Electric vehicle charging network

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

Hi folks,

I own two 2015 vehicles, both gas-powered, from a mfr with a great reputation for reliability, that I think will be the last cars that I will ever own.  However, I do see the proliferation of EV's to continue & expand.

What's in the White House plan to expand electric car charging network : NPR

From the article:  A big barrier to buying an electric vehicle . . . is figuring out where and how to charge it.

I've been thinking about this charging network problem. *  I think the answer might be to just use existing gas stations & convert one bay to EV's only.  The real estate is already there; only a larger electrical feed would be req'd to convert them.  Yes, of course, some changes to the existing gas fuel islands.

So, what do you think the answer is?

Jerry Baumchen

* Somewhat driven by a family member who is planning on buying an EV later this year.

[gowlerk 2,114]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I think the answer might be to just use existing gas stations & convert one bay to EV's only. 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But the time needed for even a quick charger means that multiple bays will be needed in locations that do this. However anyone who owns a parking spot at home will do almost all their charging overnight while they sleep. The only time a public charging spot will be needed is on extended trips. 

[BIGUN 1,231]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

So, what do you think the answer is?

EV charging stations are growing quickly.

https://pluginamerica.org/get-equipped/find-an-ev-charging-station/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ev charging stations&utm_campaign=US Charger Locations&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzfuNBhCGARIsAD1nu-8t4b9TJqDJSQKzn_1HQP1XnOuHjYlODF8jmDFVeOiMgVv3pWOsjQgaAiWgEALw_wcB 

Edited December 19, 2021 by BIGUN
Grammar

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But the time needed for even a quick charger means that multiple bays will be needed in locations that do this. However anyone who owns a parking spot at home will do almost all their charging overnight while they sleep. The only time a public charging spot will be needed is on extended trips. 

Hi Ken,

My bad; this is really what I was alluding to.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,772]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

From the article:  A big barrier to buying an electric vehicle . . . is figuring out where and how to charge it.

I've been thinking about this charging network problem. *  I think the answer might be to just use existing gas stations & convert one bay to EV's only.  The real estate is already there; only a larger electrical feed would be req'd to convert them.  Yes, of course, some changes to the existing gas fuel islands.

So, what do you think the answer is?

Well first off MOST charging is going to happen at home.  Most people (~70%) live in a single family home where they can plug in to charge.

Secondly at that gas station it would make a lot more sense to put in a few fast chargers near the convenience store, rather than replace a gas pump.  They park, plug in, buy some Twinkies, get a Big Gulp, come out and drive away after getting another 30-40 miles of range.

Fast chargers are expensive, though, so a better idea will likely be to skip gas stations altogether and go straight to parking spots in malls and near destinations.  A slow level 2 charger is cheap, easy to wire - and will give you 50 miles of range in the time it takes to have dinner or see a movie.

There's a second big advantage to slower chargers. If you have to park for an hour or so, you need something to do.  And thus the nearby restaurants/bars/movies/stores have a pretty strong interest in getting people to stop in their parking lot for an hour, because then they get customers they wouldn't otherwise get.  In addition, while EV's are coming down in cost very rapidly, they are not _quite_ at the cost of gas cars yet.  Which mean that EV drivers will tend to have more money available.  Which is the sort of people store owners want stopping by.

Thus a lot of such installations will be driven by businesses, not government.

[BIGUN 1,231]

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

If you have to park for an hour or so, you need something to do.  And thus the nearby restaurants/bars/movies/stores have a pretty strong interest in getting people to stop in their parking lot for an hour, because then they get customers they wouldn't otherwise get. 

There is an outdoor mall not far from me. It's about 50% restaurants. For exactly the reasons you mentioned. they have a bank of eight charging stations at the end of the parking lot. 

[JoeWeber 2,613]

35 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well first off MOST charging is going to happen at home.  Most people (~70%) live in a single family home where they can plug in to charge.

Secondly at that gas station it would make a lot more sense to put in a few fast chargers near the convenience store, rather than replace a gas pump.  They park, plug in, buy some Twinkies, get a Big Gulp, come out and drive away after getting another 30-40 miles of range.

Fast chargers are expensive, though, so a better idea will likely be to skip gas stations altogether and go straight to parking spots in malls and near destinations.  A slow level 2 charger is cheap, easy to wire - and will give you 50 miles of range in the time it takes to have dinner or see a movie.

There's a second big advantage to slower chargers. If you have to park for an hour or so, you need something to do.  And thus the nearby restaurants/bars/movies/stores have a pretty strong interest in getting people to stop in their parking lot for an hour, because then they get customers they wouldn't otherwise get.  In addition, while EV's are coming down in cost very rapidly, they are not _quite_ at the cost of gas cars yet.  Which mean that EV drivers will tend to have more money available.  Which is the sort of people store owners want stopping by.

Thus a lot of such installations will be driven by businesses, not government.

Well, we do  tell students it might be a two hour wait and most live within 40 miles. Hmmm...

[billvon 2,772]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Well, we do  tell students it might be a two hour wait and most live within 40 miles. Hmmm...

Joe's Skydiving School, Winery and EV Charging Lot.  There's a million dollar idea right there.  I get 1%.

[Bigfalls 111]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

There's a second big advantage to slower chargers. If you have to park for an hour or so, you need something to do. 

Bring back drive in movie theaters. See a movie, get a charge out of the movie and for your car.

[wolfriverjoe 1,481]

1 minute ago, Bigfalls said:

Bring back drive in movie theaters. See a movie, get a charge out of the movie and for your car.

That's truly awesome.

The service areas along the Ohio & Indiana toll roads are installing chargers (not sure what capacity). 
Stop in, use the facilities, run the dog around, get a bite to eat, chill for a bit.
Maybe not enough for a full charge, but it can easily take a couple hours. 

[JoeWeber 2,613]

58 minutes ago, billvon said:

Joe's Skydiving School, Winery and EV Charging Lot.  There's a million dollar idea right there.  I get 1%.

You're on. Of course I'll need you to wire the damn thing in so I don't blow my dumb ass up. I learned the other day that I have 19.85 acres of East Side vineyard land. How crazy is that? I bought it a decade ago and let the neighboring farmers use it for nada in the spirit of comity. One less thing, right?

I just remembered, I have wind tunnel level electricity wired to the driveway, you know, just in case. That's good, no?

Edited December 20, 2021 by JoeWeber
I ain't too smart

[BIGUN 1,231]

11 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Of course I'll need you to wire the damn thing in so I don't blow my dumb ass up.

How about you let them wire the damn thing in and you take a percentage of the top line revenue.

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

1 hour ago, Bigfalls said:

Bring back drive in movie theaters. See a movie, get a charge out of the movie and for your car.

Hi falls,

You're forgetting the charge a lot of guys out of the back seat of that car parked at the drive-in movie.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,772]

38 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You're on. Of course I'll need you to wire the damn thing in so I don't blow my dumb ass up. I learned the other day that I have 19.85 acres of East Side vineyard land. How crazy is that? I bought it a decade ago and let the neighboring farmers use it for nada in the spirit of comity. One less thing, right?

I just remembered, I have wind tunnel level electricity wired to the driveway, you know, just in case. That's good, no?

Heck that's fast charging territory!  You could get people to come in, slam a bottle and leave with another 100 miles of range! 

[JoeWeber 2,613]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

Heck that's fast charging territory!  You could get people to come in, slam a bottle and leave with another 100 miles of range! 

Sounds good to me. I just watched a youtube video explaining how to tell an earth from a positive. Seems straight forward. When do we start?

[kallend 1,853]

Our local shopping center (1.5 miles from home) has 10 charging stations in the parking lot.  The school where I used to work has a bunch.  Certainly there is no shortage in the Chicago area, they are springing up all over the place.

[SethInMI 160]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

Fast chargers are expensive, though, so a better idea will likely be to skip gas stations altogether and go straight to parking spots in malls and near destinations.  A slow level 2 charger is cheap, easy to wire - and will give you 50 miles of range in the time it takes to have dinner or see a movie.

For me, while travelling, chargers at hotels or on street parking or parking garages would be great. The most useful time to charge is overnight, the pattern of ending each travel day with a low battery and starting the next with a full battery makes so much sense. 

[BIGUN 1,231]

Tesla owner blows up Model S instead of footing $22,600 repair bill (msn.com)

Bet that's going to show up on the CarFax report. 

[Phil1111 1,099]

3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Tesla owner blows up Model S instead of footing $22,600 repair bill (msn.com)

Bet that's going to show up on the CarFax report. 

I'd guess that Finnish authorities are reevaluating his gun license.

[olofscience 464]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:22 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

I've been thinking about this charging network problem.

Thing is, to extend the liquid hydrocarbon fuel network, you need pipes, pumps, tanks, valves.

To extend the electric charging network, you basically need a wire. It's a lot easier.

 

(I know I know, wires are the analogs of pipes, voltage sources are pumps, battery packs/capacitors are tanks, and transistors/relays are valves...but in the electric case, you have zero moving parts)

Edited December 27, 2021 by olofscience

[billvon 2,772]

As an aside, I recall one of the frequent anti- posters here once claiming that we could never store solar energy overnight or build enough batteries to electrify most vehicles.  "You'd need dozens of gigafactories to build enough batteries for all that!  Will never happen.  It's a pipe dream." was their (paraphrased) claim.

As of today, we have plans to build the first dozen of those factories AND to start on the second dozen.  Which, of course, means not only more batteries, but a lot of jobs both at the battery plants themselves and for the industries that will use them.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/27/13-battery-gigafactories-coming-us-2025-ushering-new-era/?fbclid=IwAR0HMqh-kcq1vqq44HPE3FFktRJnzt-nQdpUTeGA8FoLpIBpKdu8dkfVvv8

[kallend 1,853]

Ford appears to be confident:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/01/ford-will-boost-electric-f-150-production-to-150000-trucks-per-year/

Ford will build 150,000 F-150 Lightnings per year due to demand

The news comes after last month's decision to triple Mustang Mach-E production.

[DougH 270]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:22 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

 

So, what do you think the answer is?

 

In rural areas they could stick them right on the utility poles. Make a curb cut and pave a little spot next to the pole.

[BIGUN 1,231]

1 hour ago, DougH said:

In rural areas they could stick them right on the utility poles. Make a curb cut and pave a little spot next to the pole.

Morning,

There's a couple of companies that specialize in helping rural areas. A few points they make regarding the community or community leaders being early adopters are:

1. Undisrupted and even increased commerce through local tourism and regular traveler stopovers, as EV owners from urban areas will naturally avoid small towns where they don’t have access to charging stations 
2. A stable source of additional revenue for the community 
3. A boost to individual businesses where charging stations are installed, as potential customers who drive EVs will choose to do business where they can also conveniently charge their vehicles
4. A stronger local economy

SOURCE: https://www.evconnect.com/blog/the-future-of-ev-charging-in-rural-towns-and-how-to-prepare

[billvon 2,772]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

1. Undisrupted and even increased commerce through local tourism and regular traveler stopovers, as EV owners from urban areas will naturally avoid small towns where they don’t have access to charging stations 

This is an important factor that will drive EV charging installations.

The most common type of charger in the US is the type 2 - a 240VAC charger that provides anywhere from 16 to 50 amps.  The smaller they are the easier they are to install.  The smaller they are, of course, the longer the charge takes as well.

Several shopping centers around here are realizing that putting in a bunch of the slower level 2 chargers - even making them free - not only draws people to the shopping center, but also draws them there for an hour or so (due to the slow charge rate) AND they tend to be the more affluent customers, since up until very recently EV's have been more expensive than ICE cars.  Which is the kind of people many shopping centers want to attract.