What happens when climate change deniers study the science

[RonD1120 58]

It is something to keep your mind busy until the big event. We all have to have something.

Spheres of consciousness are not required to overlap. When they do we have the opportunity to pursue a path in a complementary way. When they do not it simply does not matter.

I seek a spiritual journey with eternal benefits. I invite others to join along. Whether they do or not is of no consequence to me. It is like watching a cruise ship sail out of port.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,413]

>I believe that the earth maintains its homeostasis

Normally it does.

So does your body. But if you fill it with alcohol and drugs, often it can't maintain that homeostasis any more, and you get sick (and can die.) That's not the fault of your body - that's the fault of filling it with alcohol.

Likewise, the earth does a reasonable job of maintaining homeostasis. But if you pump as much carbon dioxide and methane into the air that you can, it can't maintain that homeostasis any more, and it gets hotter. That's not the fault of the planet - that's our fault for filling the air with as much CO2 as we can.

The solution is simple. Stop drinking (or in the case of the planet, stop pumping as much CO2 into it as we can.) If it's an addiction, there are ways to break it, even if it's painful and hard. We will all be better off after kicking the habit.

>and the Serenity Prayer begins with "God grant me the serenity to accept the
>things I cannot change."

. . . and the courage to change the things I can.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

RonD1120

I believe that the earth maintains its homeostasis with or without taxation to fund an unmanageable endeavor. Six or seven billion people working together would certainly produce a result. The question is how are you going to organize that company? Would the intended result survive the law of unintended consequences?

Oh, and the Serenity Prayer begins with "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change."

Well, those six or seven billion are currently doing their absolute best (unintended) to destroy the earth.

For many, it's called "survival." Take Haiti for example. The Haitian half of the island has been practically deforested. The population needed the wood for cooking. Now that the foliage has been removed, any significant rainfall (like hurricanes) produces devastating mudslides.

Kenya is facing similar deforestation issues.

And you're right. The first line of the SP is acceptance. But the second is courage. The third is the "wisdom to know the difference" (Between what I can and cannot change).
That one is the hard part.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[RonD1120 58]

Good explanation.

The problem is getting people, 6-7B of them, to admit the problem and take the first step. That is, they have to admit they are powerless and turn it over to God as they understand Him.

To some, many, that god is government and taxation or power and control.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

wolfriverjoe

And you're right. The first line of the SP is acceptance. But the second is courage. The third is the "wisdom to know the difference" (Between what I can and cannot change).
That one is the hard part.

Amen to that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,413]

>The problem is getting people, 6-7B of them, to admit the problem and take the
>first step. That is, they have to admit they are powerless and turn it over to God as
>they understand Him.

I think you've got it backwards. You admit the problem, then work to fix it.

Maybe it's a liberal thing. Liberals tend to look at a problem and try to figure out what they can do to fix it. Conservatives often prefer to blame others and become victims.

[RonD1120 58]

I have difficulty believing that conservatives in general blame others and become victims. I believe conservatives in general want to live their lives without governmental power and control as much as is possible.

I see liberals as living in a world of problems and negativity that require power and control which can only be funded by taking money and control from conservatives.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,635]

RonD1120

I believe that the earth maintains its homeostasis with or without taxation to fund an unmanageable endeavor.

Meanwhile God increased the CO2 in the atmosphere to new highs:

uk.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-greenhouse/carbon-dioxide-levels-grew-at-record-pace-in-2016-u-n-says-idUKKBN1CZ0YB

(The FACT that humans put some 30,000,000,000 tons of it into the atmosphere had nothing to do with it, right, Ron?)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lawndarter 3]

RonD1120

As for my grandchildren, my biggest concern for them is the decadence of progressive liberalism and its negative effect on the American populace. But then again, I have no control. I can only pray for them and vote my conscience.

When I look at society, specifically "western" society, I realize that pretty much everything positive about it is because of progressive liberalism - from paid vacation to social security to public education to police and fire services, (in my case) universal healthcare, capped work with, workplace health and safety standards, clean drinking water, clean air, etc etc etc.

[gowlerk 1,916]

Lawndarter

***
As for my grandchildren, my biggest concern for them is the decadence of progressive liberalism and its negative effect on the American populace. But then again, I have no control. I can only pray for them and vote my conscience.

When I look at society, specifically "western" society, I realize that pretty much everything positive about it is because of progressive liberalism - from paid vacation to social security to public education to police and fire services, (in my case) universal healthcare, capped work with, workplace health and safety standards, clean drinking water, clean air, etc etc etc.


Good point. There is a word for all the things Ron stands for. The word is fundamentalism and it is evil in all it's forms. He claims to only want the government to leave him alone. But he also wants it to control what everyone else does, unless he approves of it. Conservatism is based on fear of change and a desire for control of society. The level of hypocrisy in "Christian" culture of this sort is so astounding that I seldom comment on it anymore. It is just so obvious that it needs no comment. The world can plainly see it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Lawndarter 3]

RonD1120

I see liberals as living in a world of problems and negativity that require power and control which can only be funded by taking money and control from conservatives.

Strange thing. It seems to me that liberals simply are willing to realize that there are in fact problems in the world, and that they do in fact require effort to solve. But it's because we don't live in a world of pessimism and negativity that we do that - in fact, when I see pessimism, fear, anger, outrage, etc, it's generally from conservatives. Liberals tend to be more likely to say "something's wrong, what can we do?".

[Phil1111 913]

gowlerk

******
As for my grandchildren, my biggest concern for them is the decadence of progressive liberalism and its negative effect on the American populace. But then again, I have no control. I can only pray for them and vote my conscience.

When I look at society, specifically "western" society, I realize that pretty much everything positive about it is because of progressive liberalism - from paid vacation to social security to public education to police and fire services, (in my case) universal healthcare, capped work with, workplace health and safety standards, clean drinking water, clean air, etc etc etc.


Good point. There is a word for all the things Ron stands for. The word is fundamentalism and it is evil in all it's forms.

Well.... no. Ron has views that paint the political spectrum in black and white. If you'll pardon the pun. Not, necessarily in a racist way but instead either right or left. Without a middle ground. Not that he is unique.

Thats part of the development of partisan US political system. Where super PAC's unduly influence who runs in primaries, radicalizes the nominees and primary election process.

In addition, the benefits of "progressive liberalism" have been endorsed by conservatives and a equal credit MUST be given to free market economics. Otherwise you could equally argue communism and Marxist ideology deserve more credit for those same above mentioned benefits.

IMO business like Amazon, Walmart and businessmen like Gates and Buffet. Operate and grow to bring new disruptive economies to the equal benefit of all. Only through economic growth, primarily through private business. Is the "progressive liberalism" benefits aforementioned, paid for. In western capitalist economies.

[DJL 232]

Quote

One of the basic tenants of AA is to let go and let God. The Serenity Prayer cautions us not to think about or worry about things over which we have no control.

That is 100% putting your head in the sand because you pretend like it's something you can't see.

Try this, draw a circle on a sheet of paper, that's 12000 km, the diameter of the earth. Now cut it in half to 6000 km, and that side in half (3000 km), now that into three parts (1000 km each). Now take that width of the 1000 km and draw the same height from the surface of the circle outwards and again cut it in half (500 km) and that half into fifths (100 km each), we're at the width of pen strokes now. One pen stroke, 100 km represents all gases within our atmosphere. At half of that pen stroke you're still at 99.9% of gasses. It's not until you're down at 20 km that you're at 90% of gasses. Around 10 km and you're at the height of the Himalayas, gasses still not concentrated enough to sustain life and that mountain range rises so high that it does not allow weather to pass North creating a rain shadow which forms the Gobi desert. This 20km film surrounding the planet is what we're dealing with and I think you know from skydiving that only 1/4 of that (3.1 miles/5 km) is concentrated enough for humans to breath and represents 50% of the air on the planet. 20km (12.4 miles), Ron. That's what we're dealing with. Can you see that now?

Currently, the concentration of CO2 is the highest it's been in 20 million years, 100 ppm higher than it should be. That 100 ppm difference usually takes 5000-20,000 years according to records but has only taken the last 120 years to accumulate.

Is any of this getting through to you? We ARE capable of changing the atmosphere and we ARE capable of reversing the effects. However, the problem is that instead of agreeing with the concepts of science that you follow in almost every other aspect of your life you're more interested in politics. YOU are in the way of fixing the problem we started. YOUR vote, YOUR influence on those around you, YOUR ignorance of the facts and YOUR stubbornness in admitting the truth.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[normiss 622]

I see liberals religion as living in a world of problems and negativity that require power and control which can only be funded by taking money and control from conservatives humans.

[billvon 2,413]

>I have difficulty believing that conservatives in general blame others and become victims.

Well, on this topic alone we see that disproved.

You have said that climate change is something that's out of our hands. RushMC claims to be the victim of a vast left wing conspiracy to convince people that the climate is changing and new gases are to blame. On a larger stage, conservatives try to convince people that Al Gore is the problem, rather than any climactic problem. Victims looking for someone to be victims to.

Liberals are, for the most part, just trying to solve the problem. They're more about solutions than blame.

[Phil1111 913]

billvon

>I have difficulty believing that conservatives in general blame others and become victims.

Well, on this topic alone we see that disproved.

You have said that climate change is something that's out of our hands. RushMC claims to be the victim of a vast left wing conspiracy to convince people that the climate is changing and new gases are to blame. On a larger stage, conservatives try to convince people that Al Gore is the problem, rather than any climactic problem. Victims looking for someone to be victims to.

Liberals are, for the most part, just trying to solve the problem. They're more about solutions than blame.

and the answer to
"What happens when climate change deniers study the science"

They go green and take action:

Hi John,

Quote:
Renewable energy is working

Looks like coal is slowly but surely going into the ash heap of history:

https://www.nbcnews.com/...ll-its-power-n814861

Jerry Baumchen

The Mayor of St. Louis, "Texas Republican Mayor Pushes for Renewable Energy". So there is hope for the science of climate denial. When trump is in the ash heap of history.

[kallend 1,635]

Phil1111

***>I have difficulty believing that conservatives in general blame others and become victims.

Well, on this topic alone we see that disproved.

You have said that climate change is something that's out of our hands. RushMC claims to be the victim of a vast left wing conspiracy to convince people that the climate is changing and new gases are to blame. On a larger stage, conservatives try to convince people that Al Gore is the problem, rather than any climactic problem. Victims looking for someone to be victims to.

Liberals are, for the most part, just trying to solve the problem. They're more about solutions than blame.

and the answer to
"What happens when climate change deniers study the science"

They go green and take action:

Hi John,

Quote:
Renewable energy is working

Looks like coal is slowly but surely going into the ash heap of history:

https://www.nbcnews.com/...ll-its-power-n814861

Jerry Baumchen

The Mayor of St. Louis, "Texas Republican Mayor Pushes for Renewable Energy". So there is hope for the science of climate denial. When trump is in the ash heap of history.

Texas has the most installed wind generation capacity of any state.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 58]

DJL

Is any of this getting through to you? We ARE capable of changing the atmosphere and we ARE capable of reversing the effects. However, the problem is that instead of agreeing with the concepts of science that you follow in almost every other aspect of your life you're more interested in politics. YOU are in the way of fixing the problem we started. YOUR vote, YOUR influence on those around you, YOUR ignorance of the facts and YOUR stubbornness in admitting the truth.

When you develop a solution that all the nations in the world are willing accept you will be a very rich man. Look at all the money Al Gore made just by starting the controversy and he doesn't even live by his own philosophy.

Meanwhile, here in the north GA mountains I maintain a position of disinterest.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 622]

You fully validated his point Ron.

[billvon 2,413]

>>On a larger stage, conservatives try to convince people that Al Gore is the problem

Four posts later:

>Look at all the money Al Gore made

Bravo.

>When you develop a solution that all the nations in the world are willing accept
>you will be a very rich man.

There are half a dozen solutions that the world is accepting. Solar. Wind. EV's. Battery storage. Thermal storage. It hasn't made any one man really rich (with the possible exception of Musk) but it has started industries that employ ~800,000 people. And they are all a little richer.

[kallend 1,635]

RonD1120

Meanwhile, here in the north GA mountains I maintain a position of disinterest.

How very Christian of you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

RonD1120

***
Is any of this getting through to you? We ARE capable of changing the atmosphere and we ARE capable of reversing the effects. However, the problem is that instead of agreeing with the concepts of science that you follow in almost every other aspect of your life you're more interested in politics. YOU are in the way of fixing the problem we started. YOUR vote, YOUR influence on those around you, YOUR ignorance of the facts and YOUR stubbornness in admitting the truth.

When you develop a solution that all the nations in the world are willing accept you will be a very rich man. Look at all the money Al Gore made just by starting the controversy and he doesn't even live by his own philosophy.

Meanwhile, here in the north GA mountains I maintain a position of disinterest.

Simply put, you need to try harder than that. There's nowhere in God's clause of leaving it in his hands where he means that it's OK to make no attempt at doing it yourself. You really have no idea what his plan is regarding the human race so it's incredibly vain to say that we should make no attempt at ensuring its future on this planet.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[RonD1120 58]

Yep, I accept that one as true.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

OK but, it's all above my pay grade. I am a counselor by profession, not an engineer, scientist, politician or whatever the job description that works on this issue.

My focus is peace of mind. I have it where I am with God and my community. You guys in the city can fret all you want. I wish you well.

God is in control, still on the throne and the Bible states that after the Millennial Reign of Christ the earth will be destroyed by fire. We may just simply be right on schedule.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

Hi Ron,

Quote

a solution that all the nations in the world are willing accept

I seriously doubt that such a solution ( all the nations in the world ) is possible.

However, IMO the Kyoto Accords is a very good starting point.

Jerry Baumchen