Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

billvon

>Problem is there are far more people that want to come through the gate than the
>system and country can absorb . . . .

Why do you think that? Immigration as a percentage of our population is lower than when my grandparents came over; that wasn't "more than we could absorb." Ever since before the US has been a country, people here have been saying that immigrants will end the US; that everyone will be speaking German (or Italian, or be drunk all the time like the Irish) rather than English. Has never happened. Every group of immigrants we've added has made the country a little stronger and a little more diverse. And we're not even seeing as many, on a percentage basis, as we were in 1910.

There you go again, using facts and data.

How many immigrants could we 'absorb'?

There's currently something like 11 million illegals in the country right now.
They seem to be 'absorbing' just fine. There are still labor shortages in lots of markets, often for unskilled, low paid positions.

You know, the jobs traditionally taken by...

Immigrants.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,402]

Interesting article from The Atlantic that speaks to some of the issues in this thread. The story talks about religious cults - but of course there are a lot of different kinds of cults.

======================
The Seven Signs You're in a Cult

BOZE HERRINGTON
JUN 18, 2014

. . . .

For three weeks, Hannah and I had been trying to contact leaders at IHOP [International House of Prayer] about a prayer group that we, Bethany, and many of our friends had been part of—a small, independent community that drew on IHOP's teachings. In February, I had been formally excommunicated, and Hannah had left in June. Looking in from the outside, both of us saw the group differently than we had when we were part of it: We saw it as a cult.

Several years ago, the founder of IHOP, Mike Bickle, created a list of seven ways to recognize the difference between a religious community and a cult. Written down, the signs seem clear:

1. Opposing critical thinking

2. Isolating members and penalizing them for leaving

3. Emphasizing special doctrines outside scripture

4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders

5. Dishonoring the family unit

6. Crossing Biblical boundaries of behavior

7. Separation from the Church
====================

Eerie.

[Bob_Church 7]

There are about a quarter of a million women in prison in the US. I wonder if any of these same activists have ever tried to help one of them see their children?

[billvon 2,402]

>USCIS receives around six million Visa applications a year (among the different types of H,
>J, permanent, temp worker, etc.) Even if they could figure out a way to expand, process,
>and admit them all in a timely matter there would still be more swarming the gates. That is
>my point. I am not anti-immigrant but there will always be more coming.

And that is a good thing, overall. Always has been.

>This is just like working the free clinics in Appalachia. There are always more patients,
>more teeth to pull, more eyes to check and glasses to make than can be provided.

Good example. And all the work those doctors do to treat those patients has a very positive benefit overall for the people who live around there. And if you look at the effect those free clinics have across the country - those free clinics improve life in America significantly.

Imagine shutting them all down because "well, they only treat criminals."

[gowlerk 1,915]

Bob_Church

There are about a quarter of a million women in prison in the US. I wonder if any of these same activists have ever tried to help one of them see their children?

There you go again. Equating asylum seekers with convicted felons.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,402]

The latest casualty in the war on immigrants - some drug smugglers will not be prosecuted because the Justice Department is too busy going after immigrants.

==============
Trump's immigration crackdown 'diverting' resources from drug cases
Brad Heath, USA TODAY Published 10:44 p.m. ET June 22, 2018

Federal prosecutors warned they were diverting resources from drug-smuggling cases in southern California to handle the flood of immigration charges brought on by the Trump administration’s border crackdown, records obtained by USA TODAY show.

Days after Attorney General Jeff Sessions instructed prosecutors to bring charges against anyone who enters the United States illegally, a Justice Department supervisor in San Diego sent an email to border authorities warning that immigration cases “will occupy substantially more of our resources.” He wrote that the U.S. Attorney’s Office there was “diverting staff, both support and attorneys, accordingly.”

The email, sent by the lawyer who runs the office’s major crimes unit, said prosecutors needed to streamline their work on smuggling cases. He said that would mean tight deadlines – sometimes just a few hours to produce reports and recordings – for those that would land in federal court. Going forward, the lawyer, Fred Sheppard, warned, if agents can’t meet that high bar, “the case will be declined.”
==============

So if you arrest an MS-13 drug smuggler, there might not be enough people in the prosecutor's office to even prosecute the case - because they need the manpower to put a 4 year old in jail with her mother. So the MS-13 smuggler gets released.

Feel safer yet?

[wmw999 2,124]

Well, after the War on Minorities had peace declared in the 1960’s (though hostilities certainly didn’t end), and the War on Drugs seems to be waning, we needed a new war. Terrorism is too far away and amorphous — immigrants make a good target.

Some people just need a good enemy. Point them at one and they’re good to go.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JoeWeber 2,306]

wmw999

Well, after the War on Minorities had peace declared in the 1960’s (though hostilities certainly didn’t end), and the War on Drugs seems to be waning, we needed a new war. Terrorism is too far away and amorphous — immigrants make a good target.

Some people just need a good enemy. Point them at one and they’re good to go.

Wendy P.

As ever. Of course, there are still a few libtards and pro-choicers to whack around on the way to protecting our borders from our grandparents relatives.

[Bob_Church 7]

gowlerk

***There are about a quarter of a million women in prison in the US. I wonder if any of these same activists have ever tried to help one of them see their children?

There you go again. Equating asylum seekers with convicted felons.

You really think the children care either way?

[gowlerk 1,915]

Quote

Some people just need a good enemy. Point them at one and they’re good to go.

This clearly is Trump's strategy for the upcoming election. He is already pumping up his basket of deplorables. We should all be thankful he is not using a foreign war instead. Probably saving that play for 2020.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,915]

Bob_Church

******There are about a quarter of a million women in prison in the US. I wonder if any of these same activists have ever tried to help one of them see their children?

There you go again. Equating asylum seekers with convicted felons.

You really think the children care either way?

You were not defending the children. You were attacking the activists.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,402]

>You really think the children care either way?

In many cases, yes.

If a child was separated from his parent because the parent was regularly beating them, and is now in prison, then the child would likely prefer to be away from them - and keeping them separated and the parents in jail is a good idea overall. (No doubt the child will be conflicted.)

Again, there is a difference between a criminal and a refugee. It's remarkable you don't understand that.

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

billvon

>You really think the children care either way?

In many cases, yes.

If a child was separated from his parent because the parent was regularly beating them, and is now in prison, then the child would likely prefer to be away from them - and keeping them separated and the parents in jail is a good idea overall. (No doubt the child will be conflicted.)

Again, there is a difference between a criminal and a refugee. It's remarkable you don't understand that.

What's remarkable is the level of false equivalence the Trumpettes need to reach down to in order to defend him.

This is a good example, another is the recent meme going around FB that shows pics of soldiers being deployed saying goodbye to their kids and comparing it to the recent shitshow with the immigrants.

Another is comparing Trump's near adulation of KJU to Obama's meeting Fidel Castro. Again, huge (and I mean HYOOOOOGE) differences in the tone and statements.
Praise and adulation on one hand, criticism and conditions on the other.

But to the Trumpettes, they are the same.

The list of examples is pretty long.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rushmc 18]

So now anti Trump open borber Democratic lunatics are turning into animal abusers!

https://wtop.com/government/2018/06/increasing-threats-to-homeland-security-include-burned-animal-carcass-left-on-staffers-porch/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TriGirl 268]

Please be careful with whom you lump into a particular moniker. It does nothing for your cause.

Let's try this again:

Quote

So now anti Trump open border Democratic lunatics are turning into sick animal abusers are using this issue to validate their violent tendencies!

Much more appropriate.

I agree with this spokesperson:

Quote

“People can disagree on policy,” ICE spokeswoman Liz Johnson said in a statement to ABC News, “but it is unconscionable to target our employees and advocate violence against federal law enforcement officers.”

...or to mutilate animals.

Yes, let's disagree on policy. And let's all be evolved humans who can express their opinions intelligently. People on all sides of an issue (yes, I'm trying to help you here, Marc) should consider their own legitimacy when deciding how to express themselves in opposition to another's actions.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[ryoder 1,390]

AP: Authorities abandon effort to prosecute immigrant families: https://www.apnews.com/23c44b26627f4adcbcdb69504f9dab88/Authorities-abandon-effort-to-prosecute-immigrant-families

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[gowlerk 1,915]

ryoder

AP: Authorities abandon effort to prosecute immigrant families: https://www.apnews.com/23c44b26627f4adcbcdb69504f9dab88/Authorities-abandon-effort-to-prosecute-immigrant-families

It's only temporary until they can build some prison camps.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,915]

rushmc

So now anti Trump open borber Democratic lunatics are turning into animal abusers!

https://wtop.com/government/2018/06/increasing-threats-to-homeland-security-include-burned-animal-carcass-left-on-staffers-porch/

But not to be out done the lunatic right fringe is making death threats. (From the same source as Marc's link)

https://wtop.com/dc/2018/06/dcs-red-hen-gets-death-threats-after-sanders-incident-in-va-restaurant/slide/1/

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,402]

From that article:

"The comments by Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan came shortly after Attorney General Jeff Sessions defended the administration’s tactics in a speech in Nevada and asserted that many children were brought to the border by violent gang members."

Yeah, that's it! They're not really kids. OK? OK? No? Not buying that? OK, then they are kids, but the detention centers are like playgrounds. No, like _summer_camp!_ Who wouldn't want to be in summer camp? Right? Can you . . no?

OK how about this. They are actors! That's right, they're not really families, they are liberal actors who are US citizens who are getting intentionally arrested so they can, uh . . . OK, never mind.

Well, we're not separating families at all! It's all liberal lies! Yeah, that's the ticket. No proof! There's . . wait, what? Trump just tweeted WHAT? OK, never mind on that one either.

No, what's really happening is that the families are . . . uh. . . . VIOLENT GANG MEMBERS! That's right, they are violent gang members just using kids to get into the country. Yeah, that's the ticket!

[rushmc 18]

Please bill, you and yours I asked not to stop what you're doing!

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/06/25/nolte-border-separation-hoax-delivers-disastrous-week-for-establishment-media/

Hey, all of you left you liberals, refute the content. If you can.

I don't think you really understand how bad you all have looked for the last 10 days!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,915]

Quote

I don't think you really understand how bad you all have looked for the last 10 days!

The resistance is strong Marc. I'm not surprised that looks bad to you.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

I don't think you really understand how bad you all have looked for the last 10 days!

Uh-huh...

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2550

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[jakee 1,257]

rushmc

Hey, all of you left you liberals, refute the content. If you can.

You remember what I said in your 'fact vs opinion' thread? About how it's one thing being able to do it when you know it's a test and another thing when you're navigationg the real world? This is a perfect example of that principle.

There is no content to refute that relates to the border seperation coverage, save for the assertion that the current policy was exactly the same as previous policy - which is a clear and obvious lie. The rest was just unhinged ranting about unrelated nonsense.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,632]

More bald-faced LIES from the Trump administration.

www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jun/25/brad-parscale/tyes-immigrant-children-detained-under-obama-they-/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,402]

Uh oh! Churches are getting politically incorrect! Some people are going to get VERY butthurt over this, I predict.
==================
A Church Is Protesting Family Separation By Putting The Holy Family In ICE Detention

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were homeless and fled danger to seek asylum," the church's dean said.

Posted on July 3, 2018

. . .

“When I read the stories of the Holy Family in scripture, they were in the middle of some pretty heated things," Dean Stephen Carlsen told RTV6. "They had to flee for asylum in Egypt. ... The powers of the day were threatening and indeed killing people in Jesus’s day. They were a homeless family with nowhere to stay. I think our faith tells us where we need to be.”

“The fact that it’s controversial isn’t because I want to be controversial,” the dean continued. “What’s controversial is that we are turning away from the values that should be guiding us. The point of a religious icon is to move our hearts, and if at first people are upset by it, that might just be God trying to move their heart. And I hope their hearts soften.”

In a statement provided to media, the dean said, "Holy Scripture is clear about how we are to treat people trying to find safety for their families—we are to show mercy and welcome them. ... We will not stand by while children are being taken from their parents, and families are being taken from our communities and congregations. People of good will and faith must not allow this to continue."
=================