Christians don’t believe in Democracy

[jakee 1,257]

45 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

It is 100% guaranteed that every single one of us will translate that original sinful nature into our own, without exception, with a lifetime of sinful actions

Lol.

Jay: You alone are responsible for breaking God's laws!

Also Jay: The great thing about Christianity is it says you're born into instant sin, will continue sinning through your entire life and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it!

[lippy 775]

50 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Joe, do you have to teach a baby, toddler, teenager to be selfish? You have to teach them to not be selfish, correct? It is 100% guaranteed that every single one of us will translate that original sinful nature into our own, without exception, with a lifetime of sinful actions, each of which becomes our responsibility. Of course, a baby or young person who doesn't know right from wrong yet isn't responsible and, therefore, accountable. They are still sinful. 

So would you say that parents of non-Cristian babies are wasting their time teaching their kids not to be selfish since they’ll never get into heaven anyways? 

[jaybird18c 4]

38 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi jakee,

I am no expert on religion for sure. 

However, this comment is directly opposite of what I was taught 60+ yrs ago:  Who has led a proper and pious life according to God's standard of righteousness, which is the one you will ultimately be judged by, one without even an once of selfishness, pride, covetousness, hatred, adultery, lies, etc.?

It was 1956 & I was taking a Bible Study class with my brother.  My brother spent his time in class chatting up the girls, I spent my time 'discussing' religion with the pastor.

I specifically remember him telling me that I could live a wild & crazy, sinful, wicked life, but, if I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior prior to my death, I would enter the Kingdom of God.

THAT is when I called it quits on the stupidity of it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Jerry Baumchen

God does NOT need our "acceptance." We need HIS!  I realize that asking Jesus into your heart is probably the most popular catch phrase in American evangelicalism these days. It's certainly the mantra of folks like Billy Graham. I liked Billy Graham, by the way. I don't question his salvation or his motivation. I just disagree with some of his approach. Anyway, could one lead a life of total rebellion and then on their death bed, repent, submit to God's authority, and be saved? Yes. The thief on the cross is an example of that. However, one should not use that example casually.

God knows your heart. It is likely that if someone leads an entire life of rebellion, he/she is probably not saved. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck...probably a duck. A profession of faith does not save you. Being baptized does not save you. Faithful attendance of church does not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ saves. And if he changes you, you will be changed. It will be evident in your life.

[jaybird18c 4]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Then why did you post this: "In sin did my mother conceive me" as if it were a truth of the Christian faith? Either it means that the act is sinful in and of itself or it is sinful because everything we do is sinful owing to our being made sinners before our eyes first saw light.

I quoted Paul Washer. I've met him in person. I knew what he meant.

[jaybird18c 4]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

So in your anecdote you agree with the Jew and the Muslim? 

Agree with the Jew and the Muslim about what?

[jaybird18c 4]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Lol.

Jay: You alone are responsible for breaking God's laws!

Also Jay: The great thing about Christianity is it says you're born into instant sin, will continue sinning through your entire life and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it!

Nothing "You" or "I" can do about it. But God can. He can change your nature, direct your conscience.

[jaybird18c 4]

1 hour ago, lippy said:

So would you say that parents of non-Cristian babies are wasting their time teaching their kids not to be selfish since they’ll never get into heaven anyways? 

The Bible implies that babies and those who aren't capable of understanding are accounted for by God's grace. And God can and does save people out of many circumstances, even that of being raised by atheist parents.

[JoeWeber 2,325]

15 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

I quoted Paul Washer. I've met him in person. I knew what he meant.

I know you were quoting him. Please try to explain what he meant, which you believe, in a way that doesn't rely on the listener believing something before they're told what they are being asked to believe.

[JoeWeber 2,325]

12 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

The Bible implies that babies and those who aren't capable of understanding are accounted for by God's grace

So you think we should organize our lives around a bundle of vague implications? Can you understand why that's a non-starter for more and more people all of the time?

[wmw999 2,146]

29 minutes ago, jaybird18c said:

Nothing "You" or "I" can do about it. But God can. He can change your nature, direct your conscience.

The thing I find troubling about the "personal experience" approach is the experience of (for example) Mother Teresa, who said that she felt separated from God for much of her later life. As well as the people who have had saving experiences, but ended up in bad, abusive, churches, and people who want to have saving experiences, but never have.

Are they rejected by God? It sounds as though the personal acceptance is up to God, and no matter how one opens one's heart (or tries to), God can still reject them, simply by not proving the "proof."

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 913]

Gods dont kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Phil1111 913]

The world holds two classes of men; intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.

[gowlerk 1,923]

7 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

He is stating that by command of a god no human is born innocent but instead are sin criminals; scapegoats for a supreme being who are further commanded to fix themselves before the penalty for simply coming into existence gets a whole lot worse. Furthering the misery is the knowledge that your sinful existence is a consequence of your mother engaging in perfectly natural activities that few amongst us have the will power to resist. Such twisted thinking is obvious nonsense to anyone not brainwashed to receive it as knowledge.

So like so many things in religion it comes down to misogyny?

[JoeWeber 2,325]

33 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The world holds two classes of men; intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.

The existence of God is easily provable to anyone who first opens their mind to the existence of God and accepts the Bible as his Word.

[kallend 1,644]

Funny how the OT god was all vengeance and jealousy, who would smite people (or populations) down for the slightest infractions (after all, what sin did the Egyptian firstborn commit that they all had to be killed, for just one example). 

Then the OT god must have had sessions with a therapist and became all lovey dovey in the NT.  Love thy neighbor. . . , he who is without sin. . . etc.

Or maybe it's just multiple personality disorder.

Then again maybe it's all mumbo-jumbo.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

13 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I have yet to see or hear God do ANY of the 'threatening'.

It's always the 'true believers'.

 

12 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Deuteronomy 32:35

Thanks for proving my point.

[lippy 775]

12 minutes ago, kallend said:

Funny how the OT god was all vengeance and jealousy, who would smite people (or populations) down for the slightest infractions (after all, what sin did the Egyptian firstborn commit that they all had to be killed, for just one example). 

Then the OT god must have had sessions with a therapist and became all lovey dovey in the NT.  Love thy neighbor. . . , he who is without sin. . . etc.

Or maybe it's just multiple personality disorder.

Then again maybe it's all mumbo-jumbo.

I’ll take door #3, please. 
 

I have friends of faith who I enjoy spending time with. With one, it was an early conversation in the friendship the first time they tried to ‘save’ me: believe what you want, I’m open to discussing it, but don’t go preaching.

If faith makes somebody’s life better then kudos to them: who’s not looking for a tool to make life better?!? Just don’t use your faith as a weapon against others. 
 

Apparently, as read above, God grants ‘sin exemptions’ for babies and the mentally impaired. Does God view other religions as mentally impaired or will they all burn in hell too? (Asking for a friend)

[JoeWeber 2,325]

25 minutes ago, lippy said:

I’ll take door #3, please. 
 

I have friends of faith who I enjoy spending time with. With one, it was an early conversation in the friendship the first time they tried to ‘save’ me: believe what you want, I’m open to discussing it, but don’t go preaching.

If faith makes somebody’s life better then kudos to them: who’s not looking for a tool to make life better?!? Just don’t use your faith as a weapon against others. 
 

Apparently, as read above, God grants ‘sin exemptions’ for babies and the mentally impaired. Does God view other religions as mentally impaired or will they all burn in hell too? (Asking for a friend)

I too am all for people taking comfort in whatever will make the one life they will ever have more pleasant. Unfortunately for too many believers like Jay and Ron,  no matter how they protest, the truth is they will never be happy until you and I believe it too.

[jaybird18c 4]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

The thing I find troubling about the "personal experience" approach is the experience of (for example) Mother Teresa, who said that she felt separated from God for much of her later life. As well as the people who have had saving experiences, but ended up in bad, abusive, churches, and people who want to have saving experiences, but never have.

Are they rejected by God? It sounds as though the personal acceptance is up to God, and no matter how one opens one's heart (or tries to), God can still reject them, simply by not proving the "proof."

Wendy P.

There has never been a person rejected by God who repented and placed their faith in Jesus Christ, whatever their circumstance or perceived experience.

[Phil1111 913]

17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I too am all for people taking comfort in whatever will make the one life they will ever have more pleasant. Unfortunately for too many believers like Jay and Ron,  no matter how they protest, the truth is they will never be satisfied until you and I are forced to believe it, or submit to it.

FIFY. Hence "God, guns and country" for the christian right and in that order. Dominion theology is the objective of Christians.

p.s. The title of the thread is correct.

[JoeWeber 2,325]

11 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

FIFY. Hence "God, guns and country" for the christian right and in that order. Dominion theology is the objective of Christians.

p.s. The title of the thread is correct.

Alright, I agree with the corrections. The real issue is that we need to understand that they aren't telling us the truth. We're all mostly agreeable to the idea that Muslims are permitted in the Koran to lie to infidels in defense of the faith and for that we scorn them. But somehow, we are able to ignore that is the same privilege Christians claim. That needs to be called out at each opportunity.

[Phil1111 913]

49 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Alright, I agree with the corrections. The real issue is that we need to understand that they aren't telling us the truth. We're all mostly agreeable to the idea that Muslims are permitted in the Koran to lie to infidels in defense of the faith and for that we scorn them. But somehow, we are able to ignore that is the same privilege Christians claim. That needs to be called out at each opportunity.

They enjoy many freedoms and advantages politically(unlimited lobbying), economically(taxation), etc.

Book burning, control over the GOP, control over the USSC allows them to excise outsized influences over society. They aim such controls not for altruistic reasons but solely for control over all of the population and state.

All of which is fundamentally undemocratic if not evil.

[jakee 1,257]

8 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Agree with the Jew and the Muslim about what?

Dancing around like that is not a good look. If you think it makes you seem clever, you’re sorely mistaken.

[jakee 1,257]

8 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Nothing "You" or "I" can do about it. But God can. He can change your nature, direct your conscience.

So there are two atheists spending a life of sin and deviancy (or as I would say, being perfectly decent human beings) and they’re both going to be punished for eternity. 

Then god decides to change the nature and direct the conscience of one of those atheists. But if the other one still ends up being punished, he shouldn’t blame god for not bothering to help him out of a situation that wasn’t his fault in the first place? 

[jakee 1,257]

8 hours ago, jaybird18c said:

Anyway, could one lead a life of total rebellion and then on their death bed, repent, submit to God's authority, and be saved? Yes. The thief on the cross is an example of that. However, one should not use that example casually.

Only faith in Jesus Christ saves. 

Right, you’re saying god doesn’t give a shit about whether you’ve tried to be a good person. I really don’t see why you ever denied it.

Edited August 27, 2023 by jakee