murps2000 86 #1576 October 28, 2021 26 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Yes, and not just at the pump, the grocery store and housing market as well. Printing two trillion dollars and dumping it into an already growing economy, predictably, resulted in the higher prices we are enduring now. ... That’s why you think gas prices are up? I’m surprised you didn’t mention the cancellation of Keystone XL. That would be way easier to try to back up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,055 #1577 October 28, 2021 26 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Yes, and not just at the pump, the grocery store and housing market as well. Printing two trillion dollars and dumping it into an already growing economy, predictably, resulted in the higher prices we are enduring now. Cancelling the Keystone project would at most affect the price by about ten cents/gallon - If that. The cold snap in Jan/Feb of this year was so hard that it shut a lot of refineries in the south down. It is strictly a supply & demand issue. But, you got an MBA, so you knew this. Nor, is he printing two trillion dollars. There's a lot of reasons not to like Joe, but make them factual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1578 October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: Cancelling the Keystone project would at most affect the price by about ten cents/gallon - If that. The cold snap in Jan/Feb of this year was so hard that it shut a lot of refineries in the south down. It is strictly a supply & demand issue. But, you got an MBA, so you knew this. Nor, is he printing two trillion dollars. There's a lot of reasons not to like Joe, but make them factual. Where did the two trillion dollars for the American Rescue Plan come from? Quantitative easing anyone? Why is the cost of housing increasing? Food? Furniture? You are correct, it IS a supply and demand issue. The over-supply of cash chasing too few goods have resulted in inflation and lower real wages for Americans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1579 October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: It is strictly a supply & demand issue. Exactly. On top of the supply issues, Americans are driving at rates 50% more than pre-pandemic levels. Shockingly with lower supply and higher demand, prices went up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1580 October 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Why is the cost of housing increasing? Food? Furniture? You are correct, it IS a supply and demand issue. The over-supply of cash chasing too few goods have resulted in inflation and lower real wages for Americans I take it you have not heard of the logistics issue and supply issues.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1581 October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, SkyDekker said: I take it you have not heard of the logistics issue and supply issues.... Yep, when you pay folks to stay at home and not to work it exasperates logistical challenges Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,055 #1582 October 28, 2021 https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/americas-inflation-debate-is-fundamentally-confused.html 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1583 October 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Exactly. On top of the supply issues, Americans are driving at rates 50% more than pre-pandemic levels. Shockingly with lower supply and higher demand, prices went up. Where do you think the extra $$$ driving that increase came from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1584 October 28, 2021 Just now, brenthutch said: Where do you think the extra $$$ driving that increase came from? can't be from Biden, cause higher up you claimed it was for people to stay home.... 6 minutes ago, brenthutch said: when you pay folks to stay at home Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1585 October 28, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: can't be from Biden, cause higher up you claimed it was for people to stay home.... Let me rephrase. “When you pay people for not working” Where do you think all of that extra discretionary $$$ came from to pay for all of that additional driving? Edited October 28, 2021 by brenthutch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1586 October 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, brenthutch said: “When you pay people for not working” Where do you think all of that extra discretionary $$$ If you replace income people would have otherwise derived from working, you have not increased discretionary income. So in your above question that money would have gone to the same costs they had before.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1587 October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: If you replace income people would have otherwise derived from working, you have not increased discretionary income. So in your above question that money would have gone to the same costs they had before.. Two factors are at play. One is paying workers not to work, creating a labor shortage, the other is dumping thousands of dollars into the account of those who never lost a paycheck creating a surge in demand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1588 October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: One is paying workers not to work, creating a labor shortage, Wasn't the stimulus $1,200? How long can you pay rent and live for that amount of money? 6 minutes ago, brenthutch said: the other is dumping thousands of dollars into the account of those who never lost a paycheck creating a surge in demand. But you advocate for tax cuts for rich people, which effectively dumped millions of dollars into accounts of people who already had millions.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1589 October 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: But you advocate for tax cuts for rich people, which effectively dumped millions of dollars into accounts of people who already had millions.... If that were the driver of inflation we would have seen it years ago, but no, we see it now, after the implementation of Biden’s policies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1590 October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: If that were the driver of inflation we would have seen it years ago, but no, we see it now, after the implementation of Biden’s policies Which goes to show that "dumping money into accounts who didn't need it" isn't the driver. And the people who did need it didn't derive additional discretionary income from it. In other words: your talking points don't make sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,302 #1591 October 28, 2021 33 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: If you replace income people would have otherwise derived from working, you have not increased discretionary income. So in your above question that money would have gone to the same costs they had before.. I don't think it's that simple. I know for a fact that a lot of people looked at that 1200 bucks and their surplus unemployment payments like lottery winnings and just blew it on pointless crap like skydiving. Our staff received a lot of $50 and $100 tips from people on the dole who weren't burdened with a rent payment owing to the eviction ban. Nor were they particularly burdened with what happens when the music stops. I am not saying that in all situations injecting capital into the system will fail to achieve positive results. I am saying that after watching this year I'm of the mind that just handing out support in the form of chunks of cash and hoping for responsibility may not be the best solution. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #1592 October 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: I don't think it's that simple You don't say. I am shocked that macro economics cannot be contained within 140 characters. Next you'll tell me you can't just simply say that Biden printing money caused gas prices to go up. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1593 October 28, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: You don't say. I am shocked that macro economics cannot be contained within 140 characters. Next you'll tell me you can't just simply say that Biden printing money caused gas prices to go up. You are correct, here is another The left’s war on fossil fuels has let to a reduction in investment. Less investment = less production = less supply = higher prices Edited October 28, 2021 by brenthutch 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,302 #1594 October 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: You don't say. I am shocked that macro economics cannot be contained within 140 characters. Next you'll tell me you can't just simply say that Biden printing money caused gas prices to go up. You're right, I didn't say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #1595 October 28, 2021 10 hours ago, brenthutch said: The left’s war on fossil fuels has let to a reduction in investment. Less investment = less production = less supply = higher prices I think that’s kind of the point. Just sayin’ Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 911 #1596 October 28, 2021 10 hours ago, brenthutch said: You are correct, here is another The left’s war on fossil fuels has let to a reduction in investment. Less investment = less production = less supply = higher prices Which drives conservation and EV purchase and usage. It sounds like the left is winning. Perhaps I'll have to move from the right to the left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 422 #1597 October 28, 2021 Just now, Phil1111 said: Which drives conservation and EV purchase and usage. It sounds like the left is winning. Perhaps I'll have to move from the right to the left. When supply chain issues caused a shortage of fuel at petrol stations in the UK, there was a massive boost in enquiries about electric cars. The best-selling model in the UK as of June 2021 is the Tesla Model 3, so their lead will probably only increase... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 384 #1598 October 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: I think that’s kind of the point. Just sayin’ Wendy P. And that was my point (one of them anyway). Biden says he is going to end fossil fuels, that scares away investment which results in less supply, driving up prices. Voters don’t like high prices and the Dems will learn that harsh lesson in the mid-terms, if not sooner. Edited October 28, 2021 by brenthutch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #1599 October 28, 2021 Many younger voters understand that they will have to live in this world, and think that reducing reliance on fossil fuels will help that. Yes, those are the ones who can afford to — just like it’s the people who can afford health care who catch health problems early. 100 years ago, there were still people using horses for their transportation needs in the US (not including deliberate religious decisions like Amish). 50 years ago that was probably true in other parts of the world. Now, in the US, the infrastructure just won’t support horses any more. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #1600 October 28, 2021 12 hours ago, brenthutch said: You are correct, here is another The left’s war on fossil fuels has let to a reduction in investment. Less investment = less production = less supply = higher prices Higher prices = tight oil becomes profitable = American wells can produce at a profit again = more jobs = more production = lower prices. Which of those do you abhor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites