More mass shootings

[billvon 2,400]

>So a perfect America would be an armed security detail for every American

But no guns for anyone near him. So we'd have 'real Americans' who merit security details, and everyone else who could only carry guns when they were somewhere they could do no damage. (Say, schools or Las Vegas hotels.)

[jcd11235 0]

nolhtairt

******And just recently, in Atlanta three black guys,

Gotta love it when posts contain irrelevant information that serves only to reveal the biases of the poster.

There was security video of the perps.
And the demonstrated bias continues!

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Hooknswoop 19]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/us/chicago-crime-drop-april/index.html

“It's a remarkable drop in a city long plagued by gun violence. In the month of April, there were 29% fewer shootings and 21% fewer killings -- decreases authorities attribute to the hiring of more officers, stronger community policing efforts and investments in technology, such as gunshot detection systems and predictive crime software to help deploy officers.”

Exactly the type of effective solutions I have suggested that do not restrict anyone’s rights. We need more of this.

Derek V

[Phil1111 911]

Hooknswoop

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/01/us/chicago-crime-drop-april/index.html

“It's a remarkable drop in a city long plagued by gun violence. In the month of April, there were 29% fewer shootings and 21% fewer killings -- decreases authorities attribute to the hiring of more officers, stronger community policing efforts and investments in technology, such as gunshot detection systems and predictive crime software to help deploy officers.”

Exactly the type of effective solutions I have suggested that do not restrict anyone’s rights. We need more of this.

Derek V

They had an expert of some sort talking about this on TV. He wasn't asked and it wasn't discussed. But I wonder what part the massive increase in incarceration has had. Together with an ageing population.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/11/this-mesmerising-animation-shows-how-the-us-population-is-ageing

[Bob_Church 7]

The article also mentions an increase in cooperation between residents and police. I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

[DJL 232]

Bob_Church

The article also mentions an increase in cooperation between residents and police. I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

From what I've read in other cities they get much better results if they get involved in the community. London's rise in crime had a direct correlation to the govt funding cuts to community outreach programs and staff.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[wmw999 2,122]

Quote

I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

That's the "beat them into submission" approach. I.e. wait until things are so bad that they change. Of course, sometimes they don't change.

Another approach is to understand what the issues are that one can affect one's self (i.e. things I can impact that might have an effect on crime elsewhere). So in other words, rather than rich people waiting for poorer people to get so poor and downtrodden that they come begging, instead, rich people stop behaviors that increase division (like waiting for domestic help to get so cheap, or buying cool stuff just because it's cheap, when it might not be made here).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[millertime24 8]

wmw999

Quote

I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

That's the "beat them into submission" approach. I.e. wait until things are so bad that they change. Of course, sometimes they don't change.

Another approach is to understand what the issues are that one can affect one's self (i.e. things I can impact that might have an effect on crime elsewhere). So in other words, rather than rich people waiting for poorer people to get so poor and downtrodden that they come begging, instead, rich people stop behaviors that increase division (like waiting for domestic help to get so cheap, or buying cool stuff just because it's cheap, when it might not be made here).

Wendy P.

I agree here

Muff #5048

[Bob_Church 7]

wmw999

Quote

I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

That's the "beat them into submission" approach. I.e. wait until things are so bad that they change. Of course, sometimes they don't change.

Another approach is to understand what the issues are that one can affect one's self (i.e. things I can impact that might have an effect on crime elsewhere). So in other words, rather than rich people waiting for poorer people to get so poor and downtrodden that they come begging, instead, rich people stop behaviors that increase division (like waiting for domestic help to get so cheap, or buying cool stuff just because it's cheap, when it might not be made here).

Wendy P.

I couldn't agree more but how to get there. And believe, it's not just rich Republicans that will shoot you down when you bring up these problems.

[DJL 232]

Bob_Church

***

Quote

I wonder if citizens in the hardest hit areas are just fed up with being victims and have gotten to the point where day to day life is more important than tired 60s rhetoric.

That's the "beat them into submission" approach. I.e. wait until things are so bad that they change. Of course, sometimes they don't change.

Another approach is to understand what the issues are that one can affect one's self (i.e. things I can impact that might have an effect on crime elsewhere). So in other words, rather than rich people waiting for poorer people to get so poor and downtrodden that they come begging, instead, rich people stop behaviors that increase division (like waiting for domestic help to get so cheap, or buying cool stuff just because it's cheap, when it might not be made here).

Wendy P.

I couldn't agree more but how to get there. And believe, it's not just rich Republicans that will shoot you down when you bring up these problems.

The problem is that the downtrodden people have no voice and oftentimes no ability to eloquently convey their needs. People end up in these places as a last resort, you're not going to all of a sudden have a room full of people making some great Gregory Peck style appeal to city council.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Hooknswoop 19]

Didn’t Chicago relax their gun laws last year?

Derek V

[kallend 1,623]

Hooknswoop

Didn’t Chicago relax their gun laws last year?

Derek V

No.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Was there any changes to their gun laws?

Derek V

[nolhtairt 0]

Hooknswoop

Was there any changes to their gun laws?

Derek V

I don't think changing the gun laws is gonna matter in Chicago. The gangbangers are gonna still get guns and shoot themselves out of existence.

[kallend 1,623]

Hooknswoop

Was there any changes to their gun laws?

Derek V

Possession of handguns and registration laws relaxed in 2010. Concealed carry allowed in 2014. Homicides then went UP.

In 2017 Gun trafficking laws TIGHTENED, and law enacted enabling local police to confiscate guns of people who had their FOID revoked.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hooknswoop 19]

"Chicago killings and shootings drop for 14th consecutive month"

Quote

Possession of handguns and registration laws relaxed in 2010. Concealed carry allowed in 2014. Homicides then went UP.

In 2017 Gun trafficking laws TIGHTENED, and law enacted enabling local police to confiscate guns of people who had their FOID revoked.

"It's a remarkable drop in a city long plagued by gun violence. In April, there were 29% fewer shootings and 21% fewer killings -- decreases authorities attribute to the hiring of more officers, stronger community policing efforts and investments in technology, such as gunshot detection systems and predictive crime software, to help deploy officers.
"The third piece, and I tell you, it just can't be understated, is that fact that the community has now re-engaged with the police department and are helping us to reduce the violence," Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson told CNN affiliate WLS TV on Tuesday."

Local authorities don;t seem to agree with your conclusion that the decrease can be attributed to the "Gun trafficking laws".

Derek V

[kallend 1,623]

Hooknswoop

"Chicago killings and shootings drop for 14th consecutive month"

Quote

Possession of handguns and registration laws relaxed in 2010. Concealed carry allowed in 2014. Homicides then went UP.

In 2017 Gun trafficking laws TIGHTENED, and law enacted enabling local police to confiscate guns of people who had their FOID revoked.

"It's a remarkable drop in a city long plagued by gun violence. In April, there were 29% fewer shootings and 21% fewer killings -- decreases authorities attribute to the hiring of more officers, stronger community policing efforts and investments in technology, such as gunshot detection systems and predictive crime software, to help deploy officers.
"The third piece, and I tell you, it just can't be understated, is that fact that the community has now re-engaged with the police department and are helping us to reduce the violence," Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson told CNN affiliate WLS TV on Tuesday."

Local authorities don;t seem to agree with your conclusion that the decrease can be attributed to the "Gun trafficking laws".

Derek V

I made no such conclusion, just responded to your question implying relaxation of gun laws last year ("Didn’t Chicago relax their gun laws last year?"). They weren't, they were tightened.

The only person attempting to draw a conclusion is you, and your suggestion does not jibe with the facts. Even after the slight drop in 2017, the FACT remains that murders are still some 50% higher now than in the decade prior to the big relaxation of gun laws.

If all you can do is distortion then you clearly don't have a case.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[riggerrob 558]

This is another area where the USA lags decades behind the rest of the civilized world.
High school classes in safe gun handling are a good idea. Because learning the basics of firearms handling reduces the risk of accidental discharges. Education also reduces random fears of guns. As soon as they understand the basics of firearms regulations, safe handling, range and penetration, those random fears evolve into logical risk assessments. A bit of education will also reduce the volume of “false news” like The (false) belief that same I am civilians can easily hurt fully-automatic machine guns.
In a simple vein, a group of Canadian gun owners are lobbying Parliament to require legislators and (gun related) civil servants to learn the basics of firearms handling and earn a (firearms) Possesion and Acquisition License.
PAL training also covers the basics of gun storage. For the example, it is against the law to leave firearms laying about unsecured. All guns must be stored in locked cabinets and trigger locks are strongly recommended. Ammunition must be stored in a seperate locked cabinet. Normally guns can only be transported directly from your house to a licensed gun range. There is abit of leeway for hunting. Restricted weapons (read pistols) can only be fired on licenced gun ranges

Secondly, my greatest fear is guns in the hands of bumbling amateurs.

Canadian gun laws reduce the numbers of murders and gun-related suicides. In Vancouver, the majority of shootings involve one drug gang killing members of other drug gangs.

[Bob_Church 7]

rushmc

***>Do you expect me to "properly secure" my guns in a specific manner?

Yes. If you can't secure your guns against accidental (or malicious) use, you shouldn't have them in your house.

Hmmm
So you view guns as a special piece of property

Sorry
I don’t
If my house is locked and someone breaks into my house I should not be liable for what they do with stolen property

If my car is stolen I am not liable for what the thief does with it

This is also related to the federal law that states people can NOT sue arms manufacturers because of what someone else, who has a perfectly operating piece of that companies equipment, for malicious use of that equipment

So
You

Get the hell out of my house
You have NO RIGHT to be there

Sorry, but I don't think cars are a good example. If you leave your keys in the car a lot of places will come down on you for not securing it.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said about not being responsible for what a thief does with it, but law enforcement does expect it to be secured.

[RMK 3]

riggerrob

This is another area where the USA lags decades behind the rest of the civilized world.
High school classes in safe gun handling

None of the other first world nations (with much less incidence of gun problems) have classes of this nature - everyone else does fine.

There are a multitude of life skills that can/should be taught in schools, but we can't take any single groups hobby and assume the whole country is interested. Many people couldn't give a fuck about guns or have any desire in shooting/handling them.

Let's start with spending money/time on education and school supplies; when that's sorted you can add "fluff" like this.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[nolhtairt 0]

Bob_Church

******>Do you expect me to "properly secure" my guns in a specific manner?

Yes. If you can't secure your guns against accidental (or malicious) use, you shouldn't have them in your house.

Hmmm
So you view guns as a special piece of property

Sorry
I don’t
If my house is locked and someone breaks into my house I should not be liable for what they do with stolen property

If my car is stolen I am not liable for what the thief does with it

This is also related to the federal law that states people can NOT sue arms manufacturers because of what someone else, who has a perfectly operating piece of that companies equipment, for malicious use of that equipment

So
You

Get the hell out of my house
You have NO RIGHT to be there

Sorry, but I don't think cars are a good example. If you leave your keys in the car a lot of places will come down on you for not securing it.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said about not being responsible for what a thief does with it, but law enforcement does expect it to be secured.

Being a responsible gun owner means making sure the weapons are secured and cannot be retrieved easily by a burglar. We have to do our part to keep the bad guys from getting them. I've had my house broken into before, but they could never find my guns. Made off with a few other items that could easily be replaced though. Now it's got a home security alarm and police is only 2 minutes away straight up the road. Good luck with that.

[kallend 1,623]

nolhtairt

*********>Do you expect me to "properly secure" my guns in a specific manner?

Yes. If you can't secure your guns against accidental (or malicious) use, you shouldn't have them in your house.

Hmmm
So you view guns as a special piece of property

Sorry
I don’t
If my house is locked and someone breaks into my house I should not be liable for what they do with stolen property

If my car is stolen I am not liable for what the thief does with it

This is also related to the federal law that states people can NOT sue arms manufacturers because of what someone else, who has a perfectly operating piece of that companies equipment, for malicious use of that equipment

So
You

Get the hell out of my house
You have NO RIGHT to be there

Sorry, but I don't think cars are a good example. If you leave your keys in the car a lot of places will come down on you for not securing it.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said about not being responsible for what a thief does with it, but law enforcement does expect it to be secured.

Being a responsible gun owner means making sure the weapons are secured and cannot be retrieved easily by a burglar. We have to do our part to keep the bad guys from getting them. I've had my house broken into before, but they could never find my guns. Made off with a few other items that could easily be replaced though. Now it's got a home security alarm and police is only 2 minutes away straight up the road. Good luck with that.

Thanks for being more responsible than the 300,000 or so gun owners who have their guns stolen every year (DoJ figures) - and that's just the ones who report the thefts. Every one of those represents a gun ending up in the hands of a criminal. After cash and jewelry, guns are the favorite targets of burglars.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Thanks for being more responsible than the 300,000 or so gun owners who have their guns stolen every year (DoJ figures) - and that's just the ones who report the thefts. Every one of those represents a gun ending up in the hands of a criminal. After cash and jewelry, guns are the favorite targets of burglars.

And to think 3 to 4 times that number gets into the criminal market by way of straw buyers and shady Federal Firearms Licensed dealers.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[nolhtairt 0]

DJL

Quote

Thanks for being more responsible than the 300,000 or so gun owners who have their guns stolen every year (DoJ figures) - and that's just the ones who report the thefts. Every one of those represents a gun ending up in the hands of a criminal. After cash and jewelry, guns are the favorite targets of burglars.

And to think 3 to 4 times that number gets into the criminal market by way of straw buyers and shady Federal Firearms Licensed dealers.

Yeah, there's always a black market for guns if you know where and who to go to.

[billvon 2,400]

>Yeah, there's always a black market for guns if you know where and who to go to.

And unfortunately the NRA wants to make sure there is always a way for criminals to get guns. (Helps with gun sales, and the NRA lives on contributions from gun manufacturers.)