Impeach the MotherF%@KER!

[yobnoc 142]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Where did I say "Hunter"?

Why would you think Obama gave a fuck about a prosecutor in Ukraine enough make a phone call, let alone hold back a billion dollars of loan security?

 

What possible motive would Obama have?

What was his stake in it?

 

Imagine Canada closing its borders until we fired the attorney general.

 

The motive is that Ukraine's security directly affects the security of the EU, and if left to the devices of pro-Putin corrupt influences (re: Viktor Shokin), our national security interest and that of our allies (Ukraine, the EU, and even our Middle East partners) becomes jeopardized by Russian aggression.  And if Canada, in coordination with Mexico and the EU closed their borders to us due to our AG being corrupt as fuck (btw: he is [and he's a member of Opus Dei, which is absolutely horrifying as well]), then I think that would say much more about our AG than it does the entities banding together to influence that decision to fire him. 

I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain this.  I guess I just have an unshakeable hope that trumpers can be rehabilitated.

[billvon 2,400]

Fun new fact from today - 

William Taylor testified that Barr was planning to coordinate with the Ukraine on dismissing the interference allegations.  Actual wording:

"We also discussed the possibility that the Ukrainian Prosecutor General, rather than President Zelensky, would make a statement about investigations, potentially in coordination with Attorney General Barr's probe into the investigation of interference in the 2016 elections."

To reiterate, two senior U.S. officials seriously discussed a plan in which the attorney general of the United States would publicly coordinate with a foreign government to help clear Trump of any implication that a foreign power helped him win an election.  By withholding US aid.

Can't wait for the "well, I see no problem with that!" from the same people who want Biden's son arrested for doing business in the Ukraine.

[jakee 1,254]

7 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I don't think it undermines the national interests.

The people who are employed to be experts in the region do. They really, really do. Why do you disagree?

 

And even if it didn't, even if the political game playing for personal gain had a neutral effect on the country, does that make it ok to abuse the power of office for personal gain?

 

Quote

Would you be screaming this loud if Obama did the same thing?

He didn't. If Obama was like Trump I genuinely believe he'd never have even been elected. It's like when Ivanka was using G7 meetings for personal self promotion and said no-one would have a problem if Hillary had let Chelsea do it - that's precisely the point. Hillary would never have let Chelsea do it. No-one but the Trumps have ever done it.

 

Quote

I know the republicans would, but would you ?

Would any of the usual suspects that hate trump?

Would you? I think it's highly ironic that you're claiming bias while demonstrating your own. You'd be apoplectic if you thought Obama had done anything close to this, but because it's Trump you don't give a shit.

[jakee 1,254]

7 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Where did I say "Hunter"?

Why would you think Obama gave a fuck about a prosecutor in Ukraine enough make a phone call, let alone hold back a billion dollars of loan security?

 

What possible motive would Obama have?

What did Obama ever do to make you think he wasn't a real statesman, and that he didn't care about the responsibilities of the Presidency? That's a serious question. Why do you think Obama didn't give a fuck about international relations?

 

Rampant corruption is one of the biggest destabilising influences in any country, particularly one that's already involved in a border war. Viktor Shokin was involved in, protected and enabled rampant corruption throughout the country. What's the point of giving a billion dollars if you think there's a good chance that the recipient's chief law enforcer is going to help people steal it? 

 

Why do you think that's not a motive for Obama? Again, what did he ever actually do that makes you think he didn't care? 

 

Quote

What was his stake in it?

What makes you think he was like Donald Trump? Has Trump been so successful in poisoning the national discourse that you now assume no politician has ever done anything that wasn't motivated by self interest? We can point to all of Trump's blatant abuses of office for self enrichment. That's not in question. Why do you think Obama would only ever have done anything in Ukraine for his own personal interest? Be specific.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

What did Obama ever do to make you think he wasn't a real statesman, and that he didn't care about the responsibilities of the Presidency? That's a serious question. Why do you think Obama didn't give a fuck about international relations?...

...What makes you think he was like Donald Trump? Has Trump been so successful in poisoning the national discourse that you now assume no politician has ever done anything that wasn't motivated by self interest? We can point to all of Trump's blatant abuses of office for self enrichment. That's not in question. Why do you think Obama would only ever have done anything in Ukraine for his own personal interest? Be specific.

How about "name one incident where Obama put his personal interests ahead of the country's?"

[turtlespeed 212]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

The people who are employed to be experts in the region do. They really, really do. Why do you disagree?

 

And even if it didn't, even if the political game playing for personal gain had a neutral effect on the country, does that make it ok to abuse the power of office for personal gain?

 

He didn't. If Obama was like Trump I genuinely believe he'd never have even been elected. It's like when Ivanka was using G7 meetings for personal self promotion and said no-one would have a problem if Hillary had let Chelsea do it - that's precisely the point. Hillary would never have let Chelsea do it. No-one but the Trumps have ever done it.

 

Would you? I think it's highly ironic that you're claiming bias while demonstrating your own. You'd be apoplectic if you thought Obama had done anything close to this, but because it's Trump you don't give a shit.

""""And even if it didn't, even if the political game playing for personal gain had a neutral effect on the country, does that make it ok to abuse the power of office for personal gain?""""

Specifically to this - NO, I do not.

I think its more ironic that you think I'm defending anyone - 

I am asking questions to point out the hypocrisy I see rampant everywhere.

How MUCH effort would be put into impeachment by the Democrats, or the left leaning populace IF it were Obama instead of Trump?

[DJL 232]

16 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

You do realize that the VP Biden was on video bragging how he forced an investigation to be stopped by forcing the firing of the official - of another country - and witholding funds until that happened?

That is corruption that needs to be investigated.  No more, and no less, than Trump's involvement.

See video below - The prosecutor was investigating some people - and then - suddenly he wasn't.  I don't think that is Making up anything.

Do you now understand that what you've said above is incorrect?

[kallend 1,623]

12 hours ago, Skwrl said:

Nobody is above the law.  We don't have kings; we have a president that serves pursuant to a Constitution and serves subject to its limitations.

 

Seems to me that George VI and Elizabeth II have behaved rather better for their nation than, for example, Nixon or Trump have done for the USA.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

How about "name one incident where Obama put his personal interests ahead of the country's?"

Pushing Obama Care through.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, DJL said:

Do you now understand that what you've said above is incorrect?

It is not.

[DJL 232]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It is not.

Provide your source.

Edit: You can start here: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/oct/11/donald-trump/trump-ad-misleads-about-biden-ukraine-and-prosecut/

Edited October 24, 2019 by DJL

[turtlespeed 212]

1 minute ago, DJL said:

Provide your source.

Watch the video.

[DJL 232]

7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Watch the video.

You want me to watch an hour long video?  I'm aware of Biden saying that he helped to force the prosecutor out.  Is there something else or specific in the video you want me to see?

[jakee 1,254]

12 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

""""And even if it didn't, even if the political game playing for personal gain had a neutral effect on the country, does that make it ok to abuse the power of office for personal gain?""""

Specifically to this - NO, I do not.

I think its more ironic that you think I'm defending anyone - 

So why are you claiming Trump wasn’t acting against the national interest? Why are you claiming Trump hasn’t done anything Obama wouldn’t have done? 

 

You absolutely are defending the guy.

 

“I am asking questions to point out the hypocrisy I see rampant everywhere.”

 

You're not seeing the hypocrisy, you’re assuming hypocrisy. And ironically, you’re assuming that because of your own hypocrisy.

“How MUCH effort would be put into impeachment by the Democrats, or the left leaning populace IF it were Obama instead of Trump?”

 

Who knows? What we do know is that we didn’t have to find out, because Obama didn’t do it. Trump is doing it. Why are you incapable of recognising that?

[jakee 1,254]

15 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Pushing Obama Care through.

How did Obamacare personally benefit Obama in a way remotely comparable to Trump attempting to extort party political favours from a foreign government?

[jakee 1,254]

14 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Watch the video.

Lol. Why are you being such a massive hypocrite?

[turtlespeed 212]

9 minutes ago, jakee said:

Lol. Why are you being such a massive hypocrite?

Probably for a lot of the same reasons you are.

EXCEPT - I'm not supporting Trump - I am not defending Trump.

Regardless of what you say.

[Skwrl 56]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

How did Obamacare personally benefit Obama in a way remotely comparable to Trump attempting to extort party political favours from a foreign government?

It has the name "Obama" in it!  Duh!

Except, no, wait...  its real name is the Affordable Care Act and only cared "ObamaCare" informally.   That's how sneaky that Obama was.

Checkmate, Libtards!

Edited October 24, 2019 by Skwrl

[DJL 232]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Watch the video.

I'm not sure you saw my response above:  You want me to watch an hour long video?  I'm aware of Biden saying that he helped to force the prosecutor out.  Is there something else or specific in the video you want me to see?

[yobnoc 142]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

It is not.

[kallend 1,623]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Probably for a lot of the same reasons you are.

EXCEPT - I'm not supporting Trump - I am not defending Trump.

Regardless of what you say.

Ha ha ha.

Keep telling yourself that and you may even get to believe it yourself.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Ha ha ha.

Keep telling yourself that and you may even get to believe it yourself.

As I was was just explaining in another thread - 

Just because you don't absolutely loathe a candidate or sitting president, doesn't mean that you support them.

I believe it was Skydekker that said: How old are you?  I assume you are over 12, and yet, you are just figuring out that the world isn't black and white.(Paraphrased)

 

Except, in light of your statement above - you don't really seem to be understanding that premise.

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

As I was was just explaining in another thread - 

Just because you don't absolutely loathe a candidate or sitting president, doesn't mean that you support them.

I believe it was Skydekker that said: How old are you?  I assume you are over 12, and yet, you are just figuring out that the world isn't black and white.(Paraphrased)

 

Except, in light of your statement above - you don't really seem to be understanding that premise.

I've never set eyes on you, but whenever I read comments like that from you I get the image in my mind not of a turtle, but  of a cross between Mr. Toad and Billy Bunter.

https://www.google.com/search?q=billy+bunter&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&sxsrf=ACYBGNQ2fJev4MIBygNWAT6NQSYHowjgBw:1571946102221&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9o53I07XlAhUSnawKHdZdDTcQ_AUIEigB&biw=1258&bih=607

https://www.google.com/search?q=toad+of+toad+hall&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&sxsrf=ACYBGNQ3yxx2xngKBh5uE4nYIYS7bVtNmw:1571946208077&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirl9r607XlAhURUa0KHWVwC90Q_AUIEigB&biw=1258&bih=607

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

I've never set eyes on you, but whenever I read comments like that from you I get the image in my mind not of a turtle, but  of a cross between Mr. Toad and Billy Bunter.

https://www.google.com/search?q=billy+bunter&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&sxsrf=ACYBGNQ2fJev4MIBygNWAT6NQSYHowjgBw:1571946102221&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9o53I07XlAhUSnawKHdZdDTcQ_AUIEigB&biw=1258&bih=607

https://www.google.com/search?q=toad+of+toad+hall&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&sxsrf=ACYBGNQ3yxx2xngKBh5uE4nYIYS7bVtNmw:1571946208077&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirl9r607XlAhURUa0KHWVwC90Q_AUIEigB&biw=1258&bih=607

I'm just paraphrasing Skydekker - I'd hate to see what you imagine of him.

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Probably for a lot of the same reasons you are.

Why am I being a hypocrite?

Quote

EXCEPT - I'm not supporting Trump - I am not defending Trump.

Regardless of what you say.

You're claiming Biden manipulated Ukraine for personal gain in the same way (or worse) than Trump. That's a lie that is significantly to Trump's benefit.

 

You're claiming Obama was in on it for reasons that had nothing to do with national interest. That's a lie that is significantly to Trump's benefit.

 

You're claiming Obama manipulated the office of the President for personal gain in the same ways that Trump is doing. That's a lie that is significantly to Trump's benefit - and you know it's a lie because you can't even provide the slightest detail about how you think he did it. You just assume, because you can't bear to think that Trump could possibly be any worse than a Democrat. Which is, I think you get the point.

 

If you don't think that counts as defending Trump, you're so far down the Republican rabbit hole you can't even remember what non-biased daylight looks like. Regardless of what you say.