Women accuse Morgan Freeman of inappropriate behavior, harassment

[airdvr 197]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html

It will be interesting to see if he's vilified like Cosby.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,255]

That's very disappointing.

However - while it is sleazy, disgusting and utterly unnacceptable behaviour... Bill Cosby is a serial rapist. On that basis he should not be vilified "like Cosby".

"Like Trump" would be more appropriate - though some of the accusations of sexual violence against Trump are still worse.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[TriGirl 268]

I concur -- though I would point out that the behavior detailed in the article is exactly what the #TimesUp movement is all about. Way too many men who behave(d) like this, with way too many women having to adjust their attire or behavior to avoid the insult And way, WAY too many bystanders dismissing it and letting the victim carry the whole burden (side note: it's this kind of acceptance of this behavior that leads to burkas).

It's just another example of how we've had to deal with this crap all our lives -- and how we aren't taking it anymore.

From another point of view, this is also indicative of men in power situations ("stars," executives, the son of the company president, etc) whom no one is willing to challenge because of who they are to the company/production/movie.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[jcd11235 0]

jakee

That's very disappointing.

That was my exact thought when I first read the news.

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[JamesBond 0]

Ah, damn. A little surprised, but mostly disappointed as I had a lot of respect for him, and perceived him as a classy guy.

[wmw999 2,122]

I’m disappointed, too.

There’s such a continuum between the clearly unacceptable actions of a Harvey Weinstein (never mind slipping roofies into a drink!), and, say, a friend at the dz saying “hey, babe.” Context and power matter — even at the dz, if the guy saying it is a jerk who also happens to be the BMOC organizer, it’s still another place on that line.

And people’s reception is just as much of a moving target; one never knows when saying “hey babe” to a good friend at the dz if that’s what an abusive ex-boyfriend used to call them.

Power is fun to throw around sometimes for a lot of people. But differentiating when it’s OK (shutting down a stupid by-conversation in a meeting) and when it isn’t (pressuring subordinates to donate to management’s wedding gift, or to date) is hard. No one gets it right all the time.

And a transgression is only a part of the picture. Harvey Weinstein still made some great movies. Bill Clinton was a great politician. And Francois Villon was a great poet.

Me, I assume good intentions, and try to treat with respect. I’ve alienated people, so obviously I didn’t nail it every time, either.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bob_Church 7]

airdvr

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html

It will be interesting to see if he's vilified like Cosby.

What worries me, a lot, about the Cosby conviction is the way qualuudes in the 70s are being equated with roofies today. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet even one of the jurors said that what convinced him to find Cosby guilty was the qualuudes.

[jakee 1,255]

Bob_Church

What worries me, a lot, about the Cosby conviction is the way qualuudes in the 70s are being equated with roofies today. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet even one of the jurors said that what convinced him to find Cosby guilty was the qualuudes.

They're both well used and well documented date rape drugs.

What exactly worries you about how they were equated?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Bob_Church 7]

I can remember when a lot of women's sexual pleasure was so enhance by qualuudes that they wouldn't have sex without them. Bring luudes or stay home. And it wasn't trading sex for drugs, the drugs were for her during sex. I remember this from the early 70s but that's when I was dating so I don't know what the situation was later. In 1973 Rolling Stones Magazine, hardly a proponent of "just say no" ran an article warning women to maybe go easy, those things can kill you.

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

… the drugs were for her during sex.

But (presumably) not for compromising her judgement in order to obtain consent no meaningful resistance to sex.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[ryoder 1,384]

Bob_Church

I can remember when a lot of women's sexual pleasure was so enhance by qualuudes that they wouldn't have sex without them. Bring luudes or stay home. And it wasn't trading sex for drugs, the drugs were for her during sex.

Well, damn!
Now you tell me!
I never brought 'luudes, so I must have missed a lot of opportunities.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Bob_Church 7]

ryoder

***I can remember when a lot of women's sexual pleasure was so enhance by qualuudes that they wouldn't have sex without them. Bring luudes or stay home. And it wasn't trading sex for drugs, the drugs were for her during sex.

Well, damn!
Now you tell me!
I never brought 'luudes, so must have missed a lot of opportunities.

Sopers? It was a pill with many names. And uses. It may just be that I never heard, those were pre-cable news let alone internet days but I never heard of drugs being used for rape except for alchohol. Maybe it's later developments or like I said I just never heard of it. Unfortunately things like this tend to be ignored for a long time.
But yes, methaqualone as a sex enhancement for women was like poppers for gay men in the 80s.

[jakee 1,255]

Bob_Church

I can remember when a lot of women's sexual pleasure was so enhance by qualuudes that they wouldn't have sex without them. Bring luudes or stay home. And it wasn't trading sex for drugs, the drugs were for her during sex. I remember this from the early 70s but that's when I was dating so I don't know what the situation was later.

That's by the by though really.

Most women like sex - it doesn't mean rape is ok. Some women like drugs - it doesn't mean being drugged is ok.

There is a huge difference between taking a powerful psychoactive drug willingly and having it slipped in a drink without knowing what's about to happen. Hell, the fact that some women like the drug actually makes it more likely that perverts and rapists would use it - because if they got caught they'd just say "Yeah I gave her some 'luudes, she asked for them. You know how crazy the girl are for that stuff...."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Bob_Church 7]

Bill Cosby against The People

Statement 1: The only reason to give a woman qualuudes is to make her unable to resist. Bill Cosby has admitted to giving women Qualuudes before sex. So, there is only one possibility.
Bill Cospy used qualuudes to rape women.

Reply to statement 1: That's not accurate. Many women say that qualuudes greatly enhance the pleasure they get out of sex and in fact would rather just not have sex if qualuudes aren't available.

Statement 2. But that doesn't matter. If you look at statement 1 you'll see that Bill Cosby used qualuudes to rape women.

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

Statement 1: The only reason to give a woman qualuudes is to make her unable to resist. Bill Cosby has admitted to giving women Qualuudes before sex. So, there is only one possibility.
Bill Cospy used qualuudes to rape women.

Where does that statement come from?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,123]

I think you are missing the part where the drugs were given to women without their knowledge or consent.

[billvon 2,400]

Quote

Reply to statement 1: That's not accurate. Many women say that qualuudes greatly enhance the pleasure they get out of sex and in fact would rather just not have sex if qualuudes aren't available.

Right. And some women are into rape fantasies. That doesn't mean rape is OK. CONSENT is the issue.

[Bob_Church 7]

billvon

Quote

Reply to statement 1: That's not accurate. Many women say that qualuudes greatly enhance the pleasure they get out of sex and in fact would rather just not have sex if qualuudes aren't available.

Right. And some women are into rape fantasies. That doesn't mean rape is OK. CONSENT is the issue.

It should be, yes. But when a juror says that when he heard that Cosby had given women qualuudes that was enough for him.
I find that worrisome. Here's one of many accounts of that statement.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-bill-cosby-jury-decision-20180430-story.html

It feels so circular.

"He's admitted giving the women qualuudes.

But some women want qualuudes.

Oh, well, but it was still rape by forcing them on the women.

Where did you get that he forced them on the women?

Aren't you listening? He's admitted giving the women qualuudes. "

[gowlerk 1,913]

Quote

But when a juror says that when he heard that Cosby had given women qualuudes that was enough for him.

There were 12 jury members seven men and 5 women 2 of them were black, the rest white. They all heard the evidence and returned an unanimous verdict. The words of one of those jurors quoted in a newspaper may be worrisome to you, but his opinion is not the same as 12 people's opinion.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,400]

>But when a juror says that when he heard that Cosby had given women qualuudes that
>was enough for him.

If I was on a jury, and I heard that an accused rapist had given drugs to women without their consent in order to have sex with them, that would be 90% of the argument. That demonstrates both motive and means.

[jcd11235 0]

jakee

Quote

Statement 1: The only reason to give a woman qualuudes is to make her unable to resist. Bill Cosby has admitted to giving women Qualuudes before sex. So, there is only one possibility.
Bill Cospy used qualuudes to rape women.

Where does that statement come from?

That's what I was wondering.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

billvon

>But when a juror says that when he heard that Cosby had given women qualuudes that
>was enough for him.

If I was on a jury, and I heard that an accused rapist had given drugs to women without their consent in order to have sex with them, that would be 90% of the argument. That demonstrates both motive and means.

On the off chance that you or anyone else on here would read the link I posted or the ones I posted previously you might see what I'm saying. And the constant "who said that" might end.

But I'm not optimistic about any of those things.

[billvon 2,400]

>On the off chance that you or anyone else on here would read the link I posted or the
>ones I posted previously you might see what I'm saying.

I did. And I stand by my statement.

[Bob_Church 7]

billvon

>On the off chance that you or anyone else on here would read the link I posted or the
>ones I posted previously you might see what I'm saying.

I did. And I stand by my statement.

That's hardly a surprise.

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

It feels so circular.

Because you've invented a circular argument that no-one else is using. You're disagreeing wth your own strawman.

Quote

Oh, well, but it was still rape by forcing them on the women.

Where did you get that he forced them on the women?

Numerous independent accounts by numerous different women over many, many years.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?