Teens shot at for playing Pokemon in Florida...

[yoink 321]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36818384

Quote

Two teenagers playing Pokemon Go late at night in their car in Florida were shot at by a householder who mistook them for burglars, police say.
The man said he shot at their car after they refused to stop when he challenged them on Saturday. They were not hurt.

They didn't stop the car when some random member of the public told them to, so he deliberately shot at them?? WHAT THE FUCK?
I wouldn't have stopped the car either. Probably neither would any of you...


But this bit. This bit is my favorite:

Quote

Police in Florida have used the incident as an opportunity to issue guidelines for teenagers and parents on safely playing the game.

That's right. That's the lesson from this near incident... Careful how you play a videogame, folks! But that guy who was SHOOTING AT PEOPLE? Nah. No guidelines needed. He's a responsible gun owner after all.

There isn't any mention of a single recrimination for this tool.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bet cha they won't do that again.

They probably should have respected the guys property, eh?

Or are they above the law?

Why aren't you showing your feelings at the fact that they were breaking the law and trespassing? Where s your outrage for their crime?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[yoink 321]

turtlespeed

Bet cha they won't do that again.

They probably should have respected the guys property, eh?

Or are they above the law?

Why aren't you showing your feelings at the fact that they were breaking the law and trespassing? Where s your outrage for their crime?

Seriously?
Is it possible for you to EVER think someone with a gun is in the wrong?


Read the report again. There is zero evidence that they were trespassing. They were sitting in THEIR car so I think it's unlikely they were parked on this guy's driveway...

And even if they were you cannot seriously think that an appropriate response to the crime of trespass would be execution?

I'd be more for gun ownership if people who were pro gun rights actually took responsibility for policing their own. If people like you, or the NRA didn't always stand up for gun rights no matter WHAT the situation it might prove that you could see there can be problems with gun ownership.
As it is, you're a fanatic. There's no point discussing anything with you because it's fundamentally impossible for you to even consider any sort of compromise.

This guy tried to shoot at 2 kids because they didn't stop the car when he told them to. Are you seriously telling me that if someone shouts at you to stop your car late at night you'd do it? I call bullshit.
And so when you don't you'd be OK with them shooting at you? I call bullshit on that too.

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

Bet cha they won't do that again.

Do what? Apparently all they were guilty of was trying to drive away from some nutter with a gun.

turtlespeed

They probably should have respected the guys property, eh?

How did they disrespect his property?

turtlespeed

Why aren't you showing your feelings at the fact that they were breaking the law and trespassing?Where s your outrage for their crime?

What crime? Even if they were trespassing, shooting someone as they are running away will most likely land you in jail for a very long time.

The blame here lands on the shooter and irresponsible parents that let their 16 year old girl hang out with some 19 year-old man at 1:30 in the morning.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[quade 3]

turtlespeed

They probably should have respected the guys property, eh?

Where they on his property?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,280]

Quote

Why aren't you showing your feelings at the fact that they were breaking the law and trespassing?

Because they didn't

So what are your feelings about the guy breaking the law and assaulting them with a deadly weapon?

Where is your outrage for his crime?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

yoink

***Bet cha they won't do that again.

They probably should have respected the guys property, eh?

Or are they above the law?

Why aren't you showing your feelings at the fact that they were breaking the law and trespassing? Where s your outrage for their crime?

Seriously?
Is it possible for you to EVER think someone with a gun is in the wrong?


Read the report again. There is zero evidence that they were trespassing. They were sitting in THEIR car so I think it's unlikely they were parked on this guy's driveway...

And even if they were you cannot seriously think that an appropriate response to the crime of trespass would be execution?

I'd be more for gun ownership if people who were pro gun rights actually took responsibility for policing their own. If people like you, or the NRA didn't always stand up for gun rights no matter WHAT the situation it might prove that you could see there can be problems with gun ownership.
As it is, you're a fanatic. There's no point discussing anything with you because it's fundamentally impossible for you to even consider any sort of compromise.

This guy tried to shoot at 2 kids because they didn't stop the car when he told them to. Are you seriously telling me that if someone shouts at you to stop your car late at night you'd do it? I call bullshit.
And so when you don't you'd be OK with them shooting at you? I call bullshit on that too.

Where does it say it was an attempted execution?
The kids, when confronted tried to run him down.

He did not fire at the humans he fired at the tires.

He was under the impression that he home was just burgled.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

turtlespeed

The kids, when confronted tried to run him down.

The article I read said when the teens were confronted they simply left and it was at THAT point the man shot at them. Where did you read the teens attempted to run the man over and therefore would be justified in shooting them?

From the article linked in this thread:

Quote

The man said he shot at their car after they refused to stop when he challenged them on Saturday. They were not hurt.

It would be highly questionable for a police officer to shoot at a person who was simply leaving a challenge. For a citizen to do it, is unconscionable.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,280]

Quote

The kids, when confronted tried to run him down.

No. The kids, when confronted, escaped by driving away - even though they would have been well within their legal and moral rights to run him over in self defence.

The guy with the gun attempted to murder them while they were fleeing from him, hence the bullet hole in the back of the car.

Quote

He did not fire at the humans he fired at the tires.

He fired at the car. At least one of the bullets happened to hit the tyre, the rest of them could have gone anywhere.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

The kids, when confronted tried to run him down.

If I was minding my own business and some crazy asshole pointed a gun at me, I'd try to get away as well - too bad if he's standing in front of my car, that's his fault.

turtlespeed

He was under the impression that he home was just burgled.

Like I said earlier, a nutter with a gun - it was all in his head.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 644]

I'm quite surprised the homeowner hasn't been charged with a number of crimes.
This ain't Texas, but it sure as hell is FloriDUH sometimes.

[jakee 1,280]

normiss

I'm quite surprised the homeowner hasn't been charged with a number of crimes.

I'm fucking flabbergasted.

SYG would definitely have applied to the kids if they'd run him over. Does it apply to him trying to shoot them in the back while they're running away, having committed no crime?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ryoder 1,412]

From the local news there: http://www.news4jax.com/news/pokemon-go-hunters-shot-at-while-searching-for-pokemon

"The man then stepped in front of the car, pointed his gun at the teenagers and told them not to move. The man claims the vehicle sped toward him and he started shooting at the vehicle."

Sounds like the car was in the street.

Waving a gun around to intimidate someone: One count of brandishing.
Pointing the gun at people in a car: Two counts of assault with a deadly weapon.
Shooting at people in a car: Two counts of attempted murder.
Shooting in a residential neighborhood: Reckless endangerment of all his neighbors.

Map of the neighborhood: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Primrose+Ln,+Palm+Coast,+FL+32164/@29.5279633,-81.2062141,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88e6951d9495f48f:0x380b05b85ce15ff5!8m2!3d29.5280661!4d-81.2061711

Anyone stepping in front of my car waving a gun in the middle of the night (0130) should expect to get run over.


ETA From the Flagler County Sheriff's Office: https://www.facebook.com/notes/flagler-county-sheriffs-office/pok%C3%A9mon-go-hunters-shot-at-this-morning-in-palm-coast/629038090604393

"After arriving at the incident location, deputies interviewed the homeowner and learned that he was awakened by a loud noise coming from outside of his home. He got up from bed and looked outside and noticed a small white car with its brake lights on in the roadway in front of his home. He armed himself with a handgun and went outside to investigate and as he approached the vehicle, he heard someone say something like “did you get anything.” He told deputies that he then stepped in front of the vehicle and ordered the vehicle not to move. The homeowner stated the vehicle accelerated toward him causing him to flee the roadway. Because he believed the vehicle was attempting to strike him, he discharged his handgun several times at the vehicle. The vehicle sped away and was not located after a search of the area was conducted."

So the car (and the idiot with the gun) were definitely in the street.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[yoink 321]

turtlespeed

He was under the impression that he home was just burgled.

His paranoia has nothing to do with it.


This asshole demands 2 innocent members of the public does what he wants and threatens them with a gun, then shoots at them when they refuse.

There aren't 2 sides to this one. Just a right side and an asshole with a gun.


Assuming it's possible to bring charges against this guy, who would do it? Would the police do it on their own or would the parents have to press charges. You can be damn sure I would.

[ryoder 1,412]

yoink

Assuming it's possible to bring charges against this guy, who would do it? Would the police do it on their own or would the parents have to press charges. You can be damn sure I would.

I would expect the prosecutor will study the police report and make the decision.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wolfriverjoe 1,371]

normiss

I'm quite surprised the homeowner hasn't been charged with a number of crimes.
This ain't Texas, but it sure as hell is FloriDUH sometimes.

I would hope he is charged with a number of crimes. I wouldn't, however be too surprised if he isn't convicted. Texas may have the reputation of the place where self-defense is broadly applied, but Florida is the the place where it actually happens. The Martin/Zimmerman incident is the most famous, but there have been several cases where people have started a fight, and when they began to lose that fight, used deadly force to keep from losing. And then successfully claimed "self defense."

This isn't "Castle Doctrine" (no requirement for retreat in your own home, forcible entry into an occupied dwelling constitutes "intent" on the part of the assailant) or "Stand Your Ground" (no requirement to retreat from a place you have a legal right to be). This is an "idiot with a gun" confronting someone in a public street.

Ryoder's list of potential charges:

ryoder

Waving a gun around to intimidate someone: One count of brandishing.
Pointing the gun at people in a car: Two counts of assault with a deadly weapon.
Shooting at people in a car: Two counts of attempted murder.
Shooting in a residential neighborhood: Reckless endangerment of all his neighbors.

is a pretty good summation.

He went out and confronted them. He ordered them to "stop". He shot at them. Ordinary citizens have no power to detain people in public. That's reserved for the cops. He could potentially face some sort of kidnapping or false imprisonment charges.

"Standard" self defense requires what's commonly known as an "Unwilling participant", that is a situation that the person claiming self defense didn't willingly enter into. It also requires that it be "unavoidable", that meaning that there was no way to have avoided the confrontation in the first place. Most places also require "retreat was not an option", which is exactly what it says it it. Both Castle and SYG remove this as a requirement (but not the other two). At least they do in normal places.

As I said above, however, Florida is different.

ryoder

***
Assuming it's possible to bring charges against this guy, who would do it? Would the police do it on their own or would the parents have to press charges. You can be damn sure I would.

I would expect the prosecutor will study the police report and make the decision.

That's the usual procedure. Remember in the TM/GZ shooting case, the local prosecutor decided against pressing charges. It wasn't until the outcry and protests that they took another look at it and decided charges were warranted.
It may take a bit of time.

I'm pretty strongly pro-gun rights and pro-self defense. But this is, as Yoink called it, an "asshole with a gun."

He assumed a whole bunch of things, grabbed his gun and tried to "play cop". I think it would have been "poetic justice" if he had been run over.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[councilman24 36]

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Teens shot at for playing Pokemon in Florida...

No, they were shot at for having their heads so far up some pokeman's ass that they didn't see someone in front of the car, drove at them and then didn't realize they were getting shot at during an assault with a motor vehicle!

Whether the shooting was justified or not is up for grabs. NO news report has enough information. Yes the guy should have stayed inside. But he is not REQUIRED to.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[normiss 644]

You cannot legally use deadly force to protect property in Florida, only lives.
The charges should be easily prosecuted IMO.
More so when you stack a pile of charges, more negotiating room that way.

[wolfriverjoe 1,371]

normiss

You cannot legally use deadly force to protect property in Florida, only lives.
The charges should be easily prosecuted IMO.
More so when you stack a pile of charges, more negotiating room that way.

He is arguing that he was using the force for self defense because they were driving at him, presenting a threat to him.

The fact that he put himself into that position should negate the self defense claim.

But, then again, GZ put himself into the position he ended up in. And successfully claimed self defense.

I have to wonder what the outcome would be if the occupants in the car were killed and weren't able to present their side of the story, just as I wonder what would have happened if TM survived and was able to present his side of the story.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Whether the shooting was justified or not is up for grabs.

So, are you are saying that if I am minding my own business in a public area and I am approached by an unknown person brandishing a gun I should feel compelled to obey them as if they had the same legal authority as a police officer?



Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[councilman24 36]

If he's got a gun it might be a good idea.

But no, I'm saying don't play some stupid game when your behind the wheel of a car, and don't ignore the road in front of you to the point you aim your car at someone and don't even know they were there and ended up shooting at you.

Everyone involved was a dumb ass. But the shooting might actually have been legal. WE DON'T KNOW.

We do know that driving and playing a game isn't in many/most states.

I'm done.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[normiss 644]

I would advise quite differently.

I'd duck under the dash and floor it, but that's me.

[wolfriverjoe 1,371]

councilman24

If he's got a gun it might be a good idea.

But no, I'm saying don't play some stupid game when your behind the wheel of a car, and don't ignore the road in front of you to the point you aim your car at someone and don't even know they were there and ended up shooting at you.

Everyone involved was a dumb ass. But the shooting might actually have been legal. WE DON'T KNOW.

We do know that driving and playing a game isn't in many/most states.

I'm done.

The car was stopped. He had time to look outside, grab a gun and get out there. They "accelerated towards him" after he pointed the gun at the car and told them to stop.

He had no authority to do that.

They didn't present a threat to him when he saw them. They were simply stopped in the road in front of his house.
They didn't present a threat to him while he grabbed his gun and went out to confront them.

They did present a threat to him when they drove towards him. But he pointed a gun at them first.

ANYWHERE but Florida, this would be a clear cut case. Self defense would be tossed out immediately.
But Florida is different.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,280]

councilman24

Quote

Teens shot at for playing Pokemon in Florida...

No, they were shot at for having their heads so far up some pokeman's ass that they didn't see someone in front of the car, drove at them and then didn't realize they were getting shot at during an assault with a motor vehicle!

None of that is true. Literally not a word of it.

I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about

Quote

Whether the shooting was justified or not is up for grabs. NO news report has enough information.

It's not up for grabs because it is so clearly obvious that it was not justified. The gun guy's own statement proves it was not justified.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,280]

councilman24

But no, I'm saying don't play some stupid game when your behind the wheel of a car, and don't ignore the road in front of you to the point you aim your car at someone and don't even know they were there and ended up shooting at you.

And just what the fuck does any of that have to do with what actually happened?

Quote

I'm done.

I hope not. I hope you come back and retract your argument after reading the story properly.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?