Senate Bill 1939 FAA Reauthorization Bill of 2023

[timber 3]

 I was watching YouTube last night and Dan Gryder of Probable Cause mentioned that Senate Bill 1939 has passed and is on the way for Biden's signature.  Skydiving Operations within three years will be required to operate as a certified Air Carrier under FAA Part 135 Operations.  How do you think this will affect your drop zone?  Most large drop zones will have the means to  develop and have the FAA inspect and grant certification after a lengthy and expensive process.  My guess that many drop zones will close or have to lease aircraft  from someone like Eagle Air Transport or Win Win Aviation.  This is the result of several skydiving operations aircraft accidents.  I am sure the USPA has been lobbying against it but I have not seen any news about it lately.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Welcome to the civilized world. DZs sell airplane rides to tandem “students” as the main income generator. They have long been commercial air operations, but have been able to skirt the rules due to the history of skydiving as a fringe sport. You can’t have it both ways. There will be far fewer pop-up tandem mill operations as the barrier to entry becomes more onerous. It will mostly be good for the sport, but like all change there will be a ton of resistance.

[wmw999 2,123]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Welcome to the civilized world. DZs sell airplane rides to tandem “students” as the main income generator. They have long been commercial air operations, but have been able to skirt the rules due to the history of skydiving as a fringe sport. You can’t have it both ways. There will be far fewer pop-up tandem mill operations as the barrier to entry becomes more onerous. It will mostly be good for the sport, but like all change there will be a ton of resistance.

I'd imagine it will also increase the price of both tandem and sport jumps noticeably; that might make it prohibitive for a decent number of jumpers, turning it into a more fringe sport.

Wendy P.

[johnhking1 70]

Here is a link to the part of the bill regarding parachute operations.

It will seriously affect parachute operations and eliminate many small DZ's.

You may need to copy and paste the link, I couldn't figure out how to make it clicky.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/1939/text?s=1&r=1#toc-idd83baaa6d1fc492bb32c985bc5909bef

 

 

 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

3 hours ago, timber said:

 I was watching YouTube last night and Dan Gryder of Probable Cause mentioned that Senate Bill 1939 has passed and is on the way for Biden's signature.  Skydiving Operations within three years will be required to operate as a certified Air Carrier under FAA Part 135 Operations.  How do you think this will affect your drop zone?  Most large drop zones will have the means to  develop and have the FAA inspect and grant certification after a lengthy and expensive process.  My guess that many drop zones will close or have to lease aircraft  from someone like Eagle Air Transport or Win Win Aviation.  This is the result of several skydiving operations aircraft accidents.  I am sure the USPA has been lobbying against it but I have not seen any news about it lately.

Jeez, who could have seen this coming?

[gowlerk 1,914]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I'd imagine it will also increase the price of both tandem and sport jumps noticeably; that might make it prohibitive for a decent number of jumpers, turning it into a more fringe sport.

Wendy P.

More fringe? It's not exactly mainstream as it is. Where I am having an AOC means having an Operations Manual and a Maintenance Control Manual. Once they are in place we are required to follow what our manual says we will do. Including a formalized pilot training requirement. It also means that aircraft SBs and SILs will be actioned, not just ADs. There is a cost to this, but not an unbearable one. The main difference is a higher level of accountability and professionalism is required. Most of the DZs in the US will have little problem adapting with the biggest headache being the damned paperwork. Those that won't be able to adapt are most likely ones that you learned long ago to avoid. 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Welcome to the civilized world. DZs sell airplane rides to tandem “students” as the main income generator. They have long been commercial air operations, but have been able to skirt the rules due to the history of skydiving as a fringe sport. You can’t have it both ways. There will be far fewer pop-up tandem mill operations as the barrier to entry becomes more onerous. It will mostly be good for the sport, but like all change there will be a ton of resistance.

Agreed. It sounds onerous but enforcing maintenance and pilot training standards isn't so awful. Also, the end of pop up tandem operations will be a good thing and those operators positioned to survive will gain market share and pricing strength. That's a great thing that will mean better pay for industry employees. 

[tonyhays 86]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

That's a great thing that will mean better pay for industry employees

I almost choked on my coffee reading this.  Are you referring to tandem instructors getting better pay?

[JoeWeber 2,299]

6 minutes ago, tonyhays said:

I almost choked on my coffee reading this.  Are you referring to tandem instructors getting better pay?

Yes. Everyone. Me first, certainly but DZO’s aren’t the only DZ workers affected by higher costs everywhere. The problem has been, and still is, an inability to raise prices.

[billvon 2,400]

31 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes. Everyone. 

Well, supply and demand.

Suddenly there will be the same number of TM's but less demand for them as the tandem factories close.  Their pay will tend to go down.

[gowlerk 1,914]

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, supply and demand.

Suddenly there will be the same number of TM's but less demand for them as the tandem factories close.  Their pay will tend to go down.

The key demand in the tandem supply and demand equation is not the TI, it is the paying customer. There will not be the same number of TIs, there will be a smaller number of more qualified and committed TIs on average. The overall level of professionalism will go up. Tandem factories are not going to disappear because DZs finally required to get AoCs. Tandem factories are among the most profitable of DZs. Many will do just fine thank you. It will just be harder to start a small DZ down the road from a larger one and undercut the market. 

[billvon 2,400]

46 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The key demand in the tandem supply and demand equation is not the TI, it is the paying customer.

Supply and demand applies to:

-what customers will pay for and how many tandem mills there are
-how many TI's there are and the demand for TI's
-the supply of aviation fuel vs demand for it
-how many pilots are available vs the number of seats for them

Etc etc.  It applies to everything.

Quote

The overall level of professionalism will go up.

Probably, yes.  You will be able to get a more professional TI for less money, because there will simply be more professional TI's around.  Some will be willing to work for less, some for more.  There is no reason for any DZO to hire an equally professional TI for more money if he can hire one for less money.  Indeed, if he DOES spend more than he needs to, then his tandems will cost just a little bit more than those at DZ X, and DZ X will get more business as people bargain hunt.
 

Quote

Many will do just fine thank you.

Absolutely.  And many will not as they lose their jobs due to reduced demand.

[timski 80]

I can tell you what this will do, push jumpers to BASE. Look at how "mainstream" it has become, from what it was just twenty years ago. 

I can't afford the covid price hike, let alone even higher jump prices. 

Time will tell, I guess. 

[Phil1111 911]

9 minutes ago, timski said:

I can tell you what this will do, push jumpers to BASE. ...

Hilarious.

DZs like Joe's will expand and small C182 dropzones will have serious problems. The big will get bigger and the small will likely become dust in the wind.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Phil1111

[timski 80]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

Hilarious.

On a more serious note, the other option, GET OUT of the game all together. What's that going to do for DZO's Joe? You had a good run. 

[grimmie 173]

The Bill hasn’t passed, nor is on the way to be signed by the president.

 

A LOT of discussion will be held on most of the items listed in this bill in committee.

 

We have seen this movie before, most recently with ATC payment for use by GA aircraft.

 

USPA doesn’t usually discuss what battles they are fighting until they are over. 

But hey, I still have my BASE rig, so there’s that!

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, timski said:

On a more serious note, the other option, GET OUT of the game all together. What's that going to do for DZO's Joe? You had a good run. 

Indeed, I've had a hell of a good run, opened in 1988. Crazy. I'm lucky to have fantastic staff and awesome jumpers who know I want to be gone a lot but must have the same or better safety etc. so it's easy to keep it going. Also, I really thought we'd be part 135 a decade ago and set up for the possibility, although the op's manual is probably too out of date. I can tell you with certainty that some big operators are going to have a lot of engines to overhaul and a lot of SB's and SIL's to accomplish if we go 135. They might also have some 'splainin' to do about how many hours since flight school their pilots have. 

 

[baldbrian 0]

The bill has passed the house 351-69 today, and is headed to the senate. Before its passing, last night some amendments were removed, though I can't find which.

I think subjecting parachute operations to part 135 is related to the OPC crash in 2019.

N256TA NTSB Report

"Contributing to the accident were (1) the operation of the airplane near its aft center of gravity limit and the pilot’s lack of training and experience with the handling qualities of the airplane in this flight regime; (2) the failure of Oahu Parachute Center and its contract mechanic to maintain the airplane in an airworthy condition and to detect and repair the airplane’s twisted left wing, which reduced the airplane’s stall margin; and (3) the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) insufficient regulatory framework for overseeing parachute jump operations. Contributing to the pilot’s training deficiencies was the FAA’s lack of awareness that the pilot’s flight instructor was providing substandard training."

[timber 3]

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2024-02-08/faa-reauthorization-passes-senate-committee-following