Poll, how do you feel about Trump's entry ban on select nationals

[Royreader8812 0]

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You'd think we could be smarter than this. Just some blanket ban based on country of origin doesn't seem effective to me.

Plus if you think it is a good idea(which I don't), how is Saudi Arabia not on that list?

You might want to consider your sources. If you read the article I linked up a coupled posts, you will find 'the list' was conjured up by the previous administration, and the word Muslim or Islamic does not appear on the order anywhere.

This whole thing is going t prove quite embarrassing to many when they come to realize this. But they will just move to the next meltdown.

[AlanS 1]

airdvr

***This is just wrong.

Stanford PhD Student detained at JFK airport. See link.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Stanford-PhD-Student-Nisrin-Elamin-Abdelrahman-JFK-Trump-Immigration-412073863.html

Nisrin Elamin is a Stanford PhD Student, Harvard graduate and a permeant resident of the US. But because she is a citizen of Sudan she was detained at JFK.

Detained, interrogated and released. The horror.

And this....

Sen. John McCain

Our government has a responsibility to defend our borders, but we must do so in a way that makes us safer and upholds all that is decent and exceptional about our nation.

It is clear from the confusion at our airports across the nation that President Trump’s executive order was not properly vetted. We are particularly concerned by reports that this order went into effect with little to no consultation with the Departments of State, Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security.

Such a hasty process risks harmful results. We should not stop green-card holders from returning to the country they call home. We should not stop those who have served as interpreters for our military and diplomats from seeking refuge in the country they risked their lives to help. And we should not turn our backs on those refugees who have been shown through extensive vetting to pose no demonstrable threat to our nation, and who have suffered unspeakable horrors, most of them women and children.

Ultimately, we fear this executive order will become a self-inflicted wound in the fight against terrorism. At this very moment, American troops are fighting side-by-side with our Iraqi partners to defeat ISIL. But this executive order bans Iraqi pilots from coming to military bases in Arizona to fight our common enemies. Our most important allies in the fight against ISIL are the vast majority of Muslims who reject its apocalyptic ideology of hatred. This executive order sends a signal, intended or not, that America does not want Muslims coming into our country. That is why we fear this executive order may do more to help terrorist recruitment than improve our security.

[Faicon9493 114]

We may be giving Trump too much credit. I think he just put his name on Bannon's homework.

[kallend 1,623]

Royreader8812

The liar part I don't get...

That reflects poorly on YOU.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,384]

Koch network condemns Trump ban on refugees and immigrants
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/29/koch-network-condemns-trump-ban-on-refugees-and-immigrants/

Koch network launches effort to scuttle GOP tax plan that would help pay for border wall
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/koch-network-launches-effort-to-scuttle-gop-tax-plan-that-would-help-pay-for-border-wall/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,384]

Here is Fareed Zakaria outlining the statistics of how many Americans have been killed by anyone from the affected countries, vs how many have been killed by three notable countries *not* in the ban: http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/zakaria-take-executive-order-cnntv/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,384]

Sec of DHS John Kelly orders that ban does not apply to permanent residents (aka green card holders): https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/statement-secretary-john-kelly-entry-lawful-permanent-residents-united-states

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 3]

ryoder

Sec of DHS John Kelly orders that ban does not apply to permanent residents (aka green card holders): https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/statement-secretary-john-kelly-entry-lawful-permanent-residents-united-states

I have a funny feeling some CBP agents aren't going to listen until forced to.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[gowlerk 1,912]

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If you read the article I linked up a coupled posts, you will find 'the list' was conjured up by the previous administration,

Comrade, the new players don't get to blame the old players. Trump owns this and he owns the list.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mistercwood 287]

Royreader8812

You might want to consider your sources. If you read the article I linked up a coupled posts, you will find 'the list' was conjured up by the previous administration, and the word Muslim or Islamic does not appear on the order anywhere.

This whole thing is going t prove quite embarrassing to many when they come to realize this. But they will just move to the next meltdown.

And if you read the comments on the article you'll see others have done my work for me in pointing out the inaccuracies and over-reach in the connections made by the author.

I'm aware the words muslim/islam aren't mentioned in the order. They are however muslim-majority countries, and the order does contain provisions to exempt Christians from the ban. I'm sure you can connect the dots there.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

And if you read the comments on the article you'll see others have done my work for me in pointing out the inaccuracies and over-reach in the connections made by the author.

I'm aware the words muslim/islam aren't mentioned in the order. They are however muslim-majority countries, and the order does contain provisions to exempt Christians from the ban. I'm sure you can connect the dots there.

But you glazed over the bit where the countries were named by the Obama administration and placed into legislation by them...

Quite convenient.

I suppose you condemn this order by trump, but supported Obama illegally bombing the said countries?

Amidst all this hysteria, we have billions of dollars of weapons going to kill people and that is ok... but inconvenienced travellers is abhorrent.

Makes sense.

[gowlerk 1,912]

Royreader8812

Quote

And if you read the comments on the article you'll see others have done my work for me in pointing out the inaccuracies and over-reach in the connections made by the author.

I'm aware the words muslim/islam aren't mentioned in the order. They are however muslim-majority countries, and the order does contain provisions to exempt Christians from the ban. I'm sure you can connect the dots there.

But you glazed over the bit where the countries were named by the Obama administration and placed into legislation by them...

Quite convenient.

I suppose you condemn this order by trump, but supported Obama illegally bombing the said countries?

Amidst all this hysteria, we have billions of dollars of weapons going to kill people and that is ok... but inconvenienced travellers is abhorrent.

Makes sense.

Well now, there you go again. One more time blaming Obama for what Trump has done. You talk a nice game, But the words still add up to alternate facts.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

I lived in Germany when National Socialism was a banned organization and Mein Kampf was illegal as a result of their track record.

Mein Kampf was never illegal in Germany.

[Phil1111 911]

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance.

Confucius, talking about trump.

[nolhtairt 0]

ryoder

Saudi Arabia was the origin of 15 out of 19 hijackers on 9/11, but it is exempt from the ban.
Pakistan was where Bin Laden was living when he was caught, but it is exempt from the ban.

Saudi Arabia and the US have a complicated relationship. They are our ally in the region. They hate Iran. They have billions of dollars in oil exports. I'm not exactly thrilled either.

Pakistan is also another ally in the war on terror, at least at government levels. But both countries do have radicalized citizens.

However, if Obama had not scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system, forcing Trump to start over from scratch... Who knows?

[ryoder 1,384]

NPR interview this morning with Michael Hayden on the topics of the ban and changes to NSC;
No transcript yet, just click the play button at the top left for the audio: http://www.npr.org/2017/01/30/512400246/former-nsa-director-weighs-in-on-national-security-council-changes

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,384]

nolhtairt

However, if Obama had not scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system, forcing Trump to start over from scratch... Who knows?

Please provide evidence for this claim.

U.S. Refugee Admissions Program: https://www.state.gov/j/prm/ra/admissions/index.htm

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[nolhtairt 0]

ryoder

***
However, if Obama had not scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system, forcing Trump to start over from scratch... Who knows?

Please provide evidence for this claim.

Plenty of articles to choose from:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Obama+scrapped+immigrant+vetting+system&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=a953a169fac54c78950bbe1020d9b901&sp=-1&pq=obama+scrapped+imm&sc=0-18&qs=n&sk=&cvid=a953a169fac54c78950bbe1020d9b901

However, I will say that Obama did not use the system the last so and so years, for however long I do not know. But he did scrap it in the last weeks to prevent Trump from using it.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Saudi Arabia and the US have a complicated relationship. They are our ally in the region. They hate Iran. They have billions of dollars in oil exports. I'm not exactly thrilled either.

And if they decide to start trading oil in a different currency....

[Phil1111 911]

ryoder

***
However, if Obama had not scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system, forcing Trump to start over from scratch... Who knows?

Please provide evidence for this claim.

U.S. Refugee Admissions Program: https://www.state.gov/j/prm/ra/admissions/index.htm

I think your head will get tired, bloody and sore, with imprints of the brick wall, after a while on this one.

US vetting of refugees is the same as Canada, Australia and the EU(more or less). Eighteen to 24 months hundreds of documents and days of interviews. Why let facts get in the way of political ideology. Thats why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTtLQz3GNz8

But what the hell. If it makes the day, fulfills the soul and mind. For those who need it.... Blame it on Obama.

[nolhtairt 0]

Well you can damn well bet we're not making the mistake Germany and other European countries did opening the floodgates of unvetted refugees.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

nolhtairt

******
However, if Obama had not scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system, forcing Trump to start over from scratch... Who knows?

Please provide evidence for this claim.

Plenty of articles to choose from:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Obama+scrapped+immigrant+vetting+system&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=a953a169fac54c78950bbe1020d9b901&sp=-1&pq=obama+scrapped+imm&sc=0-18&qs=n&sk=&cvid=a953a169fac54c78950bbe1020d9b901

However, I will say that Obama did not use the system the last so and so years, for however long I do not know. But he did scrap it in the last weeks to prevent Trump from using it.Your information is incorrect, and I can only suppose your sources distort reality out of recognition (in other words, lie) in order to inflame anti-immigrant passions.

Obama suspended NSEERS, an obsolete system to register and track muslims only after they had been thoroughly vetted and admitted into the US. From the linked article:
"By 2011, nearly a decade after the program was enacted, NSEERS had not resulted in a single terrorism conviction. The Department of Homeland Security determined in 2011 that the program was "redundant and did not provide any increase in security,"

Your statement that Obama scrapped and scrubbed the immigrant vetting system is a lie. He scrapped a system that required immigrants from predominantly muslim countries to register and be tracked after they had been thoroughly vetted prior to being issued visas. The system was a waste of money and effort as it never apprehended a single terrorist.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[winsor 186]

SkyDekker

Quote

I lived in Germany when National Socialism was a banned organization and Mein Kampf was illegal as a result of their track record.

Mein Kampf was never illegal in Germany.

"Publicly displaced Nazi iconography was systematically destroyed by the occupying allies at the end of the war, and today, the German criminal code prohibits the public use of a symbol of any “political party which has been declared unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court.” This includes the swastika, the Nazi salute, and several other symbols of the Third Reich. Punishments can range from fines to up to three years in prison. Mein Kampf and other Nazi propaganda works are also banned.

Slate.com JUNE 24 2015

Possession of "Mein Kampf" was not 'banned' per some sources, and its publication was recently authorized by Bavaria.

It seems to depend somewhat on who you ask, and my limited experience with German authorities indicates that, if they say something is illegal, arguing the issue is a bad career move.

Come to think of it, that seems to apply pretty much across the board.

[ryoder 1,384]

winsor

Slate.com JUNE 24 2015

Possession of "Mein Kampf" was not 'banned' per some sources, and its publication was recently authorized by Bavaria.

It seems to depend somewhat on who you ask, and my limited experience with German authorities indicates that, if they say something is illegal, arguing the issue is a bad career move.

Come to think of it, that seems to apply pretty much across the board.

A bit more complicated;
The state of Bavaria held the copyright, and refused to allow publication.
But the copyright expired 2016-01-01 so it went into the public domain:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35209185

But that last line gives one pause.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

winsor

***

Quote

I lived in Germany when National Socialism was a banned organization and Mein Kampf was illegal as a result of their track record.

Mein Kampf was never illegal in Germany.

"Publicly displaced Nazi iconography was systematically destroyed by the occupying allies at the end of the war, and today, the German criminal code prohibits the public use of a symbol of any “political party which has been declared unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court.” This includes the swastika, the Nazi salute, and several other symbols of the Third Reich. Punishments can range from fines to up to three years in prison. Mein Kampf and other Nazi propaganda works are also banned.

Slate.com JUNE 24 2015

Possession of "Mein Kampf" was not 'banned' per some sources, and its publication was recently authorized by Bavaria.

It seems to depend somewhat on who you ask, and my limited experience with German authorities indicates that, if they say something is illegal, arguing the issue is a bad career move.

Come to think of it, that seems to apply pretty much across the board.

You are still wrong.

Owning, buying or selling Main Kampf was never illegal in Germany.

The state of Bavaria owned the copyright and in an agreement with the federal government did not allow the copyright to be used by anybody.

The copyright expired after 70 years.

Quoting Slate doesn't change any of that.