Main-Reserve Entanglement/Unintentional Water Landing: Lessons Learned

[pkasdorf 0]

All I can say is...

WOW!
CONGRATULATIONS!

VERY, VERY WELL WRITTEN REPORT!

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[jakee 1,254]

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One thing that causes excessively hard to pull (yes, peel and pullWink) cutaway pillows AND reserve ripcords is constantly checking the velcro. If every time you inspect your rig you run your fingers over the handle velcro to make sure it's seated you making it harder and harder to pull apart.

Way back when I was first taught to check my gear I was told at the beginning of each jumping day to peel and then reseat the cutaway and reserve handles to 'unset' the velcro.

Since then I've heard some stories by riggers about handles that haven't been peeled from one repack to the next, one guy had a rig he could pick up by the reserve handle and whirl round his head!!

NWFlyer: Do you regularly peel your handles on the ground?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NWFlyer 2]

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NWFlyer: Do you regularly peel your handles on the ground?

No.

[jakee 1,254]

Do you think it could have made a difference here, and might you add it to your start of the day routine?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NWFlyer 2]

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Do you think it could have made a difference here, and might you add it to your start of the day routine?

It's possible. I'm going to talk with the master rigger who has my gear and get his opinion once he's had a chance to look at everything.

[Icon134 0]

I'm really glad to hear you came out of this ok...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[phoenixlpr 0]

I don't peel anything.

I got my reserve handle out of velcro quite often.

I had some real emergencies and using them was not an issue.

[Trae 1]

Impressive.
As quick as the incident was changing you changed with it and dealt with what sounds like a wide range of threats.
Your crash site could hardly have been better from the sound.

From your story your reserve only really inflated after you managed to cut one riser away by pulling the cable out at the riser with your fingers. Thankfully this potentially hazardous method worked for you. Perhaps not to be recommended but well improvised on your behalf on the day.

Quite amazing really .

[bmcd308 0]

>>Just today on a high pull I intentionally pulled one toggle down to the stowed point to see what it was like.<<

I do not think that is a good test. I have unstowed one brake and let it spin, and my perception was that the spin was not NEARLY as fast as it was when the canopy had an opening that unstowed a toggle. Even after several revolutions I did not feel like I was spun out as far as I was when it happened on an actual jump. I do not know why this happened, but I am pretty sure I am correct.

Maybe on my opening the canopy opened in somewhat of a dive and was able to keep that attitude more easily than it could get into that attitude.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[NWFlyer 2]

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From your story your reserve only really inflated after you managed to cut one riser away by pulling the cable out at the riser with your fingers. Thankfully this potentially hazardous method worked for you. Perhaps not to be recommended but well improvised on your behalf on the day.

Yes, I'm definitely not recommending it as an alternative to the good, old fashioned proper cutaway.

[DontPanic 0]

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3) Were the toggles, upon finding your main?

Neither was in the toggle keeper, as stated above the left one was not through the cat's eye, the right one was. Bear in mind I didn't see the main until after it had been plucked from the ocean, carried back to the landing area, shoved in a garbage bag, and carried to where I gave its first rinse. I have no idea what, if anything, was touched.

Sorry, I didn't even think to check the toggle positions before we bagged up your water-logged main.

I'm glad everything came out OK. I was watching the tail end of this malfunction from above. It was kind of freaky seeing the reserve out with the main streamering behind you.

After you get all your equipment checked out, let us know how your equipment faired after being immersed in salt-water. I'm hoping you got it cleaned up fast enough, but I'm curious to know.

[Bolas 5]

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Did you try a 2 hand pull on the cutaway pad, before pulling on the cables?
Some people are taught 2 handed EPs.

I don't believe I did. I was taught two-handed, but made a decision early on to do a one-hand on each handle procedure. I may change that now.

Thanks for great writeup and not getting hurt. Way to keep your head and "think outside of the box".
Why did you switch to one hand on each? For the hard cutaway or incomplete cutaway reasons, I use the 2 hand approach. Except for wingsuiting I use an RSL, so no matter how fast I am one handed or two handed, the RSL will beat me.

The important thing to remember in the two hand approach is make sure you're looking at silver when you cutaway.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Sorry, I didn't even think to check the toggle positions before we bagged up your water-logged main.

No worries, Mitch, thanks for all your help and for the attempted freebag rescue effort. I will definitely update on the gear after it gets a full inspection. It's looking pretty ugly... Altimaster says the altimeter's probably toast (maybe this is the excuse I need to order an Altitrack!), it's likely the Vigil is fried as well, though we'll have to see. Crossing my fingers that the main and reserve pass their strength tests.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Why did you switch to one hand on each? For the hard cutaway or incomplete cutaway reasons, I use the 2 hand approach. Except for wingsuiting I use an RSL, so no matter how fast I am one handed or two handed, the RSL will beat me.

The important thing to remember in the two hand approach is make sure you're looking at silver when you cutaway.

I liked the idea that if I had it in my hand, the reserve handle couldn't "get away from me" after cutaway.

I'm definitely rethinking that now.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Good gravy, Krisanne.

First and foremost: Thank God you're ok.

Second, I had a similar experience (not the whole reserve-ride-water landing, just the first part!). I had a toggle come unstowed on deploy. Honestly I don't recall if I failed to pack it correctly or how it happened.

Anyhoo, it was bad to worse kind of deal...as the guy that was jumping after me was fairly close behind me on exit, and with a RIGHT brake line released, I was spiraling left, and when I grabbed the right riser to compensate to slow the spin, it put me about to cross paths with the second jumper. -Not to worry, I didn't have a moment to contemplate that as I now had the left side of my canopy in half-breaks (toggle still stowed) and the right rear riser pulled down tight (prolly too much) resulting in my canopy collapsing. I dropped straight down.

As it reinflated, I pulled both toggles ONCE and released, and a happy canopy remained above my head.

My mistake? It was a happy canopy. But it wasn't there until about 1700 feet. I make my decision by 1800. That's my hard deck. 1800 feet. I failed to check my altimeter through the whole steer-avoid-collapse-fix event.

I had altitude fortunately. I learned a lesson. I never posted about it, but I should have.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[mfrese 0]

Krisanne:

You probably don't remember me, we met at Hollister on your road trip with Dave and ???...
Anyway, great job and great report. That was a lot more exciting than my first beach jump.
I would add two things to the comments made here so far (all of which are excellent):

1) I make it a habit to set my brakes immediately after landing, a little tip I got from Billy Weber's "Pack Like A Pro" video. This pretty much gurantees you won't ever forget to do it when you start packing. (But with the brake setting on a Spectre, you probably would have noticed the discrepancy between the left and right brakes when packing, so that likely wasn't the problem.)

2) At your home DZ, do they have a hanging harness setup? If so, I highly recommend the "Two Blokes" test for your container system: while in the harness, have two large friends hang on to your harness while you're cutting away. It gives you a much better ideas what the pull forces are like when in a 2 to 3G spinning turn. This will help you determine how comfortable you'll be with either a one or two-handed pull next time.

Anyway, great job, thanks for not adding to the carnage this weekend, I don't think I could have handled another person I know going in.

Blue ones,

Mike

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[jlmiracle 7]

First off Congrats on surviving. Glad you are okay.

I was just wondering if you did a controlability check on your main canopy?

You said you were trying to diagnose the problem, but did you do the controlabiltiy check?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[NWFlyer 2]

Of course I remember you, Mike.
I always set the brakes at landing; I suspect that was part of my problem as I was distracted by the jumper I'd just finished jumping with coming up to talk about the jump. I will continue to field stow the brakes, but will build in an extra check point as I lay the rig down to pack it.

Will look into doing actual hanging harness on my own gear... the hanging harness I've been in has velcro that's so ratty you could look at it funny and the cutaway handle would come out.

[redwings 0]

Wow, I'm glad you're OK. Better your equipment than you, right? After all, you always can buy new gear.
That said, thanks for sharing your story. It helps a novice like me learn.
Peel and pull, with two hands.
Since I've just started to learn how to pack, I'll definitely keep those lessons in mind.

Why don't you just go to the police station in a red clown suit and let everybody know what we're doing here?

I have a phobia for moobs. Thanks, youknowwhoyouare.

[NWFlyer 2]

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You said you were trying to diagnose the problem, but did you do the controlabiltiy check?

I did not, at any point, have/take the opportunity to grab my toggles and attempt to control the canopy that way. I did grab at the rear risers to try to slow the canopy down so that I could get to the toggles, but the turn was fast enough and I'd bled off enough altitude quickly enough that I didn't end up with enough time to get to the actual "attempt to release the toggles" step before I blew through my decision altitude. I burned through the approximately 700 feet singificantly faster than I would have expected on a Spectre 230.

[wmw999 2,121]

It used to be said back in the dark ages that women skydivers' own special fuck-up was to keep pulling at a hard pull until they went in. Because most women knew they were weaker than most men, and figured that just a little more would do it.

Most women are weaker than most men, and there isn't always time for several pulls. You did exactly the right thing by addressing each issue realtime. But folks -- if you haven't practiced your cutaways, then do so. Get used to the feeling, and if you're the least bit uncomfortable with doing it right hte first time when you're panicked, then go to a two-hand cutaway. A handle is cheap.

And yes, I do cutaway with two hands, and I generally pull the reserve with two hands. I learned that lesson about women's own special malfunction. Handles just aren't that expensive.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[brierebecca 0]

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I was taught two-handed, but made a decision early on to do a one-hand on each handle procedure. I may change that now.

I did just the opposite. I was taught two-handed, but after I realized how hard it was to pull my cutaway handle (I pulled both handles when it was time for a repack), I switched to a two-handed pull. I have another friend who switched from one-handed to two hands during a cutaway because of a hard pull.

I also try to remember to peel before I punch when I practice my emergency procedures (right before exit on every jump).

Because of this thread, I'm going to try to pull my handles every time I need a repack.

Thanks for your experiences.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[mfrese 0]

You must remember all the old bald guys, huh? (How's that for a vicious backhand slap at Monkeyboy?)

Yeah, I highly recommend doing actual hanging harness cutaways, highly loaded with your own rig. It's really the only way you can get any idea what the actual pull forces are like. It's what made me realize that my old Talon rig I ordered with the soft cutaway housings might work a lot better with hard housings.

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[monkycndo 0]

*sneaks up behind the old, fat, bald guy and slaps him on his head*

Love you too Mike.

boy

[parachutist 1]

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Did you try a 2 hand pull on the cutaway pad, before pulling on the cables?
Some people are taught 2 handed EPs.

I don't believe I did. I was taught two-handed, but made a decision early on to do a one-hand on each handle procedure. I may change that now.

You're a chick. You have equal rights to males in this country, but laws of physics do not care about such equality. You are female and you need to realize that your instructor taught you to use 2 hands for a reason.

I'm male and pretty strong and still I like to stack the odds in my favor by using 2 hands on each handle. It works darn well.

'I may change that now' So you're actually considering the possibility of still using the method that completely failed you once already?

Chris