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piisfish

New Speed Skydiving record

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Utterly crazy.

I thought that we were in the incremental improvement stage of speed skydiving - that modern point sports get to where the techniques and parameters are fairly well known, and occasionally someone trains really hard, has a great day and bumps the record up a little.

Turns out I don't know shit. That's flat-out incredible!
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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JohnMitchell

***Have to admit this is not something I don't know much about. Would like to see photo in gear, special preparation of rig, his weight and height and how the hell do you go that fast?:S

Congrats

Same here. :)
Well now that was quite a jump in fastest...
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-speed-in-speed-skydiving-(male)

I would also like to know if that was with normal skydiving gear as required by the International Speed Skydiving Association or is this like Luigi who strapped on 75 pounds of lead ( disallowed in competition)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_skydiving


http://speed-skydiving.com/index.php/rankings


Jeanne #84 on list with the NR :P

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To get back on track...

Sure his exit speed was 601 KM/h

I thought speed skydiving was like WS performance.
Your average speed over the window is what is recorded not the peak speed at exit.
why have the window and not just a single altitude for recording?

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This is an amazing record. I can only equate it to maybe what Bob Beaman did in the long jump. Rather than quibble about metrics I think many of us would be curious as to know details about how this kind of average speed is achieved over a distance. What is their body position? Are they going straight down or do they fly at an angle? How do they slow down from that speed? What does the typical speed flyer wear? I think it would make a fascinating article actually. Can you image going twice as fast as an already fast head down?

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Summary for people too lazy to read: The measured acceleration is physically not possible. Measured speed is a result of air turbulence influencing the Protracks, and while it is still a record, it does not give a lot of information on the actual speed.

Detail

It's very impressive to see results like this. Anyways I don't think that the real speed relative to the ground was actually that high. I think this is acutally kind of a big problem in speed skydiving. Protracks are using airpressure to measure altitude and therefore speed and allow for manipulation by "turbulence". Just look at the graph.

At the beginning of the speed curve there is a speed of about 40km/h or 11,1 m/s. At the beginning of the measurement window at 2700m the speed is at about 400km/h or 111,1m/s. The time between these two points is about 20 seconds and that gives an average acceleration of about 5m/s². As soon as the measurement window starts, acceleration increases a lot (the speed curve gets steeper), which is very strange already. Given the entry speed of about 400km/h or 111,1m/s and the exit speed of about 620km/h or 172,2m/s (lowest reasonable value to see from the graph - real exit speed is not visible and possibly even higher) there is a speed difference of 61,1m/s over a time of 5,99s (average between the two Protrack values). This gives an acceleration of 10,2m/s² for the measurement window. As you might know freefall in vacuum happens at a acceleration of 9,81m/s², so without additional thrust the measured acceleration is impossible to achieve (even without any air resistance that is working against acceleration anyway).

So what I want to say is, that the record is very nice (and of course valid) as it happened in compliance with the ISSA rules, but the measured speed cannot be anywhere near the actual speed as it is physically impossible to achieve such an acceleration. Wether the influencing of the Protracks happened conscious or unconscious is not subject of my post.
Nice words are not always true - and true words are not always nice.

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jclalor

So how long does it take to transition to a survivable opening speed?



5500' is the bottom of the measured window. I always went to a track to bleed off speed... then get big about 3500' to slow down further... most of the time it worked pretty good except the time I thought I was at 4000 when my hard deck 2500 setting went off on my Protrack... I was still going too fast.. tried to get big.. then dumped... friggin canopy exploded open at 2000',Damn that rung my bell quite well.,,, blew off lines and took out a center cell... it looked really strange and would pulse a bit as it would inflate on one side or the other... then I decided a good canopy over my head was a good idea and non watching the shit show over my head. I cleared the blown lines away from me and chopped and pulled silver.. not a good jump at all....and I was sore for a while. Protrack said I was doing over 150 when deployment occurred.. something under 10 sec that seemed like an eternity at the time.

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So Maggyrider,

This is a genuine question. I know diddly squat about speed skydiving. If what you say is true, does it not make a mockery of the whole speed skydiving discipline? And, if so, is there an accurate (perhaps ground based) option especially for large competitions?

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evh

His measured speed increases from 450 km/h to 600 km/h in just 2.5 seconds...
Obviously this measurement is complete nonsense.



Don't they have the competitors wear two Pro-Track's, one on each hip? Seems like I read that if both devices didn't coincide, that they disregarded the measurements. So you wouldn't have to fool just one device, which might be easy enough with a back loop maneuver or something, you would have to fool both of them, simultaneously, and with the same recordings. Seems like that would make it very difficult to have erroneous results. Yet, somehow this speed run seems to have defied the laws of physics...

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There's this vid of one of his runs where he gets 589.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJN53p1NvNA

I calculated accelerations by sections and his max acceleration is around 8m/s2 for 3 seconds when at around 500km/h, which though seems strange as the acceleration should slow down the higher the speed, it is still below G.

I think with that graph being average speed, is it possible that the average speed increases faster than the speed itself? I mean, if you accelerate from 400 to 500, the moment you hit 500 your avg will be lets say 450. If you keep doing 500 or more your average speed could very quickly shoot up till it gets close to your actual real-time speed. Makes sense? Any maths guy fancy putting that in numbers?

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I would love to hear from the actual competitor or perhaps the officials who approved and sanctioned this. Some of you seem quite convinced that this data is erroneous and/or possibly fraudulent. Is this just a case of "Oh well, we have to go by the ProTracks even if it defies logic because them's the rules". Or, is it possible this guy did something remarkable?

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ixlr82

So Maggyrider,

This is a genuine question. I know diddly squat about speed skydiving. If what you say is true, does it not make a mockery of the whole speed skydiving discipline? And, if so, is there an accurate (perhaps ground based) option especially for large competitions?



Basically yes... I think that speed skydiving given the current measurement methods is complete nonsense. I mean, just look at the deployment speeds of some curves?! Deploying at over 250km/h - that's a pull in headdown. I once had a deployment happen at the transition from sit to track and that was already painfull as f*ck. And now I should believe in curves telling me that people pull at over 250km/h on a regular base?

Change the measurement. Make it ground based, make it based on an inertial navigation system, whatever... But get away from something that obviously cannot be right. It makes a joke of the whole discipline to accept speeds as records that are physically impossible.
Nice words are not always true - and true words are not always nice.

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