So, my thread has been blocked...

[Coreeece 2]

StreetScooby

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At that time, Detroit was facing two issues - the housing crisis and the automotive bankruptcies. This resulted in many suburbanites losing their jobs and their homes. Many took early retirement, while others took advantage of unemployment insurance. They used this as an opportunity to move further north into developing rural areas an simplify their lives.

Curious, how do you know they moved north?

There's just more room the further north you go - that's where the development is. Plus, that's just how it's always been the last 30 years or so. After things went south in Detroit, the goal was to move north of 8 Mile - the suburbs. As the stench of urban sprawl became stronger in the burbs, the goal was to move north of 18 mile.

However many people also just left the state - but that has always been an issue in Michigan.

StreetScooby

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...by that violent sub-culture...

What ever verbiage ends up being developed in this thread, so that we can have the conversation America needs to have, must have the "violence component" explicit in its context. Right now, while Chris Rock can use the unspeakable-word, we can't. But, we need to have a speakable-word to actually have the conversation. It's critical, and we really need to figure this out.

If we can't have this conversation in Speaker's Corner, then we can't have this conversation anywhere in America, IMO.

I suppose "thugs" would work.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I suppose "thugs" would work.

That's a simple word that fully encompasses what we're talking about here. I can't imagine billvon banning that word. Works for even the teenage "children" that are bringing in $325K to this "tikkun olam" center.

We are all engines of karma

[wmw999 2,132]

Once "thug" becomes a code word for any black kid who dresses in anything other than chinos and a polo shirt, or maybe tight jeans and a T-shirt (I.e. Hoodies, loose pants, oversized ball caps, and fancy shoes not allowed), then it's still substituting for thinking about the person, and encouraging pre-judgment based on dress, and not behavior.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

I like the term "low life". There are no racial undertones, and it describes a lifestyle, not a mode of dress or appearance.

- Dan G

[normiss 622]

You reminded me of the NPR piece on the use of certain baited terms.
Interesting read, or listen if you prefer..

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

I like the term "low life". There are no racial undertones, and it describes a lifestyle, not a mode of dress or appearance.

I think addressing demographics play a major role in solving the problem.

White suburbanites represent the majority of suicides.

Rednecks and white trash are notorious for domestic violence, hence the term "wife-beater" given to certain styles of clothing.

30% of domestic homicide victims are black women, even though they only represent 6% of the population. Are cops to blame for those disproportionate figures as well?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Bolas 5]

Coreeece

***I like the term "low life". There are no racial undertones, and it describes a lifestyle, not a mode of dress or appearance.

I think addressing demographics play a major role in solving the problem.

White Middle class suburbanites represent the majority of suicides.

Rednecks and white trash Rural lower income and blue collar workers are notorious for domestic violence, hence the term "wife-beater" given to certain styles of clothing.

30% of domestic homicide victims are black women, even though they only represent 6% of the population. Are cops to blame for those disproportionate figures as well?

Likely that last one the majority is urban poor so race not a factor either but as percentages were included would need to see the socioeconomic numbers.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Coreeece 2]

Bolas

******I like the term "low life". There are no racial undertones, and it describes a lifestyle, not a mode of dress or appearance.

I think addressing demographics play a major role in solving the problem.

White Middle class suburbanites represent the majority of suicides.

Rednecks and white trash Rural lower income and blue collar workers are notorious for domestic violence, hence the term "wife-beater" given to certain styles of clothing.

30% of domestic homicide victims are black women, even though they only represent 6% of the population. Are cops to blame for those disproportionate figures as well?

Likely that last one the majority is urban poor so race not a factor either but as percentages were included would need to see the socioeconomic numbers.

Where did I ever say race was a factor? It is what it is. People that react like this are most likely operating on an implulsive level of psycological development wrt conflict resolution - however, their milage may vary.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Bolas 5]

Coreeece

*********I like the term "low life". There are no racial undertones, and it describes a lifestyle, not a mode of dress or appearance.

I think addressing demographics play a major role in solving the problem.

White Middle class suburbanites represent the majority of suicides.

Rednecks and white trash Rural lower income and blue collar workers are notorious for domestic violence, hence the term "wife-beater" given to certain styles of clothing.

30% of domestic homicide victims are black women, even though they only represent 6% of the population. Are cops to blame for those disproportionate figures as well?

Likely that last one the majority is urban poor so race not a factor either but as percentages were included would need to see the socioeconomic numbers.

Where did I ever say race was a factor? It is what it is. People that react like this are most likely operating on an implulsive level of psycological development wrt conflict resolution - however, their milage may vary.

When one provides only DNA-based data, it implies that the DNA is the reason. If one bases their solutions on only DNA-based data, they're not only not fully addressing the problem, they're impacting others that were not affected.

Saying something is only a gender, race, orientation, or other DNA based criteria problem is easy but also belittling to those that have that DNA criteria (as the default response is to pity and want to "help" them) but not impacted and are made to feel as they are now somehow responsible for "fixing" it. The

DNA doesn't matter. If we're going to group people, let's do it by things they can change: citizenship status, education, criminal record, income, religion, location, etc.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Coreeece 2]

Certain groups are affected differently by a variety of social issues. The demographics have to be recognized in order to effectively address the problem. Now while race may not directly predispose one to poverty, suicide or violence, there are cultural differences that allow certain behaviors and conditions to persist.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Bolas 5]

Coreeece

Certain groups are affected differently by a variety of social issues. The demographics have to be recognized in order to effectively address the problem. Now while race may not directly predispose one to poverty, suicide or violence, there are cultural differences that allow certain behaviors and conditions to persist.

Groups, demographics (Non DNA based), cultural.

Thanks for proving that one's DNA is not relevant.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

...encouraging pre-judgment based on dress, and not behavior.

Having your pants down below your ass is a behavior that communicates all one needs to know. These guys are not looking to be valedictorians, and they're proud of that.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I like the term "low life".

I really don't like any of the words we've been coming up with here. And I'm really thankful there are still thinking people in this thread. Our country needs to have a serious discussion about behavior. When a small fraction of the black population is responsible for over 50% of the crime in the country, something is wrong. And, it's not the white man's fault.

I spent some cursory time looking at the verbiage surrounding various poverty programs. One particular case is Paul Ryan's plan. Here is one website for his plan (there are several):
The War on Poverty: 50 years later

Quote

The Causes of Poverty
Family
Perhaps the single most important determinant of poverty is family structure. It has been the subject of fierce academic debate since the Moynihan Report named after its author, then assistant secretary of labor Daniel Patrick Moynihan, was released in 1965. The Moynihan Report identified the breakdown of the family as a key cause of poverty within the black community.

You cannot have any conversation with a liberal regarding the structure of black families at this time in our country.

This is a 200+ page report that I plan on reading over the next several days. I haven't seen any verbiage that directly identifies that small sub-set of problematic behaviors.

I just got back from a week of vacation, and have continued to hash over this in my mind. There are a few black people who are employed by the "cottage school" up the road, and they come into my local pub occasionally for some drinks. I'm going to buy them a round, and see if I can have a conversation with these guys. They live it. I'm sure they'll have opinions. I just need to carefully phrase my question, so I don't get the shit kicked out of me. ;-)

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,410]

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Having your pants down below your ass is a behavior that communicates all one needs to know. These guys are not looking to be valedictorians, and they're proud of that.

And in the 1960's, men having long hair "communicated" exactly the same thing to the conservatives of the time. And were mocked the same way.

Same story, different time.

[Erroll 49]

StreetScooby

I'm going to buy them a round, and see if I can have a conversation with these guys. They live it. I'm sure they'll have opinions.

As with pornography, racism is sometimes difficult to define, but I know it when I see it.

Put another way : "Some of my best friends are black".

[wmw999 2,132]

My son (white, so I guess that makes it OK) wore his pants down around his ass. He liked his t shirts long, so his underwear didn't show, but the Mohawk probably made up for it. He was the valedictorian. He was also straightedge. Look it up.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

Quote

Having your pants down below your ass is a behavior that communicates all one needs to know. These guys are not looking to be valedictorians, and they're proud of that.

And in the 1960's, men having long hair "communicated" exactly the same thing to the conservatives of the time. And were mocked the same way.

Same story, different time.

And since that was an important phase of my life, post military service, I can see the analogy expand.

The long hair hippie freak population was a small percentage of total. However, they committed well over 50% of the drug use and drug related crime. America did not improve through the existence of this minority.

The country became more liberal and we declined as a society. And, here we are now.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 622]

So you're admitting you were part of a "minority" that ruined America.
And here you are.
Interesting.

Reminds me of the 80's in the Navy. If you parted your hair down the middle, you were always selected for the random drug test.
It was not accurate in any way, much like your analogy.

[gowlerk 1,916]

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The country became more liberal and we declined as a society. And, here we are now.

America is currently at the best it has ever been. Norman Rockwell only painted the good scenes. I'll never understand your darkness. And I'm glad of that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,916]

Quote

The long hair hippie freak population was a small percentage of total. However, they committed well over 50% of the drug use and drug related crime. America did not improve through the existence of this minority.

They were mostly potheads. And as you know potheads don't have the energy to commit much crime. Most of the simply grew up and re-integrated successfully.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,916]

Quote

There are a few black people who are employed by the "cottage school" up the road, and they come into my local pub occasionally for some drinks. I'm going to buy them a round, and see if I can have a conversation with these guys. They live it. I'm sure they'll have opinions. I just need to carefully phrase my question, so I don't get the shit kicked out of me. ;-)

Don't start with the question, get to know people a little first. Like I said earlier, the whole thrust of your thread is what other people need to change in their lives. What really matters is what you can do to change your life. This sounds like a good start.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 58]

gowlerk

Quote

The long hair hippie freak population was a small percentage of total. However, they committed well over 50% of the drug use and drug related crime. America did not improve through the existence of this minority.

They were mostly potheads. And as you know potheads don't have the energy to commit much crime. Most of the simply grew up and re-integrated successfully.

Not quite, all were pot heads for sure. But, downers, coke, meth, heroin and psychedelics were rampant. At that time all drugs were illegal and all users were criminals. You could do hard time for marijuana possession in many states. The good thing about Taos NM was that most of those crimes were overlooked. That was not the case in FL.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

normiss

So you're admitting you were part of a "minority" that ruined America.
And here you are.
Interesting.

Reminds me of the 80's in the Navy. If you parted your hair down the middle, you were always selected for the random drug test.
It was not accurate in any way, much like your analogy.

That is true and I have readily admitted it on several occasions. I saw the error my ways as well as of the movement. Now it is your turn.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,635]

Times were far better before the hippy movement.

Jim Crow

Bull Connor

George Wallace

Black church bombings

Emmett Till

Meridian, MS murders

...

I can see why you long for those days.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 58]

kallend

Times were far better before the hippy movement.

Jim Crow

Bull Connor

George Wallace

Black church bombings

Emmett Till

Meridian, MS murders

...

I can see why you long for those days.

What I find humorous is that you make those kinds of statements like you actually know what you are talking about.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.