Russiagate

[billvon 2,400]

Rudy Giuliani just laid out what may be Team Trump's underlying legal strategy: "truth isn't truth." I mean, sure, technically it's true that his campaign team secretly met with a Russian agent to seek compromising information on Clinton, and it's true that Trump asked Russia to hack US servers - but just because it's true doesn't mean it's "true!"

[jclalor 12]

billvon

Rudy Giuliani just laid out what may be Team Trump's underlying legal strategy: "truth isn't truth." I mean, sure, technically it's true that his campaign team secretly met with a Russian agent to seek compromising information on Clinton, and it's true that Trump asked Russia to hack US servers - but just because it's true doesn't mean it's "true!"

I think you’re going to need a whole new thread on “Giuliani Gaffes”.

[ryoder 1,384]

Putin Reportedly Close to Firing Giuliani

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-reportedly-close-to-firing-giuliani

The last line is great!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,400]

The Giuliani Defense:

"Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, President Trump is accused of conspiring with Russians to get hacked information on Hillary Clinton. But he keeps admitting things in tweets that seem to support that very claim, while maintaining his innocence! This does not make sense!

Why would Donald Trump, a reality TV show star, deliberately tweet things that harm his case? That does not make sense! And why would Rudy Giuliani claim that "truth isn't truth?" Why would Kellyanne Conway claim that the Trump administration uses "alternative facts?" That does not make sense! And why would President Trump hire incompetent, and in many cases, criminal people for his administration after he said he'd hire the best people? And why in the world would Rudy claim that Trump paid the money to Cohen to hush up that porn star? That does not make sense!

But more important, you have to ask yourself - What does a porn star do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a highly paid lawyer defending the president of the United States, and I'm talking about having sex with porn stars! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and coagulating the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No ! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If I'm talking about sex with porn stars, you must acquit! The defense rests."

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

Hey rush, how do you feel about the papadopolous sentencing document that mentions his contacts to Russia on behalf of trump campaign and accepting a bribe from someone he believed to be a spy for another country (not Russia)?

I mean, I know you say the campaign didn’t collude with Russia, but the people who allegedly colluded are pleading guilty to it. Sooooo? What’s your opinion on that? I’m asking for you opinion, not some right wing talking points.

[rushmc 18]

LeeroyJenkins

Hey rush, how do you feel about the papadopolous sentencing document that mentions his contacts to Russia on behalf of trump campaign and accepting a bribe from someone he believed to be a spy for another country (not Russia)?

I mean, I know you say the campaign didn’t collude with Russia, but the people who allegedly colluded are pleading guilty to it. Sooooo? What’s your opinion on that? I’m asking for you opinion, not some right wing talking points.

My opinion? He was a tool. He was used. He pleaded guilty to stop the bleeding like so many before him. if you follow everything that happened leading up to that day of his meeting you'll understand what I'm saying.

Funny how you got you left wing talking points down pat though!

All of this shit going on and still nothing nothing, nothing links back to Trump. Are you guys getting nervous yet?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

rushmc

***Hey rush, how do you feel about the papadopolous sentencing document that mentions his contacts to Russia on behalf of trump campaign and accepting a bribe from someone he believed to be a spy for another country (not Russia)?

I mean, I know you say the campaign didn’t collude with Russia, but the people who allegedly colluded are pleading guilty to it. Sooooo? What’s your opinion on that? I’m asking for you opinion, not some right wing talking points.

My opinion? He was a tool. He was used. He pleaded guilty to stop the bleeding like so many before him. if you follow everything that happened leading up to that day of his meeting you'll understand what I'm saying.

Funny how you got you left wing talking points down pat though!

All of this shit going on and still nothing nothing, nothing links back to Trump. Are you guys getting nervous yet?

So Trump had nothing to do with the Trump campaign? Fascinating.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

rushmc

***Hey rush, how do you feel about the papadopolous sentencing document that mentions his contacts to Russia on behalf of trump campaign and accepting a bribe from someone he believed to be a spy for another country (not Russia)?

I mean, I know you say the campaign didn’t collude with Russia, but the people who allegedly colluded are pleading guilty to it. Sooooo? What’s your opinion on that? I’m asking for you opinion, not some right wing talking points.

My opinion? He was a tool. He was used. He pleaded guilty to stop the bleeding like so many before him. if you follow everything that happened leading up to that day of his meeting you'll understand what I'm saying.

Funny how you got you left wing talking points down pat though!

All of this shit going on and still nothing nothing, nothing links back to Trump. Are you guys getting nervous yet?

Thank you for your opinion, and answering a question directly. I do understand what you are saying.

Left wing talking points? I read the sentencing suggestion that muller filed. I don't know if you forgot already but I study policy, and I'm a moderate republican. To answer your question, no I am not nervous. I have nothing to be nervous about, either the trump campaign clouded or it didn't. I have full confidence in Muller finding out with one it the truth.


Here is the relevant section, (I underlined a very important line) if you haven't read it Rush. Also a link to the entire thing. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4776071/a106dd6d-64e2-43c0-9da1-a90a48ed8daa.pdf

"The defendant’s crime was serious and caused damage to the government’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The defendant lied in order to conceal his contacts with Russians and Russian intermediaries during the campaign and made his false statements to investigators on January 27, 2017, early in the investigation, when key investigative decisions, including who to interview and when, were being made...Instead of telling the truth, however, the defendant repeatedly lied throughout the interview in order to conceal the timing and significance of information the defendant had received regarding the Russians possessing “dirt” on Hillary Clinton, as well as his own outreach to Russia on behalf of the campaign....Fourth, the defendant lied about his contacts with Russians and Russian intermediaries during the course of the campaign to minimize both his own role as a witness and the extent of the campaign’s knowledge of his contacts..."

I could post more but you can read the sentencing recommendation.

[rushmc 18]

Let me ask you a question.

IF the Muller investigation clears Trump do you think the left will accept that finding?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yoink 321]

must.

not.

bite.

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

IF the Muller investigation clears Trump do you think the left will accept that finding?

The biggest problem with that question is pretty obvious. It's the fact that you believe in "the left". As if there is a single identifiable enemy for your version of "the right". There are plenty of people on the right who see the dotard for what he is. His enemies list goes far beyond "the left".

Trump was not in a conspiracy with Russia. The Russians are far smarter than that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

rushmc

Let me ask you a question.

IF the Muller investigation clears Trump do you think the left will accept that finding?

I can't speak for all the democrats, republicans, or independents that that don't approve of Trumps actions. I can say that I will accept that finding, and I suspect most moderates will. I do believe more people from "the left" will accept the finding about Trump compared to "the right" accepting the finding about uranium one, Benghazi, and Clintons emails.

If Muller does implicate trump are you going to accept that finding, and do you believe the trump fan base will accept it as well?

[billvon 2,400]

Two notes for today:

1) Trump is now threatening to "take over" the Mueller investigation - "I don't have to stay out, as you know. I can go in and I could ... do whatever, I could run it if I want."

2) Headline from Aug 1973: "Nixon blasts 'false charges' - Asks public to end 'obsession,' get on with nation's business"

[yoink 321]

You missed the bit yesterday where Trump shows that he clearly doesn't understand what perjury is.

Quote

The president expressed fears that investigators could compare his statements with that of others who have testified in the probe, such as former FBI Director James Comey, and that any discrepancies could be used against him.

“So if I say something and he (Comey) says something, and it’s my word against his, and he’s best friends with Mueller, so Mueller might say: ‘Well, I believe Comey,’ and even if I’m telling the truth, that makes me a liar. That’s no good.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-mueller-exclusive/exclusive-trump-is-worried-that-mueller-interview-could-be-a-perjury-trap-idUSKCN1L526P

[billvon 2,400]

>You missed the bit yesterday where Trump shows that he clearly doesn't understand what perjury is.

I think he understands at least that it is lying under oath - and I also think he understands he's effectively incapable of telling the truth at this point.

Let's take something simple. "Why did you fire Comey? Were you thinking about the Russian investigation when you did that?" How does he answer?

The answer that keeps him in office is "I wasn't thinking about it; he was just doing a bad job." But that contradicts several other things he has already said, including "when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said: 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story.' "

So then they ask him about _that._ And he either has to say he made a mistake (and he's shown himself to be incapable of doing that) or justify his statement. And his justification has to include his belief that the whole investigation is faked, which again is a problem.

Any forum where he has to answer honestly (or not at all) is going to be a huge problem for him, because to get through such an interview intact he's going to have to swallow his pride and say "I was wrong" "I can't recall" and/or "I don't want to answer on fifth amendment grounds" almost constantly.

[kallend 1,623]

Cohen has made a plea deal.

I wonder what he has told Mueller.

"ONLY THE BEST PEOPLE CROOKS" for Trump..

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

All this investigation is taking a toll on Trump. From VF, with a few key notes bolded:

========================================
"THEY’RE SQUEEZING DON JR. RIGHT NOW”
AS THE MUELLER SIEGE TIGHTENS, TRUMP’S TWITTER RAGE CRESTS

BY GABRIEL SHERMAN
AUGUST 21, 2018 11:10 AM

White House counsel Don McGahn’s interviews with Mueller have rattled Trump to his core. “Total meltdown,” one outside adviser said of his mood, while a Republican ally described him as “extremely frustrated.”

In recent weeks, Donald Trump has privately expressed doubts about White House lawyer Don McGahn’s loyalty. Trump has vented to aides that McGahn doesn’t support the House Freedom Caucus’s quixotic campaign to impeach Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein—a bank shot that would leave Robert Mueller unprotected. McGahn has also clashed with Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, whom one Republican said McGahn “hates with the intensity of 1,000 burning suns.” There has been talk of Trump replacing McGahn with his outside lawyer Emmet Flood.

But The New York Times’ revelation that McGahn had spoken for more than 30 hours with Mueller’s investigators has rattled Trump and the West Wing to the core, according to three of Trump’s outside advisers, causing Trump to ratchet up his Twitter war on Mueller to new heights. Over the weekend, Jared Kushner described Trump’s mood as “rip-shit,” according to one of the advisers. “Total meltdown” was how another adviser put it. “He’s extremely frustrated,” a Republican close to the White House said.

The biggest fear rippling through the West Wing is that no one knows what McGahn told Mueller during his multiple interviews. “Trump didn’t know how many hours it was,” one Republican briefed on Trump’s thinking said. Last night, The Washington Post reported that McGahn’s lawyer, Bill Burck, has been doing damage control, telling the White House that McGahn did not “incriminate” Trump. That’s provided little solace to Trump and West Wing aides. “You have to understand McGahn kept notes on every single meeting with Trump,” one former West Wing official said. “There’s no way this guy is going to protect him.” . . .

Since news broke of McGahn’s extensive cooperation with Mueller, Trump has been lashing out on Twitter. “He’s got to frame the narrative. He thinks the media is like a shark: you’re either feeding it or it eats you,” one Republican close to the White House said. Privately, Trump blames his precarious position on the people who work for him. Trump’s fury at Attorney General Jeff Sessions, already raging, has been stoked thanks to Sessions’s refusal to resign after months of public abuse. “You can’t talk to Trump without him bringing up Sessions,” one adviser said.

Trump’s frustration with Sessions has even caused him to turn on Giuliani. Over the weekend, Trump blamed Giuliani for the entire Russia probe. According to a person to whom the conversation was described, Trump loudly said to his lawyer: “It’s your fault! I offered you attorney general, but you insisted on being secretary of state. Had I picked you none of this would be happening.”

A lot of what’s driving Trump’s ire, White House advisers said, is Trump’s growing realization that his previous legal team, Ty Cobb and John Dowd, made a strategic error in waiving executive privilege to cooperate fully with Mueller. But Trump being Trump, he won’t admit to making this mistake, so he directs blame onto others. Another theory for what’s motivating Trump’s increasingly unhinged tweets is that Mueller may be closing in on his son Don Jr. “A lot of what Trump is doing is based on the fact [that] Mueller is going after Don Jr.,” a person close to the Trump family told me. “They’re squeezing Don Jr. right now.”
==============

[billvon 2,400]

And update on the Manafort trial -

GUILTY on 8 counts. He is facing 240 years in prison. (Needless to say, his attorney will bargain it down to a far shorter sentence.)

[kallend 1,623]

billvon

And update on the Manafort trial -

GUILTY on 8 counts. He is facing 240 years in prison. (Needless to say, his attorney will bargain it down to a far shorter sentence.)

The Best People (TM)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

Update on Cohen -

In an odd coincidence, he pled guilty to 8 counts as well. This time it is lying to the FBI "in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office" about information "that would have been harmful to the candidate and the campaign."

Maximum sentence 5 years. Guess there's a lesson there - if you're a criminal, it probably pays to cooperate.

[kallend 1,623]

billvon

Update on Cohen -

In an odd coincidence, he pled guilty to 8 counts as well. This time it is lying to the FBI "in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office" about information "that would have been harmful to the candidate and the campaign."

5 counts of tax evasion, 1 of fraud, and 2 of campaign finance violations. Admits paying off 2 women on Trump's behalf.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

Hey rush,

Guess it's time for you to stop supporting trump, or at least question it.

LJ

[kallend 1,623]

LeeroyJenkins

Hey rush,

Guess it's time for you to stop supporting trump, or at least question it.

LJ

Flynn
Papadopoulos
Manafort
Cohen
...

They have the monkeys, time to go after the organ grinder.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,122]

Ha -- the Fox headline will be something like "Manafort innocent on majority of counts" (because, after all, one is innocent until proven guilty )

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pchapman 261]

wmw999

Ha -- the Fox headline will be something like "Manafort innocent on majority of counts" (because, after all, one is innocent until proven guilty )

I just looked at their website.
To give them their due, it was actually "Manafort found guilty on 8 counts in fraud trial; mistrial declared on others". Not so bad.

But it did come after the headline item about the suspected killer of a young white woman having been caught -- and he's an illegal immigrant. Say what one will about the details, I suppose a murder can take precedence over politicians' white collar crimes.