Well, what do you know?

[RopeaDope 0]

It's interesting, what with some of your posting history that I've observed, that you put so much stock in what the media says.

Journalist go to Iraq, a platoon is tasked to drive them around and show them stuff. Since we are told by our superiors what to show them, they see what the brass wants them to see. Then a public affairs officer checks all footage, photos, tape recordings, and notes to ensure their is no "sensitive" information contained therein.

Then they go and read a report from a study that the US government conducted, turned in to the state department or whomever for editing, and then released to the public.

I don't care if you think I'm brainwashed with propaganda, or if I'm making it up to impress people. I stood there on the ground and looked at it, I pulled guard on it, I sat in over watch positions to ambush people trying to gain possession of it, I've been tasked with security escort for EOD and task force rocketeer to dispose of it.

Makes no difference to me what people believe about Iraq, know about Iraq, or think about the war. I have my own opinions about the war, but I didn't have a say in it. All I could do was survive, keep my guys alive, make sure our morals and humanity remained in tact, and complete the little missions I was given in my small little part of the big war.

I joined in 99'. We were doing peace keeping in Bosnia and Kosovo. I thought it would be an adventure and pay for college. Irregardless of my thoughts on the war, it felt good to see thousands of kids get their first text books for school, or to see women at the Baghdad University for Women going to school and not being tortured or raped on a regular basis. I really enjoy our Med-Cap missions where we took a PA to a local medical clinic with a butt load of supplies and meds and people came from all over to get free treatment, diagnosis, medications.

On the flip side, it enraged me when an IED blew up one of my hmmwvs, or when civilians were slaughtered by AQI or JAM. It also enraged me to be put into positions where my morals sometimes had to take a back seat to my survival.

[78RATS 0]

Thank you very much for your service.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[RopeaDope 0]

78RATS

Thank you very much for your service.

Thank you for that, but selfishly, I did it for adventure, a paycheck, and that GI Bill.

I'm not trying to paint myself up as anything special. I just ended up over there, and it wasn't all blood and guts gun fights. I don't know if the war was the right or wrong thing to do.

Given the number of people killed in the Iran-Iraq war (over 1 million Iraqis), the number of Kurds killed, the people killed in his invasion of Kuwait (the literally killed every male and child, and raped every woman they came across), I think something needed to be done. I just think our postwar plan was fucked, like Tony Blair said.

[ibx 2]

Quote

It's interesting, what with some of your posting history that I've observed, that you put so much stock in what the media says.

Journalist go to Iraq, a platoon is tasked to drive them around and show them stuff. Since we are told by our superiors what to show them, they see what the brass wants them to see. Then a public affairs officer checks all footage, photos, tape recordings, and notes to ensure their is no "sensitive" information contained therein.

So what you are saying is, the US Government lied to it's people and the world. Started a war because of supposed WMD. The whole world thinks there are none because apparently nobody found jack shit, the US government has an absolute low in foreign relations and is the laughing stock of the world.

Yet here you are, a lowly soldier, telling us that for some strange uncomprehendable reason the US did find lots of WMD's and decided to keep it quiet. All the while knowing that showing the world these weapons would have legitimized the war!?!

Yeah, that makes sense.

[RopeaDope 0]

ibx

Quote

It's interesting, what with some of your posting history that I've observed, that you put so much stock in what the media says.

Journalist go to Iraq, a platoon is tasked to drive them around and show them stuff. Since we are told by our superiors what to show them, they see what the brass wants them to see. Then a public affairs officer checks all footage, photos, tape recordings, and notes to ensure their is no "sensitive" information contained therein.

So what you are saying is, the US Government lied to it's people and the world. Started a war because of supposed WMD. The whole world thinks there are none because apparently nobody found jack shit, the US government has an absolute low in foreign relations and is the laughing stock of the world.

Yet here you are, a lowly soldier, telling us that for some strange uncomprehendable reason the US did find lots of WMD's and decided to keep it quiet. All the while knowing that showing the world these weapons would have legitimized the war!?!

Yeah, that makes sense.

No turbo, not WMDs, that was false intelligence. There were chemical and biological weapons there. Don't try to church it up into anything more than that.

I'm simply saying that in regards to the comments about finding jack shit, Jack wasn't there, but there was in fact some scattered shit. It's all a matter of how you want to spin the wording.

Google the shit. I don't know what info is out there. I don't care. What I've said isn't a secret. I was never told to "not talk about it". It just never really mattered to me. I was there and that was that.

America. Women want to be with us and men want to be us. Sorry you were born in the wrong country.

[normiss 622]

Military koolaide is strong!

[christelsabine 1]

RopeaDope

....
America. Women want to be with us and men want to be us. Sorry you were born in the wrong country.

Bwahahaha, good one - John Wayne in one of his first color movies?

BTW: No longer a scout, rope a dope?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[RopeaDope 0]

christelsabine

***
....
America. Women want to be with us and men want to be us. Sorry you were born in the wrong country.

Bwahahaha, good one - John Wayne in one of his first color movies?

BTW: No longer a scout, rope a dope?

Actually I'm not up to speed on John Wayne movies. I was quoting "End of Watch".

Normiss- the koolaid is strong, strong as a mofo, but I'm not trying to defend the war or Bush's choices. I was agreeing with Blair, no more no less.

Whatever the reason for the war, whatever the outcome, I had no say in it. "I'm just a wheel man, man".

I just tried to explain what I saw. I'm not making a case for it. Believe me that I saw what I say I saw, or believe I'm telling fascinating war stories
IBX- your beef or anyone else's with American elite politicians has nothing to do with Americans. We are a hodge podge mix breed of every other country out there, so we are you. European, I'm a pean, we're all a pean.

It's not like our standing in the world is some new precedent. We are just in the spotlight right now. 2 generations ago, it was Germany and Japan. Last time it was Russia, the Iran and North Korea. Every country has had to pretend to love one bastard father or another at some point in history.

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

RopeaDope

No turbo, not WMDs, that was false intelligence. There were chemical and biological weapons there. Don't try to church it up into anything more than that...

Really? No WMD, just chem & bio.

Really?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[RopeaDope 0]

wolfriverjoe

***



No turbo, not WMDs, that was false intelligence. There were chemical and biological weapons there. Don't try to church it up into anything more than that...

Really? No WMD, just chem & bio.

Really?

Mass destruction wipes large cities off the face of the earth in the blink of an eye and makes the land uninhabitable for generations, and millions more die from radio active fallout.

Chem and bio kills off a small neighborhood and then the damage is done.

Soldiers have anthrax vaccinations and carry MOPP gear and atropine injectors that render chem and bio attacks ineffective on them (civilians still suffer) but nothing is going to save you from a nuke.

The instructions for a nuke are lay down flat on the ground, head toward the flash, don't look at the flash, cover your head with your hands, after the shock wave get under cover of some type to avoid fallout

[normiss 622]

I thought some PITA in Texas at first...I've been thinking this way the past couple of days.

[Darius11 12]

I just wanted to say Thank you for your honesty.


i am so sick of people on here who see things as black or white because the truth is too complicated.

I just respect that you did what you did and didn't have to turn it in too a Clint Eastwood movie in your head or when you bring it up.

My experience most people who have experienced war by that i mean bullets being shot at you actual combat tend to see things in the right shades of gray and not so cut and dry.

We need more of that in SC more people who are honest about there experience and not committed to a side.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[RopeaDope 0]

Darius11

I just wanted to say Thank you for your honesty.


i am so sick of people on here who see things as black or white because the truth is too complicated.

I just respect that you did what you did and didn't have to turn it in too a Clint Eastwood movie in your head or when you bring it up.

My experience most people who have experienced war by that i mean bullets being shot at you actual combat tend to see things in the right shades of gray and not so cut and dry.

We need more of that in SC more people who are honest about there experience and not committed to a side.

Well for honesty sake, I must confess, I did walk around with an unlit cigar in my mouth squinting at everyone calling them Punk. But only to establish my credentials as an authority figure. I never abused ant of Clints lines for personal gain.

[christelsabine 1]

normiss

I thought some PITA in Texas at first...I've been thinking this way the past couple of days.

Me too, not absolutely sure.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[normiss 622]

No doubt a sock puppet, just which one at this point.

[RopeaDope 0]

Who's a sock puppet? Me?

I'm really not trying to be anyone's poster child, so sorry if I came off that way. Just sharing my perspective

Larry does not endorse, finance, or lend the Larry name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, or prestige divert Larry from his primary purpose.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

Military koolaide is strong!

Clearly another example of it being impossible for YOU to speak with someone

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,632]

RopeaDope

No turbo, not WMDs, that was false intelligence.

You ARE aware that the CIA warned Bush that the intelligence was unreliable, but he went ahead and sold it to the Congress and the American people anyway?

Right?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,123]

Well, I probably know ol' Texas, and Ropeadope ain't him. Among other things, he's way too old to have been in Iraq fighting, and frankly way too honest to lie and say he was.

As long as the contributions are largely constructive, I'm not sure I care. I'm just happy the sentences are coherent, complete, and grammatical.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RopeaDope 0]

kallend

***
No turbo, not WMDs, that was false intelligence.

You ARE aware that the CIA warned Bush that the intelligence was unreliable, but he went ahead and sold it to the Congress and the American people anyway?

Right?

Yes, I am. At one point I was reading everything ever written about OIF and watching every documentary trying to make sense of why I was there. Then after multiple deployments it just didn't matter anymore. I was there because I belonged to the military through a binding contract and they kept sending me there. All that mattered was trying to make some kind of good out of it and coming home alive. I don't care if I die doing something awesome, but I did not want to leave my ghost in that shit hole country. By being there I did not have the luxury of seeing the big picture unfold on the news. I only saw what was right in front of me. But what I saw was unadulterated uncensored and not second or third hand info from biased media outlets.

My life became much more simple when I stopped trying to figure out the war and started learning Arabic, studying Iraqi culture, and learning about Islam and the quaran, and just did the best I could do with the jobs I was given

[Erroll 49]

wmw999

As long as the contributions are largely constructive, I'm not sure I care. I'm just happy the sentences are coherent, complete, and grammatical.

Wendy P.

It is indeed refreshing to read rope-a-dope's well written and coherent posts.

It is also ironic that the more sanctimonious and condescending the posts of some of the other contributors, the further away they were from ever even seeing a war zone.

[fasted3 0]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can appreciate your perspective of it, from the trees, so to speak, rather than the forest.
I am a vet myself (70-72,) I dispute your opinion that we could have prevailed in viet nam had we tried harder.
As in Afganistan, and Iraq, we were doomed from the start, and the only way to win would be unacceptable to the world.
We always had the ability kill every last person in Viet Nam, Afganistan, and Iraq, and we would have, had we really needed to, now wouldn't we?
So sorry, but the view from the trees is that it was all for naught. Your friends and mine died for nothing. We lost, but didn't.
I think if we had put our money on making America better, that would have been money better spent.
I am very disappointed that the lessons of viet nam were ignored.

But what do I know?

[Amazon 7]

fasted3

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can appreciate your perspective of it, from the trees, so to speak, rather than the forest.
I am a vet myself (70-72,) I dispute your opinion that we could have prevailed in viet nam had we tried harder.
As in Afganistan, and Iraq, we were doomed from the start, and the only way to win would be unacceptable to the world.
We always had the ability kill every last person in Viet Nam, Afganistan, and Iraq, and we would have, had we really needed to, now wouldn't we?
So sorry, but the view from the trees is that it was all for naught. Your friends and mine died for nothing. We lost, but didn't.
I think if we had put our money on making America better, that would have been money better spent.
I am very disappointed that the lessons of viet nam were ignored.

[RopeaDope 0]

fasted3

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can appreciate your perspective of it, from the trees, so to speak, rather than the forest.
I am a vet myself (70-72,) I dispute your opinion that we could have prevailed in viet nam had we tried harder.
As in Afganistan, and Iraq, we were doomed from the start, and the only way to win would be unacceptable to the world.
We always had the ability kill every last person in Viet Nam, Afganistan, and Iraq, and we would have, had we really needed to, now wouldn't we?
So sorry, but the view from the trees is that it was all for naught. Your friends and mine died for nothing. We lost, but didn't.
I think if we had put our money on making America better, that would have been money better spent.
I am very disappointed that the lessons of viet nam were ignored.

Agreed. My reference to Nam was off the cuff. I am not well studied in the political strategy of that war, or Iraq/Afghanistan, or the analysis of the woulda, coulda, shoulda, and what if scenarios. So please put no stock in those comments.

War is a game of kings and it is played out by pawns. Whether you were drafted, or naive and trying to escape a small poor farming town and start a life for yourself, if you are the pawn you have to fight over something you may not fully understand or even believe in, against another young man who feels the same way and does not want to face you in battle either.

Yet there you are, fighting will all your heart, because the more brutal the fight, the faster it is over. You want to win your platoon's battles so you and your platoon are the survivors of the shit show.

At the end of it all, you try to rationalize it. You want some kind of closure for why your friends are dead, or paralyzed, or missing limbs. You need to find some kind of way to live with yourself, because the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so even though you are a young soldier trying to save the world, you begin to realize how life really works.

You can do everything right and honorably, but when you learn that some of your "enemy" are misguided youth, that are easily manipulated by their religious beliefs, and being paid to fight the evil crusaders when their family is poor and starving, it's not an easy pill to swallow.

I'm not religious myself, but I know the basic jist of the bible stories. If you skim through the Qoran, it is remarkably similar to the King James Bible. Their religion is actually quite beautiful, but more than 80% of Iraqis are illiterate. That means they can't even read their own Qoran for themselves. The only thing they know about their religion is what they are told. So when a charismatic extremist cleric starts manipulating the wording they can be easily misled.

I really like what was said earlier in this thread, about the countries of the Middle East being lines drawn in the sand 100 years ago by some westerners who had no notion of the thousands of years of religious and tribal boundaries in that area.

[Amazon 7]

You're welcome.


Usually no one listens to me.