I thought that Kansas was non-restrictive...

[turtlespeed 212]

rushmc

***Your interpretations of the 2nd are inaccurate at best.
You really could help us out here with a Rushtranslator.

and the great debater strikes again

Let me ask you this.
Should your employer have the right to tell you to remove a bumper sticker from your car is parked in said companies lot?

And the only reason I would need any kind of translator would be to try and understand some of the liberal loons out there.....

Should they be allowed to prohibit you from having a child's protective car seat in your car on their property?

Should they be able to prohibit you from having an extra cell phone in your car?

What about an old jelly roll?

Can they prohibit dust?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

***Your interpretations of the 2nd are inaccurate at best.
You really could help us out here with a Rushtranslator.

and the great debater strikes again

Let me ask you this.
Should your employer have the right to tell you to remove a bumper sticker from your car is parked in said companies lot?

And the only reason I would need any kind of translator would be to try and understand some of the liberal loons out there.....

Depends on the parking lot:

1 - Private lot, owned by the company, yes, they can tell you not have a firearm in it. I'm at a loss, though as to how they could enforce it in any way (I can tell you my rules, but I don't think I can search your car on a whim). However, I think there is a very reasonable argument, though, that whatever is inside that car is none of their business - particularly since the intent is to keep the firearm from entering their buildings. it's weird, because it's a little traveling cell of private property going into and out of another's area of private property......So, do I treat a car similar as I would my house?, or similar to how I'd treat a briefcase.....

I'd default to respecting the private property owner's right. If you want to keep your gun in the car, go park in a public lot or on the street.

2 - Public lot - absolutely no, they can't tell a citizen what to have in his vehicle.


Bumper sticker (on private property)? I'd say yes. Go park elsewhere or pull that sticker. Just like if your sticker offends me, I could kick you off my driveway but I couldn't kick you off of parking on the street next to the driveway.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

rehmwa

******Your interpretations of the 2nd are inaccurate at best.
You really could help us out here with a Rushtranslator.

and the great debater strikes again

Let me ask you this.
Should your employer have the right to tell you to remove a bumper sticker from your car is parked in said companies lot?

And the only reason I would need any kind of translator would be to try and understand some of the liberal loons out there.....

Depends on the parking lot:

1 - Private lot, owned by the company, yes, they can tell you not have a firearm in it. I'm at a loss, though as to how they could enforce it in any way. However, I think there is a very reasonable argument, though, that whatever is inside that car is none of their business - particularly since the intent is to keep the firearm from entering their buildings. it's weird, because it's a little traveling cell of private property going into and out of another's area of private property......So, do I treat a car similar as I would my house?, or similar to how I'd treat a briefcase.....

I'd default to respecting the private property owner's right. If you want to keep your gun in the car, go park in a public lot or on the street.

2 - Public lot - absolutely no, they can't tell a citizen what to have in his vehicle.

First off , I asked you about a bumper sticker

Second off, you are wrong in Iowa anyway
If you have permit to carry the employer can do nothing about a weapon in your car

Now, about the bumper sticker?

And I at two locations where parking off property is almost impossible

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Perfect example of the need for the Rushtranslator©, it's impossible to understand how a bumper sticker is protected under the second, so again, your interpretation of the second is unintelligible.
Sorry you're having loony issues. Not my area.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

Perfect example of the need for the Rushtranslator©, it's impossible to understand how a bumper sticker is protected under the second, so again, your interpretation of the second is unintelligible.
Sorry you're having look issues. Not my area.

Narrowing your thought process to only one right?

Freedom of speech? Expression?

What if they told you to take off your Hillary 2016 bumper sticker?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

The thread is about guns, not stickers.

Fail as usual.

After further consideration, no way the Rushtranslator© could keep up with the Rushmovinggoalpostmachine©.
Damn. So close.

[turtlespeed 212]

normiss

The thread is about guns, not stickers.

Fail as usual.

After further consideration, no way the Rushtranslator© could keep up with the Rushmovinggoalpostmachine©.
Damn. So close.

The conversation turned to include other thoughts -

So I ask again -and, before you can say that this tread isn't about car seats - I don't accept that non answer.

Quote

Should they be allowed to prohibit you from having a child's protective car seat in your car on their property?

Should they be able to prohibit you from having an extra cell phone in your car?

What about an old jelly roll?

Can they prohibit dust?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

He will just keep running......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

First off , I asked you about a bumper sticker

Second off, you are wrong in Iowa anyway
If you have permit to carry the employer can do nothing about a weapon in your car if this is a private company property I find this to be despicable even though I sympathize with the intent

Now, about the bumper sticker?

And I at two locations where parking off property is almost impossible

actually - I edited it almost immediately to add a bit on the bumper sticker.

for the rest - I'm talking what I consider right or wrong under my personal philosophy (individual determination is king, and that includes respect for another's decision concerning their private property). whatever the codes are in Iowa....It's not my concern or fed my answer. If they conflict, then I consider those codes to be morally wrong and an imposition on true liberties. You can't tell me I'm 'wrong' when I'm relaying my opinion. And if you don't like the parking situation or the rules of your company, you can change jobs of course. or lobby to get them to change their rules. or just ignore it and don't get caught.


reprint here - Bumper sticker (on private property)? I'd say yes. Go park elsewhere or pull that sticker. Just like if your sticker offends me, I could kick you off my driveway but I couldn't kick you off of parking on the street next to the driveway.


make a decision Rush - either you think the government should respect the owner's right to make decisions about his private property or you don't

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

rehmwa

***Now, about the bumper sticker?

actually - I edited it almost immediately to add a bit on the bumper sticker.

for the rest - I'm talking what I consider right or wrong under my personal philosophy (individual determination is king, and that includes respect for another's decision concerning their private property). whatever the codes are in Iowa....It's not my concern or fed my answer. If they conflict, then I consider those codes to be morally wrong and an imposition on true liberties. You can't tell me I'm 'wrong' when I'm relaying my opinion. And if you don't like the parking situation or the rules of your company, you can change jobs of course. or lobby to get them to change their rules. or just ignore it and don't get caught.

I am talking right or wrong too

So

It is ok with you that an employer would force an employee to remove a bumper sticker since the employee vehicle is packed in the employers lot?

I do not expect you to answer this anymore because you cant and stay consistent with your views on two different rights.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

******Now, about the bumper sticker?

actually - I edited it almost immediately to add a bit on the bumper sticker.

for the rest - I'm talking what I consider right or wrong under my personal philosophy (individual determination is king, and that includes respect for another's decision concerning their private property). whatever the codes are in Iowa....It's not my concern or fed my answer. If they conflict, then I consider those codes to be morally wrong and an imposition on true liberties. You can't tell me I'm 'wrong' when I'm relaying my opinion. And if you don't like the parking situation or the rules of your company, you can change jobs of course. or lobby to get them to change their rules. or just ignore it and don't get caught.

I am talking right or wrong too

So

It is ok with you that an employer would force an employee to remove a bumper sticker since the employee vehicle is packed in the employers lot?

I do not expect you to answer this anymore because you cant and stay consistent with your views on two different rights.


answered - look up at the previous two posts of mine - he can't force you to remove it. but he can make you choose to park elsewhere if you don't. His property, his rules.


hey - have a good weekend, I'll be offline hopefully for several days

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

rehmwa

1 - Private lot, owned by the company, yes, they can tell you not have a firearm in it. I'm at a loss, though as to how they could enforce it in any way (I can tell you my rules, but I don't think I can search your car on a whim). However, I think there is a very reasonable argument, though, that whatever is inside that car is none of their business - particularly since the intent is to keep the firearm from entering their buildings. it's weird, because it's a little traveling cell of private property going into and out of another's area of private property.....

The idea of a "travelling cell of private property" is actually pretty good. That's how it is considered in Wisconsin. No property owner can ban anything (legally posessed), as long as it's left in a locked car. That was one of the "prerequisite" laws the concealed carry crowd had implemented to make CCW work.

And, as far as the shooting in the OP goes, it was a factory. Virtually every manufacturing facility, warehouse, industrial place of any sort that I go to (and I drive truck so I got to a lot) is "Posted Prohibited". They are "gun free" zones. For safety and to protect the employees of course.
So any of the people working there that could have potentially been armed had been disarmed by the boss.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rehmwa 2]

wolfriverjoe

***
1 - Private lot, owned by the company, yes, they can tell you not have a firearm in it. I'm at a loss, though as to how they could enforce it in any way (I can tell you my rules, but I don't think I can search your car on a whim). However, I think there is a very reasonable argument, though, that whatever is inside that car is none of their business - particularly since the intent is to keep the firearm from entering their buildings. it's weird, because it's a little traveling cell of private property going into and out of another's area of private property.....

The idea of a "travelling cell of private property" is actually pretty good. That's how it is considered in Wisconsin. No property owner can ban anything (legally posessed), as long as it's left in a locked car. That was one of the "prerequisite" laws the concealed carry crowd had implemented to make CCW work.

I find it ok, only because it's silly to think a property owner can enforce it on any locked car. (So in application, it's a moot point)
In philosophy, I still think people should be king of their castles.

My house (my biz), my rules. I can't force you to change something, but I can tell you to do it elsewhere.

(edit: I think "no Gun zones" in general are really stupid. Though I'd have to support a property owner's decision to have it in place and would respect it on their property. I'd still think he's making a stupid choice.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

rehmwa

******
1 - Private lot, owned by the company, yes, they can tell you not have a firearm in it. I'm at a loss, though as to how they could enforce it in any way (I can tell you my rules, but I don't think I can search your car on a whim). However, I think there is a very reasonable argument, though, that whatever is inside that car is none of their business - particularly since the intent is to keep the firearm from entering their buildings. it's weird, because it's a little traveling cell of private property going into and out of another's area of private property.....

The idea of a "travelling cell of private property" is actually pretty good. That's how it is considered in Wisconsin. No property owner can ban anything (legally posessed), as long as it's left in a locked car. That was one of the "prerequisite" laws the concealed carry crowd had implemented to make CCW work.

I find it ok, only because it's silly to think a property owner can enforce it on any locked car. (So in application, it's a moot point)
In philosophy, I still think people should be king of their castles.

My house (my biz), my rules. I can't force you to change something, but I can tell you to do it elsewhere.

(edit: I think "no Gun zones" in general are really stupid. Though I'd have to support a property owner's decision to have it in place and would respect it on their property. I'd still think he's making a stupid choice.)

In Texas, it falls under the Castle Doctrine. My car is a mobile extension of my home, and thus enjoys a lot of the same restrictions for search and seizure.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

In Texas, it falls under the Castle Doctrine. My car is a mobile extension of my home, and thus enjoys a lot of the same restrictions for search and seizure.

Sure, I can see it, it's a tricky one - even more definitive would be a personal trailer parked on a privately owned trailer park.

However (to stay consistent) - Instead of a law, I'd rather have a written and signed and enforceable contract between the parties on the subject. Rather than count on the whims of lawmakers.

So for a gun in a parking lot at my employers? I'd trust a contract with them a lot more than this week's law trying to override that contract......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 622]

Most major corporations have addressed this.
We have new signs at every door.

I'm consistently harassed about how I was able to get my "fire arm" in the facility.

[piisfish 135]

If I ran a business and didn't want guns inside, I surely wouldn't want guns in cars on my parking lot. But I would have a safe where gun carriers could deposit their guns during work time.

To me a gun in a car is a big no-no. Cars get broken in too easily. Guns must not be stolen.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[BartsDaddy 4]

Hell I have guns sent to me at work. Nobody says a thing about it, Except wanting to see them.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Airgump 1]

been in the telecom racket and off and on in the oil patch for over 30 years. try packing heat on their property. getting into a telephone central office these days alone takes an act of God.

in the "new improved" oil patch, you can get kicked off location and black balled for a small pocket knife even if it's tucked away in you car's glove box.

thanks liberals and wacked out insurance companies!

did some work in southern AZ and spent the night in tombstone. hit the steak house/saloon for supper and everybody but me in there had a shooter on their hip. definitely knew there weren't going to be anybody robbing that place.

a lot of my friends pack and have concealed permits. one in his 60's has done a toy run for 15-20 years for foster kids placed by our state, said kids need to get something for christmas and he made sure they did. he's kinda like my snake eater buddies, low key, low profile and they don't seem to stand out in a crowd.

given the choice, i'd rather have my friends and neighbors armed then the hoodlums have them.

[rushmc 18]

Airgump

been in the telecom racket and off and on in the oil patch for over 30 years. try packing heat on their property. getting into a telephone central office these days alone takes an act of God.

in the "new improved" oil patch, you can get kicked off location and black balled for a small pocket knife even if it's tucked away in you car's glove box.

thanks liberals and wacked out insurance companies!

did some work in southern AZ and spent the night in tombstone. hit the steak house/saloon for supper and everybody but me in there had a shooter on their hip. definitely knew there weren't going to be anybody robbing that place.

a lot of my friends pack and have concealed permits. one in his 60's has done a toy run for 15-20 years for foster kids placed by our state, said kids need to get something for christmas and he made sure they did. he's kinda like my snake eater buddies, low key, low profile and they don't seem to stand out in a crowd.

given the choice, i'd rather have my friends and neighbors armed then the hoodlums have them.

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Croc 0]

wolfriverjoe

The idea of a "travelling cell of private property" is actually pretty good. That's how it is considered in Wisconsin. No property owner can ban anything (legally posessed), as long as it's left in a locked car. That was one of the "prerequisite" laws the concealed carry crowd had implemented to make CCW work.

I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court has taken this view.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[billvon 2,406]

>Should your employer have the right to tell you to remove a bumper sticker
>from your car is parked in said companies lot?

Nope. But they do have a right to tell you that you can't park your car in their parking lot if they don't like the bumper sticker on it. Heck, they can even do that if they don't like the car, period. (GM, Ford etc do this.)

[rehmwa 2]

piisfish

If I ran a business and didn't want guns inside, I surely wouldn't want guns in cars on my parking lot. But I would have a safe where gun carriers could deposit their guns during work time.

I find that to be forward thinking and accepting without being intrusive or out of control.

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Croc 0]

Another analogous situation: you are driving past a middle school on the way to work. You are smoking. But the school is a "tobacco free zone" that includes the street you are driving on. Are you commiting a crime?

Another: you are driving past the same middle school. You have a loaded gun in your belt. You have a gun permit. But the school is in a "gun free zone" that includes the street as well. Are you committing a crime?

Another: you are driving past the same middle school. You are listening to talk radio. You respond to a listener's comments by shouting a racial epithet. But the school is in a "racial epithet free zone," and you are in it. Have you commited a crime?

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[billvon 2,406]

Quote

Another analogous situation: you are driving past a middle school on the way to work. You are smoking. But the school is a "tobacco free zone" that includes the street you are driving on. Are you commiting a crime?

Another: you are driving past the same middle school. You have a loaded gun in your belt. You have a gun permit. But the school is in a "gun free zone" that includes the street as well. Are you committing a crime?

Another: you are driving past the same middle school. You are listening to talk radio. You respond to a listener's comments by shouting a racial epithet. But the school is in a "racial epithet free zone," and you are in it. Have you commited a crime?

In all cases the answer is no; you are on public property.

However:

You are driving your car, and you drive into your neighbor's back yard. (We'll assume you're not driving across the grass here; let's say he has an old access road back there from when the house was built.) You are smoking. Your neighbor comes out and says "get you, your car and your freaking cigarette out of my yard!" You refuse, and sit there and smoke. He calls the police.

Do the police have the right to remove you?