Abortion Commentary

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

8 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

...  Are you OK with women having fewer rights than A DEAD BODY and writing that into law?  Oversimplification, but I have stated it a few ways several times.

Address that.

FIFY 

[BIGUN 1,071]

29 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

Are you OK with women having fewer rights than men and writing that into law?  Oversimplification, but I have stated it a few ways several times.

Address that.

I did a couple of times but most recently in post #547

[kallend 1,647]

18 hours ago, BIGUN said:

OK. Let's use TK's argument. Why are guns my, your or the government's business? Because they kill. 

Are they part of your body?

[BIGUN 1,071]

53 minutes ago, kallend said:

Are they part of your body?

I think we've reached the end of this discussion. We all have a position somewhere on a sliding scale in which even both sides find moments of intersection.  Needless to say, this will be a contentious subject in this election cycle. 

[SkyDekker 1,145]

59 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I think we've reached the end of this discussion. We all have a position somewhere on a sliding scale in which even both sides find moments of intersection.  Needless to say, this will be a contentious subject in this election cycle. 

Seems to be an issue that may cost the GOP some votes, specially if DNC can create a perception the GOP is gunning for a full national ban.

[TriGirl 277]

The other card-carrying woman here (though I have been absent a bit!).  Anyone impregnated should be able to get her own treatment from a provider who is trained and still willing to perform the procedure.   

"Late term" is not a thing.  "Later abortions" happen after a fetus is expected to be developed to viability and can survive outside the uterus but are necessary due to something non-viable about the fetus (it will never be viable outside a uterus).  To force someone to continue growing a fetus that will never grow a brain, or statistically speaking has a 98% chance of not surviving due to ruptured amniotic sac or other complications, or for myriad other medical issues that none of us NOT trained in obstetrics fully understand, is cruel, dangerous and unethical. 

Anyone trained in the science who is willing to perform the procedure in-office or by medications (has taken an oath to do no harm and still feels the procedure is appropriate), should be able to provide that health care to the patient who wants it.

[kallend 1,647]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Are they part of your body?

 

I think we've reached the end of this discussion. We all have a position somewhere on a sliding scale in which even both sides find moments of intersection.  Needless to say, this will be a contentious subject in this election cycle. 

This is about bodily autonomy.  YOU brought up the irrelevant gun and now you cop-out.  Guns are not in the slightest bit relevant to whether the government, the Pope, or anyone else should be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body.

I have no intersection whatever with anyone who thinks otherwise.

[BIGUN 1,071]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

YOU brought up the irrelevant gun and now you cop-out.  Guns are not in the slightest bit relevant

TK brought up the irrelevant gun in post #534

 

1 hour ago, kallend said:

I have no intersection whatever with anyone who thinks otherwise.

Ya know professor. I really don't care. There is a greater majority in this country that feel there should be some scientific datapoint where we all acknowledge that after that point - terminating a child is killing it.

You addressed the question of one day before delivery by screeching the woman's rights; but you never really said if you were ok with it or not. So, how about you address that question or is it too "icky" for you? 

 

[JoeWeber 2,326]

20 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

TK brought up the irrelevant gun in post #534

 

Ya know professor. I really don't care. There is a greater majority in this country that feel there should be some scientific datapoint where we all acknowledge that after that point - terminating a child is killing it.

You addressed the question of one day before delivery by screeching the woman's rights; but you never really said if you were ok with it or not. So, how about you address that question or is it too "icky" for you? 

 

Late term abortions done for shits and giggles do not happen so going there is going nowhere. Nor is the decision made by a back room coin toss. I can hardly think of a more serious, weighty, and difficult decision to be made. As such, it must be made without any interference by any organization and only by the woman and her doctors. What that means is that I would always err on the side of the chance for abortions being made in error or owing to bad medical advice and not at all owing to some arbitrary point in time you and I agreed upon for what can only be seen as specious reasons.

[BIGUN 1,071]

49 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

it must be made without any interference by any organization and only by the woman and her doctors. What that means is that I would always err on the side of the chance for abortions being made in error or owing to bad medical advice and not at all owing to some arbitrary point in time you and I agreed upon for what can only be seen as specious reasons.

You're right.

Edited April 30 by BIGUN

[kallend 1,647]

12 hours ago, BIGUN said:

TK brought up the irrelevant gun in post #534

 

Ya know professor. I really don't care. There is a greater majority in this country that feel there should be some scientific datapoint where we all acknowledge that after that point - terminating a child is killing it.

You addressed the question of one day before delivery by screeching the woman's rights; but you never really said if you were ok with it or not. So, how about you address that question or is it too "icky" for you? 

 

Lots of things related to biology are icky. Most of them are none of my business.  What a woman does with her own body is one of those "none of my business" things.

[kallend 1,647]

Arizona legislators do the right thing.  Even two Republican state senators found a backbone.

[JoeWeber 2,326]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Even two Republican state senators found a backbone.

They must have teen age girls or girlfriends.

[gowlerk 1,924]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Arizona legislators do the right thing.  Even two Republican state senators found a backbone.

Sort of the right thing. There is still the small matter of the 15 week ban.

[kallend 1,647]

The longest journey starts with the first step.

[gowlerk 1,924]

14 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

They must have teen age girls or girlfriends.

Even better, one of them is a woman.

[tkhayes 140]

19 hours ago, kallend said:

Arizona legislators do the right thing.  Even two Republican state senators found a backbone.

"the right thing" over partisan ideology.

That is pretty rare these days in the USA

[okalb 79]

19 hours ago, tkhayes said:

"the right thing" over partisan ideology.

That is pretty rare these days in the USA

They didn't do it because it is the right thing. They did it because an abortion protection amendment is on the ballot in AZ in November and they want to be able to say that you don't need to vote for it because we already took care of the problem. If they didn't think they would get crushed for it in Nov, they would have  left it the way it was.

[tkhayes 140]

3 hours ago, okalb said:

They didn't do it because it is the right thing. They did it because an abortion protection amendment is on the ballot in AZ in November and they want to be able to say that you don't need to vote for it because we already took care of the problem. If they didn't think they would get crushed for it in Nov, they would have  left it the way it was.

yup any anyone that thinks the GOP and the christian right is going to stop at a 6 week ban is fucking delusional.  Today in Texas.... and I expect his legal fight will be well-funded by some extremist assholes.  Let's hope women show up in November.

Texas man files legal action to probe ex-partner’s out-of-state abortion - The Washington Post

 

Danny Burgess, State Senator in Florida (who I ran against in 2018 for State House) has stated many times 'I will not stop until there are no more abortions'.  He has no justification for his beliefs other than he is Catholic.  And he enjoys massive overwhelming electoral support in the area because he's a good ol' wholesome local boy with a nice family.

[gowlerk 1,924]

Extremists draw prison sentences for trying to violently impose their will on others.

https://apnews.com/article/lauren-handy-abortion-clinic-blockade-ab461332b6c83d1c4d7f4d6175d04fbc