Another mass shooting...

[normiss 622]

Don't tempt me with a good time!

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Well at least the NRA makes its money telling the truth.

When did Obama ban all guns, again?

If he could he would
You and I both know this to be true

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

The CDC is a biased organization when it comes to guns

And

It is none of their damned business anyway

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Someone in this thread asked if this shooter was on drugs.

From Infowars

Quote

As the Oregonian reports, “There are a number of indications that Harper-Mercer had mental health or behavioral issues. His screen name on some social media sites was “lithium love.” Lithium is used as a psychiatric medication.”

Lithium is used to enhance the effect of SSRI drugs, a number of which, “have also been linked to increase risk for violent, even homicidal behavior,” reports Time.

On one of his Facebook posts, Mercer also made reference to a number of different prescription drugs he was taking.

“I have a pill bottle with like five types of pills mixed in. I don’t know which ones are the sleep aids, so I just took four of each,” wrote Mercer.

Quote

The gunman was also struggling with his inability to find a girlfriend, which was one of the factors that contributed to Mercer’s mental health issues, according to his mother.

Ms. Harper also, “Expressed having expertise in autism, saying that both she and her son — whom she never identified by name — had Asperger’s syndrome,” reports the New York Times. She also revealed how Mercer was placed in a psychiatric hospital when he refused to take his medication.

Every time there is a mass shooting, the national debate centers around gun control, with any discussion of the link between psychiatric drugs and violent outbursts being relegated to the fringes.

As we previously highlighted, Charleston shooter Dylann Roof was reportedly taking a drug – suboxone – that has been linked with sudden outbursts of violence.

Virtually every major mass shooter, from Columbine killer Eric Harris, to ‘Batman’ shooter James Holmes, to Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza, was taking some form of SSRI or other pharmaceutical drug at the time of their attack.

There is a common thread it seems

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,634]

Quote

There is a common thread it seems

Yes, the common thread is that nutjobs with guns are dangerous, but people like you oppose any tightening on the rules that are supposed to prevent them from getting guns.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,634]

rushmc

The CDC is a biased organization when it comes to guns

And

It is none of their damned business anyway

Translation - rushmc doesn't want the truth to come out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,634]

rushmc

Someone in this thread asked if this shooter was on drugs.

From Infowars

Quote

As the Oregonian reports, “There are a number of indications that Harper-Mercer had mental health or behavioral issues. His screen name on some social media sites was “lithium love.” Lithium is used as a psychiatric medication.”

Lithium is also used in batteries. Maybe he loved batteries.

IOW, drawing ANY conclusion from his screen name is just stretching.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[piisfish 135]

rushmc

Someone in this thread asked if this shooter was on drugs.

...
There is a common thread it seems

does that mean that there is an issue with people who are severly medicated for mental health problems who still have access to guns. Lots of guns.. And ammo... MMMHHH I love the smell of powder

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[rushmc 18]

piisfish

***Someone in this thread asked if this shooter was on drugs.

...
There is a common thread it seems

does that mean that there is an issue with people who are severly medicated for mental health problems who still have access to guns. Lots of guns.. And ammo... MMMHHH I love the smell of powder
Much better post than any of kallends

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,129]

Quote

There was a time not so long ago that some one looking at you was not taken as a reason to go get a gun and shoot them, or to kill some innocent person/cop in order to be come part of a "gang", but if you did have an issue with some one and you feel like violence was the only solution, I remember many a fist fight where all anybody suffered was a fat lip or a bloody nose.

People keep saying that, but the murder rate was higher in the late sixties and all throughout the seventies in the US...not by much, but still.

[kallend 1,634]

piisfish

***Someone in this thread asked if this shooter was on drugs.

...
There is a common thread it seems

does that mean that there is an issue with people who are severly medicated for mental health problems who still have access to guns. Lots of guns.. And ammo... MMMHHH I love the smell of powder
Of course it does. Unless, of course, you are the NRA, which gives lip service but in fact opposes any fix.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

***>Well at least the NRA makes its money telling the truth.

When did Obama ban all guns, again?

If he could he would
You and I both know this to be true

So that is EVERY option on the little NRA Black 8 Ball with the fortune teller on the bottom that you got at the gun show???

[kallend 1,634]

SkyDekker

Quote

There was a time not so long ago that some one looking at you was not taken as a reason to go get a gun and shoot them, or to kill some innocent person/cop in order to be come part of a "gang", but if you did have an issue with some one and you feel like violence was the only solution, I remember many a fist fight where all anybody suffered was a fat lip or a bloody nose.

People keep saying that, but the murder rate was higher in the late sixties and all throughout the seventies in the US...not by much, but still.

Here's the way it works if you're a NRA apologist:

If gun laws are relaxed and the murder rate goes up, it's all due to demographics because we know it can't be due to the gun laws.

If gun laws are tightened and the murder rate goes up, it shows conclusively that gun laws don't work. Demographics? Are you kidding me?

If gun laws are relaxed and the murder rate goes down, it shows conclusively that gun laws don't work. Demographics? What's that?

If gun laws are tightened and the murder rate goes down, it's just demographics, because we know it couldn't be due to the gun laws.

Firearms murders in developed countries with stronger gun laws are lower? It's all due to the culture, nothing to do with firearms.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

Again
You stated within this thread that the NRA has made gun laws toothless

Which laws and what did the NRA to do this?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rick 67]

Anvilbrother

I bailed on them when I kept getting 10 emails a day to donate to this or that, or go to this web store and buy something. I paid my membership fuck off.

that is why I will not be renewing jeebus I got calls on my cell phone, junk mail and a shit load of e-mails asking for more $$$

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[rushmc 18]

Anvilbrother

I bailed on them when I kept getting 10 emails a day to donate to this or that, or go to this web store and buy something. I paid my membership fuck off.

Same for me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jbscout2002 1]

rushmc

***I bailed on them when I kept getting 10 emails a day to donate to this or that, or go to this web store and buy something. I paid my membership fuck off.

Same for me

Same here. Pay your dues, than a week later get mail asking for donations. Donate $5 and get a t shirt, donate $10 and get a key chain.... How about you take my membership dues and stop spending it on key chains and junk mail campaigns and private jets, and actually put it to use.

They can have my vote. No more money tho.

[rushmc 18]

I do belong to this group

https://www.facebook.com/IowaFirearmsCoalition

100% volunteer supported as no one get paid

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jbscout2002 1]

Get a load of this guy.

Quote

"How many more lives have to be ruined by guns before we finally take them away? And how often do we have to listen to crazy people (including members of the Supreme Court) telling us that the Second Amendment grants every American citizen the right to carry a weapon?"

"I don't myself mind if, in addition to the police and the military, there are some self-appointed militias in old-fashioned breeches carrying muskets -- that's the sort of firearm our Founding Fathers knew about. But let's regulate them."

"I suspect that the framers of the Bill of Rights have long since rolled over in their graves. They never meant that ordinary citizens, including crackpots, should be able to buy weapons meant for battlefields."

"Do we really want our campuses turned into armed camps? Colleges and classrooms should be havens of tranquility, places where thoughtful discussions occur, where students work together with their teachers to acquire knowledge of the arts and sciences. A campus should be peaceful and peace-loving, and they should be places where arguments are made and defended rationally, with evidence."

"I would much prefer to live in a country where only hunters who pass appropriately strict tests for mental competence and a knowledge of gun safety can still acquire rifles that are appropriate for hunting. Handguns and assault rifles would be banned, period."

"There is no safety in gun ownership. Only threat. So let's get rid of guns in this country, once and for all, making it a felony to possess a handgun or assault rifle. Over a period of years, illegal guns will gradually disappear." - Jay Parini, CNN

These are the people shaping the minds of the future leaders of America.

[rushmc 18]

jbscout2002

Get a load of this guy.

Quote

"How many more lives have to be ruined by guns before we finally take them away? And how often do we have to listen to crazy people (including members of the Supreme Court) telling us that the Second Amendment grants every American citizen the right to carry a weapon?"

"I don't myself mind if, in addition to the police and the military, there are some self-appointed militias in old-fashioned breeches carrying muskets -- that's the sort of firearm our Founding Fathers knew about. But let's regulate them."

"I suspect that the framers of the Bill of Rights have long since rolled over in their graves. They never meant that ordinary citizens, including crackpots, should be able to buy weapons meant for battlefields."

"Do we really want our campuses turned into armed camps? Colleges and classrooms should be havens of tranquility, places where thoughtful discussions occur, where students work together with their teachers to acquire knowledge of the arts and sciences. A campus should be peaceful and peace-loving, and they should be places where arguments are made and defended rationally, with evidence."

"I would much prefer to live in a country where only hunters who pass appropriately strict tests for mental competence and a knowledge of gun safety can still acquire rifles that are appropriate for hunting. Handguns and assault rifles would be banned, period."

"There is no safety in gun ownership. Only threat. So let's get rid of guns in this country, once and for all, making it a felony to possess a handgun or assault rifle. Over a period of years, illegal guns will gradually disappear." - Jay Parini, CNN

These are the people shaping the minds of the future leaders of America.

Typical liberal who choses not to educate himself regarding the 2nd Amendment.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 128]

get a load of these guys....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky49ltgeXRU

both sides are extreme....what the vast majority of what America wants is some better laws somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

Especially on background checks. but what we get is absolutely zero movement in any direction, and what we thus can expect is a continuation of innocent people being killed by guns en masse.

[jbscout2002 1]

As to what the Founders "had in mind" when they worded the 2nd Amendment, weapons available at the time were: The Puckle gun (a British flintlock machinegun invented by James Puckle in 1718), Cannon (3 pounder to 42 pounder - - description based on the weight of the shot) with ranges up to 2 miles, and Flintlock pistols.

No specific weapons were named as to be the "arms" that the People had he Right to keep and bear, however, the 9the Amendment states that, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

The 14th Ammendment states that, "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.."

[jbscout2002 1]

tkhayes

get a load of these guys....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky49ltgeXRU

both sides are extreme....what the vast majority of what America wants is some better laws somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

Especially on background checks. but what we get is absolutely zero movement in any direction, and what we thus can expect is a continuation of innocent people being killed by guns en masse.

Agreed.

[jbscout2002 1]

Quote

In the 1925 landmark case Gitlow v. New York, communist party member Benjamin Gitlow was convicted of violating New York’s Anarchy Law by advocating the violent overthrown of the government. Having exhausted the appeals on the State level, he took his case to the Supreme Court. He argued first that the New York’s law violated the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of expression. Second, that the Fourteenth Amendment “due process clause” incorporated the entire Bill of Rights applying them to the States.

Although the Court upheld Gitlow’s conviction and the New York law, it accepted this fallacious argument stating that “freedom of speech and of the press … are among the fundamental rights and ‘liberties’ protected by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.” The precedent was set; the Court claimed the Bill of Rights constituted a restraint not only on the federal government but also on each of the States as well.

The above case shows that, well, the Bill of Rights does in fact protect our liberties. These same liberties that allow citizens to lead protest to overthrow the government, or burn the American flag (because I'm sure they were trying to protect that right when they wrote it), and to publish articles in major news outlets demanding other violations of our constitutionally protected liberties.

All the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, to include the right to keep and bear arms, are considered fundamental rights and liberties protected by the 14th Amendment. The 2nd Amendment even goes so far as to state that the right to keep and bear arms in particular, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Infringement: The encroachment, breach, or violation of a right, law, regulation, or contract.

Some States' major objection to the new Constitution was its lack of a bill of rights. Bill of Rights list specific freedoms that the government cannot threaten or take away. The Antifederalists believed that without a list of personal freedoms, the new national government might abuse its powers.

The intent of our Founding Fathers is often called into question by gun control advocates. While it has withstood the test of time that all provisions of the 1st Amendment are absolute, all inclusive, and unalienable, there seems to be a double standard when applied to the 2nd Amendment.

With all aspects of the Constitution being so carefully thought out, the framers thought it essential that a Bill of Rights be contained within it. Out of the 12 proposed, 10 were ratified and became the official Bill of Rights. The right of the People to keep and bear arms was so important to to Founding Fathers, and essential to the acceptance of the finalized Constitution, that it was written out in its own separate Amendment. The 2nd Amendment was written in a clear and straight forward manner.

While one can claim to know what the Founders were "thinking" as they carefully crafted and debated this new document, the Federalist Papers actually provide insight. In the Federalist Papers, the Founders address questions of from the public who are concerned over how their new government will operate.

Example:

"It will be attended to, that in the examination of these expedients, I confine myself to their aptitude for ENFORCING the Constitution, by keeping the several departments of power within their due bounds, without particularly considering them as provisions for ALTERING the Constitution itself." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 50

The Bill of Rights protects the Peoples' liberties and rights listed within from a possible overreaching of the government.

To claim that the 2nd Amendment grants the States a right to maintain a National Guard is absurd. The National Guard is a component of the U.S. Department of Defense. They are under joint control of the State and Federal governments. They receive funding from the federal government, and all of their vehicles, equipment, arms, and ammunition is supplied by the federal government. In no way, could the National Guard ever be construed as "the People".

[rushmc 18]

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln