Dangerous Anniversary

[airdvr 198]

April 19. As radical as some have become I fear another OKC. 

[JoeWeber 2,324]

30 minutes ago, airdvr said:

April 19. As radical as some have become I fear another OKC. 

Well, we wouldn't want to remind anyone.

[gowlerk 1,923]

43 minutes ago, airdvr said:

April 19. As radical as some have become I fear another OKC. 

McVeigh is dead and Nichols is in supermax. You could be afraid everyday if you like. Won't make a lick of difference. 

[JoeWeber 2,324]

43 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

McVeigh is dead and Nichols is in supermax. You could be afraid everyday if you like. Won't make a lick of difference. 

Give him a break, at least he's not fretting about school shootings or gay Micky Mouse's.

[billvon 2,426]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

April 19. As radical as some have become I fear another OKC. 

Only one answer for conservatives - ADD GUNS!

[airdvr 198]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

McVeigh is dead and Nichols is in supermax. You could be afraid everyday if you like. Won't make a lick of difference. 

I'm not afraid in a personal sense.  I just finished watching the Waco doc on NetFlix.  I think many on here were either too young or not even born yet to remember.  It's disturbing on both viewpoints.  I hope the radicals see it as a failure on both sides and not just an ATF/FBI thing.

 

 

[wmw999 2,146]

Im definitely old enough to remember, and I do see it as both — just as I see Ruby Ridge as both

Wendy P. 

[airdvr 198]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Give him a break, at least he's not fretting about school shootings or gay Micky Mouse's.

Actually I do fret about school shootings.  I think Mini might have more of a problem with Mickey's proclivities.

[JoeWeber 2,324]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Only one answer for conservatives - ADD GUNS!

I need to distribute a few more guns and then I'm good for me. They're only going to hunters who are active and responsible. I guess I could make a statement and selfie myself tossing them off a dam but somehow that's not me. If it was a movement, however, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[JerryBaumchen 1,061]

42 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Im definitely old enough to remember, and I do see it as both — just as I see Ruby Ridge as both

Wendy P. 

Hi Wendy,

I also remember both.  I do not share the argument that the errors made by both sides are equal.  Deaths in both events could have been avoided if they had just not fought the authorities.

Anybody who thinks that their guns are to protect themselves [ and/or their families ] from the gov't is a fool.

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 1,644]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

 

Anybody who thinks that their guns are to protect themselves [ and/or their families ] from the gov't is a fool.

Jerry Baumchen

Yes, but that's not much of an insight, Jerry.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:30 PM, airdvr said:

I'm not afraid in a personal sense.  I just finished watching the Waco doc on NetFlix.  I think many on here were either too young or not even born yet to remember.  It's disturbing on both viewpoints.  I hope the radicals see it as a failure on both sides and not just an ATF/FBI thing.

 

 

I mean the irony of Republicans defending the pedophile Koresh while being really upset about crossdressers is rather funny.

[BIGUN 1,069]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I mean the irony of Republicans defending the pedophile Koresh while being really upset about crossdressers is rather funny.

No. No, nope, NO. It was about how ~13 fucking agencies couldn't come up with a better plan that DID NOT result in 25 children and two pregnant women dying as a result of the assault. 

[gowlerk 1,923]

11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

No. No, nope, NO. It was about how ~13 fucking agencies couldn't come up with a better plan that DID NOT result in 25 children and two pregnant women dying as a result of the assault. 

I guess it depends on the spin and your point of view. The American right tends to get upset about this, but they are ok, or at least say nothing about the Philadelphia Move bombing.  

Edited April 10, 2023 by gowlerk

[BIGUN 1,069]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The American right tends to get upset about this, but they are ok, or at least say nothing about the Philadelphia Move bombing.  

Oh Look!!! He's on to something - let's throw some shit over here and see if he smells it.

[gowlerk 1,923]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

Oh Look!!! He's on to something - let's throw some shit over here and see if he smells it.

Both events were about over zealous law enforcement agencies losing patience costing unnecessary loss of life. One became a symbol of all that is wrong with government over reach for some people. One is a symbol embraced by a very different group of citizens. The main reason for the difference? You tell me. And yes it stinks. 

[ryoder 1,396]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

No. No, nope, NO. It was about how ~13 fucking agencies couldn't come up with a better plan that DID NOT result in 25 children and two pregnant women dying as a result of the assault. 

Back at the time, I heard some of the locals were saying that Koresh walked into town alone once a week, and they could easily have grabbed him then. I don't know if this was true.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

No. No, nope, NO. It was about how ~13 fucking agencies couldn't come up with a better plan that DID NOT result in 25 children and two pregnant women dying as a result of the assault. 

They could have just dropped a bomb on it and not a single Republican would have cared....

Why do Republicans care about protecting Branch Davidian's and don't care about bombing protestors in Philly?

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

Back at the time, I heard some of the locals were saying that Koresh walked into town alone once a week, and they could easily have grabbed him then. I don't know if this was true.

There were a lot of things that were being said.

That was one of them.
Another was that the Sheriff & Koresh were friends, and the sheriff could have easily brought him in if the ATF had asked. 
Yet another was the claim that the ATF basically shot first and asked questions later. The building was bulldozed almost immediately after the fire, any of the evidence (including the front door that was full of bullet holes) was destroyed.

There were a LOT of aspects of the whole case that raised questions. 
None of those questions were ever adequately answered, AFAIK.

The congressional hearings that were supposed to answer those questions were sidetracked from the start by the accusations of child molestation. While those were credible accusations, they only showed up AFTER THE EVENT. 

The story for why the ATF went in changed a bunch of times during the siege. 
From 'illegal machine guns' (they found a lot of guns, but only a couple that were illegal) to 'manufacturing meth' (that one quickly 'disappeared').

Keep in mind that Koresh was never charged, tried or convicted of any crimes.

[BIGUN 1,069]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Why do Republicans care about protecting Branch Davidian's and don't care about bombing protestors in Philly?

Why do Canadians allow the genocide and sexual assault of Indigenous peoples? Now, if you want to have a conversation about that incident, then let's do it with some form of decorum. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by BIGUN

[gowlerk 1,923]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The story for why the ATF went in changed a bunch of times during the siege. 

Four of their agents were killed in the initial attempt to raid the compound. That would be the main reason they were so pissed off.  What do you expect when that happens to a federal law enforcement agency?

 

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

those questions were sidetracked from the start by the accusations of child molestation. While those were credible accusations, they only showed up AFTER THE EVENT. 

This is untrue. Allegations of sexual abuse including that of children were published in the local Waco newspaper on Feb.27th weeks before the raid. 

Edit, I now realize that Feb 27 was only one day before the initial raid, but weeks before the tragic assault.

Edited April 10, 2023 by gowlerk

[gowlerk 1,923]

44 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Why do Canadians allow the genocide and sexual assault of Indigenous peoples? Now, if you want to have a conversation about that incident, then let's do it with some form of decorum. 

Let me just get this straightened out once and for all. Both you and Joe (W) can take your flag waving indignation about foreigners daring to criticize your glorious nation and well.......express it all you want, I will mostly ignore as the distraction that it is. This is an international forum and just like America you can love it or leave it. I hope that is a decorous enough statement for you. I am not American, that does not mean I don't like America and it certainly doesn't mean I am not allowed to find fault in what is going on in America. You may have noticed there has been quite a shit show going on there for a few years now. So has the rest of the world. Yes, you are still better than Russia, China, and a whole bunch of shithole countries as well. But as long as you hold the world's reserve currency and enough weapons to change the population of the planet in a few hours, and dominate the English language news cycle we are all going to notice you and gossip about you as well. If you don't want the neighbours talking about you close the blinds while you are having your family fight. And try to keep the bullets contained within your own walls while you are at it. 

If you want to talk about the plight of Canadian First Nations people I am more than willing. After all I live in Winnipeg and it has close to the highest population percentage of native people in the country. My daughter in law is a treaty card holder. I am familiar with the issues and you are correct in thinking that they have some close parallels with oppressed groups in your country. 

[BIGUN 1,069]

8 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Both you and Joe (W) can take your flag waving indignation about foreigners daring to criticize your glorious nation and well.......express it all you want,

So, pretty much you and Sky will stop attacking me for being Republican if I don't attack you for being Canadian and we stick to the issues, eh?

[SkyDekker 1,141]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Why do Canadians allow the genocide and sexual assault of Indigenous peoples?

Because there are a lot of racist people. Thankfully things are very slowly changing, starting with actually acknowledging what has happened before being able to reconcile. We even have a national day dedicated to Truth and Reconciliation.

None of that changes the irony of the sudden defense of Koresh. I have a hard time believing it really is the excessive force used by various alphabet and government agencies, when you had a police service actually dropping a bomb on a house and nobody really talks about it.

Canada is far from perfect, but recognizing racism exists is certainly a step in the better direction when comparing the two countries.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

So, pretty much you and Sky will stop attacking me for being Republican if I don't attack you for being Canadian and we stick to the issues, eh?

I don't "attack" you for being Republican. I do from time to time "attack" Republicans.