Phil1111 910 #51 March 28, 2022 1 minute ago, SkyDekker said: There is nothin in that pdf that defines what a male and a female athlete is. The case regarding Caster Semenya for instance took many, many years to come to an "end". Even then it wasn't decided based on a determination of male or female, but a decision around the testosterone levels in the body. I hate to be the one who informs you and Brent. But sporting events of every nature have gone on. Without politicians having to define this issue in statutes. This year and next. The IOC has said its not up to them. Individual sports have, surprisingly, been able to function. To hold competitions. Nationally and internationally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #52 March 28, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: I hate to be the one who informs you and Brent. But sporting events of every nature have gone on. Without politicians having to define this issue in statutes. This year and next Not disputing that. Disputing that sporting organization have well established rules and regulations around this. NCAA will likely change their regulations again. Athletes have been unable to participate due to sporting organizations being unable to come to agreement whether an athlete is male or female. This continues to be a very contentious issue in sports. Stating that all is fine because sporting events have taken place is rather silly. Edited March 28, 2022 by SkyDekker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,912 #53 March 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: What is the legal definition of a woman? There likely isn't one. It has never been needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #54 March 28, 2022 To misquote Justice Potter Stewart's concurrence in Jacobellis vs Ohio: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of person I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know one when I date one. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #55 March 28, 2022 22 minutes ago, gowlerk said: There likely isn't one. It has never been needed. One I found said it was a US citizen with the female gender. Guess there are no women outside of the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,912 #56 March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: One I found said it was a US citizen with the female gender. Guess there are no women outside of the US. When women were not allowed to vote was there a legal definition of a man? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #57 March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, gowlerk said: When women were not allowed to vote was there a legal definition of a man? Nah. That was a time when Men were real Men, Women were real Women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #58 March 29, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 2:29 PM, billvon said: Sex is biological. Gender is societal. Not that hard. Gender is a GRAMMATICAL construct (he/she/it). Even easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #60 April 4, 2022 It's easy to post this shit here, where you're not knowingly offending actual people with gender differences. I'll bet you enjoy snickering behind their backs with your buddies in the locker room (maybe you consider this your virtual locker room), and would have been perfectly happy to share racist or sexist jokes with your "buds," assuming that you'd be the one to stick around. Lucky for you, offensive posts are not against the rules. They're just offensive. As it happens, I'm female. So have at it -- post the sexist jokes about whining, breaking fingernails, parking skills, financial habits, panties in a wad, and whatever else floats your boat. We all know what it means, and the number of bros to snicker with you is going down all the time. If you don't care what we think, why post? Here, you're not in the majority or in power. Wendy P. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #61 April 4, 2022 BTW, yes, that was a funny movie, with a lot of classic lines. As was Airplane. But even in those days, there were people you couldn't really enjoy them with, because of how they might feel about it. Just like it'd be hard to enjoy Gone With The Wind, or Little Black Sambo with your African American friend. I had a favorite third grade reader about pioneer history. I reread it as an adult. It didn't stand up, because there were no immigrants, no Native Americans, no African Americans, anywhere. The men were all alive, and there were no widows or orphans. Not telling children about them doesn't protect them. Focusing on them doesn't answer, just include people who make the history rich, rather than clean. Treat them with the respect you'd expect for yourself. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #62 April 5, 2022 18 hours ago, wmw999 said: BTW, yes, that was a funny movie, with a lot of classic lines. As was Airplane. But even in those days, there were people you couldn't really enjoy them with, because of how they might feel about it. Just like it'd be hard to enjoy Gone With The Wind, or Little Black Sambo with your African American friend. I had a favorite third grade reader about pioneer history. I reread it as an adult. It didn't stand up, because there were no immigrants, no Native Americans, no African Americans, anywhere. The men were all alive, and there were no widows or orphans. Not telling children about them doesn't protect them. Focusing on them doesn't answer, just include people who make the history rich, rather than clean. Treat them with the respect you'd expect for yourself. Wendy P. Little Black Sambo was Burmese, not African. You will note that the story involved running away from a tiger, rather than a lion or a leopard. If you encounter a tiger in Africa, you are in a zoo. Tigers are Asian, as was Sambo. The question of 'what is a woman' is reasonably straightforward, and has precious little to do with lifestyle. If someone is of the XY persuasion, no amount of self-identification and/or vivisection will make them an XX type. This is neither good nor bad, it is just reality. If someone wants to live as someone or something that they are not, it's a free country (after a fashion). One should, however, take care not to 'self-identify' as something that carries consequences. Self-identifying as, say, a Police Lieutenant or a Hell's Angel, even at a costume party, may not work out well if the real deal is present. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #63 April 5, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, winsor said: The question of 'what is a woman' is reasonably straightforward, and has precious little to do with lifestyle. If someone is of the XY persuasion, no amount of self-identification and/or vivisection will make them an XX type. This is neither good nor bad, it is just reality. Reality is that you cannot see genes. Reality is that people tend to try to identify male and female visually. Reality is that leads to all kinds of problems. Edited April 5, 2022 by SkyDekker 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #64 April 5, 2022 8 hours ago, winsor said: The question of 'what is a woman' is reasonably straightforward, and has precious little to do with lifestyle. If someone is of the XY persuasion, no amount of self-identification and/or vivisection will make them an XX type. This is neither good nor bad, it is just reality. OK. If you have a child, and at birth that child has a vagina, ovaries and (later) breasts, and tests as XY - what are they? In Winsor's reality? What will you make them identify as? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #65 April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: Reality is that you cannot see genes. Reality is that people tend to try to identify male and female visually. Reality is that leads to all kinds of problems. Nice try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #66 April 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, winsor said: Nice try. Nice try? Reality is that you assign pronouns and gender to a person on visuals clues alone. I can guarantee you have never asked a person about their genetic makeup before addressing them as he or she. That is reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #67 April 5, 2022 Just look at virtually all of Brent’s additions to this thread, including the starter, and consider some women who look more masculine, and say it ain’t so. Also consider the military doesn’t do sex tests before deciding what gender they are Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #68 April 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, wmw999 said: Just look at virtually all of Brent’s additions to this thread, including the starter, and consider some women who look more masculine, and say it ain’t so. Also consider the military doesn’t do sex tests before deciding what gender they are Wendy P. They figure that out after the first shower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #69 April 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, brenthutch said: They figure that out after the first shower And the XY who looks like a woman? What gender are they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #70 April 5, 2022 41 minutes ago, billvon said: And the XY who looks like a woman? What gender are they? In the shower? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #71 April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: In the shower? Is there a different definition of a woman in a shower? Didn't you start this thread lamenting somebody wasn't defining what a woman was? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #72 April 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Is there a different definition of a woman in a shower? Could be he does have a different definition of a woman in a shower. Hey, no skin off my nose but you definitely have me curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #73 April 6, 2022 3 hours ago, brenthutch said: In the shower? I should have known you'd try to dodge the question, since you're not here for anything other than to provoke people. My bad for taking you seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #74 April 6, 2022 1 hour ago, billvon said: I should have known you'd try to dodge the question, since you're not here for anything other than to provoke people. My bad for taking you seriously. Sorry I am speaking from a position of experience with regard to military. Here is some perspective Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #75 April 6, 2022 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: Sorry I am speaking from a position of experience with regard to military. Of course you are. I bet you once had a trans woman in your command, and you have a story about that that will totally piss off the libs. (And if you don't have one now, I am sure you will think one up by tomorrow.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites