if so
Pick me pick me

I have it on good authority that there are actually two Squeaks. One internet Delusional Arrogant Arsehole and one real life good guy.

The Delusional Arrogant Arsehole is the more entertaining.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Quote

Can we include, Delusional Arrogant Arsehole, if so
Pick me pick me

I have it on good authority that there are actually two Squeaks. One internet Delusional Arrogant Arsehole and one real life good guy.

The Delusional Arrogant Arsehole is the more entertaining.

Trust me if those who know me in person sporouted some of the crap that gets posted here, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between online and offline Squeak

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I'm here...but I'm not the asshole I use to be.

[rehmwa 2]

It's not my first response - ever.

But once the other alternatives are used, this is always an option that might be needed for certain jumpers.

But this is not a one size fits all approach - if someone finds this is always their first and only approach, then they might need to reconsider their style.

What we don't see on dz.com is all the attempts to talk and teach it that failed first before a good instructor has to be more in your face.

But it's usually most effective when one person that the student respects does it. Once it's just a giant pack of people piling on - I find the student just starts tuning it out.

Whatever works needs to be in the bag - including in your face tough love delivery - every student is different, I won't exclude any technique.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[obelixtim 100]

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It's not my first response

And I doubt very much whether it is for anyone else either. We've all been around the block enough times to know what is effective, and when.

I started this thread as a bit of a light hearted response to some of the "outrage" on display on the other thread.

A sense of humour is pretty essential at times.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I figure by the time they get here they have already gotten the answers they didn't want to here and they are fishing for someone to tell them what they want to hear.

I equate this to an experience I had once when we were canoeing. We were coming under a bridge that was 30+ ft above the water and a car stops on the bridge, some dumb ass gets out,leans over the railing and asks us how deep the water is. He was planning on jumping off the bridge.

How fucking stupid is it to ask a total stranger for information like that? I could have told him anything and there are people out there that are like that.

[Amazon 7]

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Bullies, Skygods, Ego Titans, Wolves, Delusional Asshole.

Guilty as charged.

Trying to keep people safe on the DZ, by any method, including use of harsh words, that sensitive types can't tolerate because their feelings are hurt.

Am I the only one?.

I have asked a couple people if they could do that "stunt" again so I can get it on video this time. Always go for the great learning tool

[obelixtim 100]

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How fucking stupid is it to ask a total stranger for information like that? I could have told him anything and there are people out there that are like that.

Reminds me of a joke where a guy asks the farmer how deep is the creek and the farmer indicates with his hands that its only a few inches deep, so the guy drives his car in, which immediately goes completely under the water....he jumps out and screams at the farmer

"I thought you said it was only a couple of inches deep"....

"Well it only comes halfway up our ducks"......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[rehmwa 2]

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I figure by the time they get here they have already gotten the answers they didn't want to here and they are fishing for someone to tell them what they want to hear.

absolutely



as for the thread intent......
Hey ASSHOLE!!!!

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[joephus 0]

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Bullies, Skygods, Ego Titans, Wolves, Delusional Asshole.

Guilty as charged.

Trying to keep people safe on the DZ, by any method, including use of harsh words, that sensitive types can't tolerate because their feelings are hurt.

Am I the only one?.

The problem isn't that people are skydiving bullies around here, it's that they are Internet bullies. I may be a low timer in the skydiving world, but I have been working professionally with Internet services and communities for almost 20 years and what I see around here is all too common in the Internet world. People taking conversational tones, attitudes, and addressing people in manner that if used in the real world, would eventually get them popped in the mouth.

For me, I'm used to it. I've been around this block many times before most people even realized the block existed. I cut my teeth on Internet communities way more vicious than this one so I don't mind sifting through the crap to find the gems. However that is not the case for most people. Most people aren't used to it, and will not put up with the amount of vitriol that can be produced around here. This is why the vast majority of experienced skydivers I know in the real world think this site is a joke. If I mention anything about this site other than something I saw in the classified section, people roll their eyes and go "Oh, that site?" and that's the end of the conversation. The Internet board-warrior attitude that rears it's ugly head around here all to often serves only to increase the noise to signal ratio on this site.

So sure, people can keep thinking they are doing a good thing by being a dick to somebody, but just keep in mind that for every highly experienced person with a wealth of knowledge to share that posts here, there are 10 out in the real world who wouldn't even bother typing the url for this site because of the attitudes you can find here. For every newbie that might get some help here, there are 5 who have been told don't even bother with the people at DZ.com. Unless of course, they are checking the classifieds for equipment.

I think this is a sad state of affairs and truly a shame given the potential resource this site could and should be. But it isn't because some people don't realize you don't have to be an asshole to get people to listen to you.

[davelepka 4]

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The point that I got from John's post (in the other thread) was that the bullying was derived from the incessant pack mentality... not the mere fact that some harsh words were spoken/written. ... and if that was in fact his point, I for one agree with him.

Who's to blame that the jumper in question took actions that multiple people agreed was dumb enough that they wanted to speak up? My fault? Chuck for posting it?

How do you draw the line between 'pack mentality' and a simple unanimous feeling about the actions taken and the reposnse that was due?

Bullying is one thing, what happens here is another. Bullies take a pro-active approach, and start conflict with those of a lesser stature. The one who started what happened in the other thread was the jumper in question.

He knew what he was doing, he defied the wishes of the DZ management who told him to put the Velo away, and proceeded to place himself and others at risk for no other reason than to stroke his own ego.

I'll I, or anyone esle, did was comment on what someone else did. Without that jumper taking those actions, his name or activites would have never come up or come into quesiton. This wasn't bullying, it was a newbie screwing the pooch and a bunch of dudes pointing it out.

You think I don't take my lumps? Read some of my posts and then read the responses. If I so much as make a poor word choice, or am anything less than crystal clear on exactly what I mean, there are 10 guys out there waiting the wings to point out the error.

Ditto on the DZ, the guys are just wainting for me to fuck up so they can lay into me with whatever jabs or insults they can come up with, and when I do make a mistake they'll ride it into the ground for weeks.

It's tough out there, and the solution isn't to cry 'bully' and run for the hills, it's to buck up and do better. Make better choices, do a better job and be a better example so when the haters want to hate, all they have to hate is your exceptional performance.

I understand that not everyone can be 'exceptional', but in this sport, like it or not, there is a minimum level of performance required or you end up dead, plain and simple. When someone is flirting with dropping below that minimum, it's not the time for being meek or holding back. Speak up, loud and clear, and make sure that person understands that one bad choice on a fun Sat afternoon can have lifelong consequnces, with one of them being that your life isn't going to last very long.

[davelepka 4]

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The problem isn't that people are skydiving bullies around here, it's that they are Internet bullies

Once again, I'm no bully, on the internet or in real life. I would say anthing I would type right to someones face if I had the chance, and I would defend my words and actions before a jury of my peers with 100% confidence that I was onyl saying what needed to be said.

Some people here know me in real life, and I walk the walk even more than I talk the talk. I put 100% effort into my time on the DZ, both into my own performance and the performance of the DZ machine as a whole.

You want to jump where I jump? Great, now you're a part of the machine. and if you're fucking it up, be ready to hear about it and correct the problem.

Don't fool yourself into writing this off as bullying. I explained this three other places already, but what we have here are reactions to choices and actions a jumper made on their own. Nobody singled the guy out, nobody apporached him and started shoving, he made all of his own choices, and this is the backlash. He fucked up, and fucked up big time, and this is what happens.

Don't like it? Don't fuck up. Don't want to die and early death? Don't fuck up. They go hand in hand.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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The problem isn't that people are skydiving bullies around here, it's that they are Internet bullies. I may be a low timer in the skydiving world, but I have been working professionally with Internet services and communities for almost 20 years and what I see around here is all too common in the Internet world. People taking conversational tones, attitudes, and addressing people in manner that if used in the real world, would eventually get them popped in the mouth.

For me, I'm used to it. I've been around this block many times before most people even realized the block existed. I cut my teeth on Internet communities way more vicious than this one so I don't mind sifting through the crap to find the gems. However that is not the case for most people. Most people aren't used to it, and will not put up with the amount of vitriol that can be produced around here. This is why the vast majority of experienced skydivers I know in the real world think this site is a joke. If I mention anything about this site other than something I saw in the classified section, people roll their eyes and go "Oh, that site?" and that's the end of the conversation. The Internet board-warrior attitude that rears it's ugly head around here all to often serves only to increase the noise to signal ratio on this site.

So sure, people can keep thinking they are doing a good thing by being a dick to somebody, but just keep in mind that for every highly experienced person with a wealth of knowledge to share that posts here, there are 10 out in the real world who wouldn't even bother typing the url for this site because of the attitudes you can find here. For every newbie that might get some help here, there are 5 who have been told don't even bother with the people at DZ.com. Unless of course, they are checking the classifieds for equipment.

I think this is a sad state of affairs and truly a shame given the potential resource this site could and should be. But it isn't because some people don't realize you don't have to be an asshole to get people to listen to you.

Well put.

For all the self-righteous horseshit on here, there is a wealth of experience in the real world that can be tapped without the self-aggrandizing, counter-productive aggression found here. It's virtual masturbation and it's bullshit.

It's one thing to offer firm, blunt advice. It's quite another to verbally beat the shit out of someone.

And apparently now it's cool to be a bully.

[obelixtim 100]

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The problem isn't that people are skydiving bullies around here, it's that they are Internet bullies.

Is there some way of communicating on the net that everyone can live with that we don't know about?. Like real life, people will always disagree, and that is what makes life interesting. Is robust discussion and exchange of views impossible?.

See, I just don't get this "internet bullies" tag.

As was pointed out, people have got the right of reply, and can defend themselves quite easily if they feel they have a valid argument. Most fail to do so for reasons of their own, but often its because there IS no valid argument to justify their position.

On here, several people with a lot of real life experience have come up with their points of view on an ugly cancer in our sport...specifically, senseless injuries and fatalities.

I haven't actually seen much posted by these individuals that could truly be classed as bullying.

The message is quite simple and clear. And it should be close to the heart of everyone who cares about the sport.

Good robust debate should be encouraged, yet some people seem to interpret that as unfair, over the top, or uncalled for, when in reality they have no substantial counter argument to what has been discussed.

Look back at the thread that inspired this one, and see in which direction the name calling is going....

Look at the terms I used to start this thread...all used by the PC brigade, to try to discredit the individuals posting what is basically, in skydiving, common sense.

Have they come up with better solutions/suggestions even when repeatedly invited to do so?.

No.

In my book, calling someone an idiot for demonstrated, repeated foolish behaviour, in the face of sound advice and warnings, based on previous experiences with similar individuals, is entirely warranted.

I noticed people ignored the post where I pointed out some of these same "assholes" were quick and generous with their praise when this individual posted that he had got the message.

Personally, most of us on the experienced side of this bridge are nice guys, who collectively have contributed a massive amount of positive to the sport. The characterisation of us as bullies, assholes etc etc, is unfair and over the line in my opinion...

But do we get all whiny about it?. No. We brush it off and make it into a joke. Because we do retain a sense of humour.

And for all those who refuse to use DZ.com, thats their perogative. I think its a great site, and I've learnt a lot on it, especially about disciplines which I am not too familiar with. I've seen a lot of newbies helped out as well.

If the mockers don't want to come here, its their loss.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....