Jeff.Donohue 0 #1 October 24, 2005 Here's a newbie question: I just started my coached jumps this weekend, and my coach (who I thought was great -- very helpful, etc.) mentioned that I should "watch the plane fly away" as I exited. The lift was an Otter. We were practicing basic docking (me move forward, she move back, vice versa). Unfortunately, I didn't ask her the reason for her "watch the plane..." instruction. I'm assuming this keeps me oriented in a manner that makes me less likely to float into another jumper's space. Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #2 October 24, 2005 Nope..... Theres a secret message....the secret to becoming a good skydiver.... and its written on the underside of an Otter.... You just dont get to see it when the plane is on the ground.....and did you ever wonder why the plane lands at the top of the runway ?? (its so they can hide the secret message from prying eyes.....shhhsssh?) Although reading it will put your head in a good position that helps your arch........and will keep you orientated to the run in line of the aircraft...... But its the secret message you really need to see..! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff.Donohue 0 #3 October 24, 2005 So that's why it says "Don't F_ck Up!" in big neon letters on the underbelly of the Otter. That explains a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #4 October 24, 2005 Watching the airplane fly away just after exit has a few advantageous aspects for newer jumpers: 1: Slows down the intensity of the exit. 2: Helps the jumper remain on heading to the line of flight. 3: Keeps the chin up. Whenever I exit with a student, just out the door if the student is fairly vertical and we can see the plane flying away stability is present and we are on heading. This is much more preferred to tumbling earth sky earth sky, although I must admit I rather enjoy the occasional student jump when we freefly the first half and bellyfly the second half as long as our skydiving priorities are met concerning parachute, landing and not getting hurt.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #5 October 24, 2005 Where you doing a poised or a diving exit (I'm assuming a linked exit is out of the question with your jump numbers)? If you are doing a poised exit looking up (i.e. at the plane) helps you keep a good arch. But the "secret writing" thing is certainly funnier Ciao. Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 October 24, 2005 during that time I proved repeatedly that an arch without the chin up was less than effective. Or maybe it's an extension of the common element in many sports - you tend to go where your eyes are looking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #7 October 24, 2005 Also it is just cool to see the plane... Lets you see what you are doing, but as others said, it helps with presentation forcing you to arch. One of my favorite exits for a solo (which actually will put you into either a sit, backfly, or belly, depending on your goal)... Stand in doorway of said plane with your toes on the edge... Grab your ankles with your hands, bend your knees, and roll out of the plane. You will see the plane a few times until you stop the roll by popping on your back and then watching the next group get out as the plane goes down jumprun... Now, this is not to say I am advising any student to do this, (you could be in a track/slide under another group, while on your back, so there is some danger involved) but it is fun as hell once you understand the dangers of sliding and know how to prevent them... Well, heck, half the AFF students do it, so you might as well try it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyInAus 0 #8 October 25, 2005 QuoteI just started my coached jumps this weekend, and my coach (who I thought was great -- very helpful, etc.) mentioned that I should "watch the plane fly away" as I exited. The lift was an Otter. We were practicing basic docking (me move forward, she move back, vice versa). Normally in coaching jumps (B-Rels etc.) if you are doing a straight pin you tutor will exit base and you will dive after, therefore looking at the plane on exit won't really work However if you are exiting base, hanging etc. where you are facing forward looking for the plane is good because it keeps you on heading, also ensures you arch and keep your chin up Just my $0.02 Cheers, Jason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #9 October 25, 2005 On my level 8 hop n pop i watched the plane fly away under canopy and got distracted. I didnt check my canopy properly and didnt realise the end cell closure (how dumb does that sound?) anyway i only figured out something was wrong when i done a control check. On the plus side, lesson learned1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #10 October 25, 2005 its so you can make sure that the idiot behind you doesnt get out too early ;) But for real so the you have a good clean nice on heading arched exit, that was the only tip that worked for me, when I was a student, it took me a long time to work out coming down the hill.... and then I gave it up on jump 21 and started working on sitflying ;) Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #11 October 25, 2005 Quote - you tend to go where your eyes are looking. Not if you're watching the plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #12 October 25, 2005 Me too. I had really shitty exits. It was so easy to watch the plane after having a relaxed and nice exit into the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #13 October 26, 2005 Watching the plane after exit is a tool that can help you develop good form while on the "hill". After you get a feel for it, you'll be able to perform a nice stable exit without watching the plane, it will just "feel right". I do know it helped me a lot on my first 30 or so jumps. After that, they were all dive outs or RW chunks, but I could maintain heading and stability due to the "watch the plane" practice I had done. I'd recommend it highly as a learning tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropoutdave 0 #14 October 28, 2005 Something like this? ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #15 October 29, 2005 Quoteits so you can make sure that the idiot behind you doesnt get out too early ;) Yup. Our plane has instructions on the bottom that explain how to float back up and push someone back into the plane if they exit too soon after you The comments that watching the plane fly away helps with heading control and form are right on the money in my opinion. So are the comments that it's just "plane" a cool visual Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Droolbaby 0 #16 October 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteits so you can make sure that the idiot behind you doesnt get out too early ;) Yup. Our plane has instructions on the bottom that explain how to float back up and push someone back into the plane if they exit too soon after you The comments that watching the plane fly away helps with heading control and form are right on the money in my opinion. So are the comments that it's just "plane" a cool visual I was told the person responsible for buying beer that night would be posted under the plane. ...Happiness is just a drool away....mmmmm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites traumadiver 0 #17 November 4, 2005 Okay so I am currently on my second jump and my exits are botched up. I keep telling myself watch the plane fly away and arch my skinny ass off when I exit but as we get up to altitude and I am standing on the outside of the aircraft I start to think things like "I am at 13,500 standing on the outside of an airplane, this can not be safe" I also tend to anticipate that dropping feeling which I totally despise, I think it is called the "hill" So then I do my count, I hesitate for a couple of seconds, which btw pisses off my instructor and the let go of the plane. When I do that my mind focuses so much on the drop feeling that I forget to look at the plane, hell on my last jump my instructor said that I got into a half fetal position for the first 3-4 seconds. I didnt think I did but I totally believe him. After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour. I guess I have to try again, look for the message under the plane as I fall away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #18 November 4, 2005 QuoteOkay so I am currently on my second jump and my exits are botched up. I keep telling myself watch the plane fly away and arch my skinny ass off when I exit but as we get up to altitude and I am standing on the outside of the aircraft I start to think things like "I am at 13,500 standing on the outside of an airplane, this can not be safe" I also tend to anticipate that dropping feeling which I totally despise, I think it is called the "hill" So then I do my count, I hesitate for a couple of seconds, which btw pisses off my instructor and the let go of the plane. When I do that my mind focuses so much on the drop feeling that I forget to look at the plane, hell on my last jump my instructor said that I got into a half fetal position for the first 3-4 seconds. I didnt think I did but I totally believe him. After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour. I guess I have to try again, look for the message under the plane as I fall away. You’re on your second jump… Second is the one after your first right? Number 2? Look Kevin, don’t be so hard on yourself, relax… First off I am going to say that this forum is not where you come to get the particulars on your training per se, especially while still on student status. That is what your instructors are for, listen to them. I can offer you some general things to think about. We are jumping out of a freaking airplane and the crazy part is – the plane is miles above the surface of the planet. Not exactly a tenable position for a human to be in, at least as far as your brain is concerned so you brain may be wondering “hey Kevin, what the hell are you doing?” There is noise, there is adrenalin and there is our brains disapproval of what we are doing to contend with then we hurl ourselves towards seemingly certain death and on top of all that – we tell you to RELAX… Then your brain might be asking “What? Relax? How am I supposed to relax?” As hard as it is to comprehend, relaxation is key in excelling in freefall; if you are worried about the ground then you are putting the cart before the horse. The ground doesn’t even exist until you reach your assigned deployment altitude where you initiate your main deployment sequence. Freefall is a time of freedom, it is a time of complete release from the world – there are no bills, no wars, and no worries. If you are all tensed up and your stomach muscles are tight as if you were doing crunch exercises how will you be able to push your hips forward and arch? Ever see the Matrix? There is no spoon… 100% of the students I have worked with, one of the primary hurdles to overcome is relaxation, it was the same for me and virtually every other skydiver I know. We can teach you on the ground, we can train you ad nauseam but we cannot control your brain and make you relax, we can only show you the door, you must walk through it. If knowledge that not relaxing is counter productive to your progress in freefall than I challenge you to relax, tell yourself on your way to the door – “There is no spoon, I have nothing to fear”. Calm your mind, exit the aircraft and remain relaxed. You wrote “After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour.” These two comments seem contradictory, the fact of the matter is there can be a lot of apprehension at the door if you allow it, and I did not like the hill either as most of the student I work with. You said that 5 seconds out the door you arched so why not just arch to begin with? Skydiving is the builder of self confidence and self esteem, it enables us the opportunity to overcome our brains impeding on what it is we must do. Did you ever swim as a youngster? I did a lot. I used to love getting in the deep end and float at the surface face down and slowly blow the air out of my lungs until I lost buoyancy and floated slowly to the bottom. Totally relaxed. Now what would happen if I was unable to surface? I would potentially drown but still was able to relax – Why? Because I had the confidence that I would be able to resurface and save my life. Now as an adult I jump from airplanes and I am able to totally relax in freefall - but if I fail to use my parachute I am dramatically decreasing my odds of survival but I am still able to relax – Why? Because I have every confidence that I would be able to utilize my equipment and save my life. Trust the gear Kevin, Trust your training and trust in your ability to utilize everything you have learned to save your life. Look around here on DZ.com, I have 3300 skydives, look at some other jump numbers, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, 10000 and some have even more skydives than that! That is proof positive, a sound testament in the reliability of the gear and varying individuals ability to utilize it due to the training they received that is very similar to the training you are receiving. Trust the gear, trust your training and have confidence in your ability to use it and relax in freefall. Again, I challenge you to relax, tell yourself on your way to the door – “There is no spoon, and I have nothing to fear”.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites traumadiver 0 #19 November 4, 2005 Thank you very much. Before I read your post I thought that maybe I was lagging a bit in the progression curve but I guess that idea is out the door, looks like I am where I should be...perfectionism sucks. I will try my best to relax, I guess I just need to get used to this. Again Thanx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #20 November 4, 2005 QuoteI will try my best to relax Dont "try"... Do...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #21 November 4, 2005 QuoteThank you very much. Before I read your post I thought that maybe I was lagging a bit in the progression curve but I guess that idea is out the door, looks like I am where I should be...perfectionism sucks. I will try my best to relax, I guess I just need to get used to this. Again Thanx You can't be that far off the progression curve after dive 2. (and if you are, so what?) My exits took a lot longer to get squared away than my freefall. Not to say you shouldn't be trying, but don't let a bad exit kill the rest of the dive. If you can arch and get stable after the hill, it's no different than a good exit, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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phoenixlpr 0 #12 October 25, 2005 Me too. I had really shitty exits. It was so easy to watch the plane after having a relaxed and nice exit into the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #13 October 26, 2005 Watching the plane after exit is a tool that can help you develop good form while on the "hill". After you get a feel for it, you'll be able to perform a nice stable exit without watching the plane, it will just "feel right". I do know it helped me a lot on my first 30 or so jumps. After that, they were all dive outs or RW chunks, but I could maintain heading and stability due to the "watch the plane" practice I had done. I'd recommend it highly as a learning tool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #14 October 28, 2005 Something like this? ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #15 October 29, 2005 Quoteits so you can make sure that the idiot behind you doesnt get out too early ;) Yup. Our plane has instructions on the bottom that explain how to float back up and push someone back into the plane if they exit too soon after you The comments that watching the plane fly away helps with heading control and form are right on the money in my opinion. So are the comments that it's just "plane" a cool visual Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Droolbaby 0 #16 October 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteits so you can make sure that the idiot behind you doesnt get out too early ;) Yup. Our plane has instructions on the bottom that explain how to float back up and push someone back into the plane if they exit too soon after you The comments that watching the plane fly away helps with heading control and form are right on the money in my opinion. So are the comments that it's just "plane" a cool visual I was told the person responsible for buying beer that night would be posted under the plane. ...Happiness is just a drool away....mmmmm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traumadiver 0 #17 November 4, 2005 Okay so I am currently on my second jump and my exits are botched up. I keep telling myself watch the plane fly away and arch my skinny ass off when I exit but as we get up to altitude and I am standing on the outside of the aircraft I start to think things like "I am at 13,500 standing on the outside of an airplane, this can not be safe" I also tend to anticipate that dropping feeling which I totally despise, I think it is called the "hill" So then I do my count, I hesitate for a couple of seconds, which btw pisses off my instructor and the let go of the plane. When I do that my mind focuses so much on the drop feeling that I forget to look at the plane, hell on my last jump my instructor said that I got into a half fetal position for the first 3-4 seconds. I didnt think I did but I totally believe him. After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour. I guess I have to try again, look for the message under the plane as I fall away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #18 November 4, 2005 QuoteOkay so I am currently on my second jump and my exits are botched up. I keep telling myself watch the plane fly away and arch my skinny ass off when I exit but as we get up to altitude and I am standing on the outside of the aircraft I start to think things like "I am at 13,500 standing on the outside of an airplane, this can not be safe" I also tend to anticipate that dropping feeling which I totally despise, I think it is called the "hill" So then I do my count, I hesitate for a couple of seconds, which btw pisses off my instructor and the let go of the plane. When I do that my mind focuses so much on the drop feeling that I forget to look at the plane, hell on my last jump my instructor said that I got into a half fetal position for the first 3-4 seconds. I didnt think I did but I totally believe him. After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour. I guess I have to try again, look for the message under the plane as I fall away. You’re on your second jump… Second is the one after your first right? Number 2? Look Kevin, don’t be so hard on yourself, relax… First off I am going to say that this forum is not where you come to get the particulars on your training per se, especially while still on student status. That is what your instructors are for, listen to them. I can offer you some general things to think about. We are jumping out of a freaking airplane and the crazy part is – the plane is miles above the surface of the planet. Not exactly a tenable position for a human to be in, at least as far as your brain is concerned so you brain may be wondering “hey Kevin, what the hell are you doing?” There is noise, there is adrenalin and there is our brains disapproval of what we are doing to contend with then we hurl ourselves towards seemingly certain death and on top of all that – we tell you to RELAX… Then your brain might be asking “What? Relax? How am I supposed to relax?” As hard as it is to comprehend, relaxation is key in excelling in freefall; if you are worried about the ground then you are putting the cart before the horse. The ground doesn’t even exist until you reach your assigned deployment altitude where you initiate your main deployment sequence. Freefall is a time of freedom, it is a time of complete release from the world – there are no bills, no wars, and no worries. If you are all tensed up and your stomach muscles are tight as if you were doing crunch exercises how will you be able to push your hips forward and arch? Ever see the Matrix? There is no spoon… 100% of the students I have worked with, one of the primary hurdles to overcome is relaxation, it was the same for me and virtually every other skydiver I know. We can teach you on the ground, we can train you ad nauseam but we cannot control your brain and make you relax, we can only show you the door, you must walk through it. If knowledge that not relaxing is counter productive to your progress in freefall than I challenge you to relax, tell yourself on your way to the door – “There is no spoon, I have nothing to fear”. Calm your mind, exit the aircraft and remain relaxed. You wrote “After that I arched fine it is always the exit that screws me up. I feel that if you botch your exit the rest of the dive can go sour.” These two comments seem contradictory, the fact of the matter is there can be a lot of apprehension at the door if you allow it, and I did not like the hill either as most of the student I work with. You said that 5 seconds out the door you arched so why not just arch to begin with? Skydiving is the builder of self confidence and self esteem, it enables us the opportunity to overcome our brains impeding on what it is we must do. Did you ever swim as a youngster? I did a lot. I used to love getting in the deep end and float at the surface face down and slowly blow the air out of my lungs until I lost buoyancy and floated slowly to the bottom. Totally relaxed. Now what would happen if I was unable to surface? I would potentially drown but still was able to relax – Why? Because I had the confidence that I would be able to resurface and save my life. Now as an adult I jump from airplanes and I am able to totally relax in freefall - but if I fail to use my parachute I am dramatically decreasing my odds of survival but I am still able to relax – Why? Because I have every confidence that I would be able to utilize my equipment and save my life. Trust the gear Kevin, Trust your training and trust in your ability to utilize everything you have learned to save your life. Look around here on DZ.com, I have 3300 skydives, look at some other jump numbers, 100, 500, 1000, 5000, 10000 and some have even more skydives than that! That is proof positive, a sound testament in the reliability of the gear and varying individuals ability to utilize it due to the training they received that is very similar to the training you are receiving. Trust the gear, trust your training and have confidence in your ability to use it and relax in freefall. Again, I challenge you to relax, tell yourself on your way to the door – “There is no spoon, and I have nothing to fear”.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
traumadiver 0 #19 November 4, 2005 Thank you very much. Before I read your post I thought that maybe I was lagging a bit in the progression curve but I guess that idea is out the door, looks like I am where I should be...perfectionism sucks. I will try my best to relax, I guess I just need to get used to this. Again Thanx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #20 November 4, 2005 QuoteI will try my best to relax Dont "try"... Do...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 November 4, 2005 QuoteThank you very much. Before I read your post I thought that maybe I was lagging a bit in the progression curve but I guess that idea is out the door, looks like I am where I should be...perfectionism sucks. I will try my best to relax, I guess I just need to get used to this. Again Thanx You can't be that far off the progression curve after dive 2. (and if you are, so what?) My exits took a lot longer to get squared away than my freefall. Not to say you shouldn't be trying, but don't let a bad exit kill the rest of the dive. If you can arch and get stable after the hill, it's no different than a good exit, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
