regulator 0 #101 July 24, 2015 that_guyJust to be clear. I don't know any of you personally. I rather enjoy the banter of this section. No hard feelings on my part. Why would i be frustrated about such things when i have a weekend full of fun with my friends at the dropzone planned? just sayin.. you guys/gals are all ok in my book. This should be an indicator of what actually happens in a firearms registration scheme. http://bearingarms.com/empire-state-rebellion-new-yorkers-refused-register-95-percent-assault-weapons/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 714 #102 July 24, 2015 Yes, a number of "things" to be sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #103 July 24, 2015 AnvilbrotherI did your solutions are. -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun Am I missing anything? Please tell me if I am... How are the law going to stop a homicidal/suicidal dude who has nothing to lose? None of these wanna be mass murderer think that they are going to get away and do it again. They are there to kill as many as possible before they pull a trigger to themselves.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #104 July 24, 2015 Don't ask me ask normiss he's the one coming up with the answers. Or at least he tried and then stopped. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #105 July 24, 2015 Well enlighten us with the rest of them then. I will say that the point you brought up about a nationwide database of persons who a professional mental health doctor has diagnosed as not being able to have a gun should exist, and enforced. What are the other solutions from you I missed that you said you have already stated in this thread? Things you suggested -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail Stricter laws do not work if that were the case people would never make it to their third strike knowing the harshness of the next level -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns Great point I like this one now how do you ensure they have no guns once you have the registered ones -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. Who exactly is in charge of this? - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun How do we go about this exactly? Things you have not addressed -guns the authorities did not know the person had -street bought guns -straw purchases -stealing firearms -normal legally owned firearm holders who instantly snap over a spontaneous situation(rape/divorce/fired/etc) with no previous criminal or mental illness. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
that_guy 0 #106 July 24, 2015 regulator This should be an indicator of what actually happens in a firearms registration scheme. http://bearingarms.com/empire-state-rebellion-new-yorkers-refused-register-95-percent-assault-weapons/ I am very familiar with the decisions involved in "Do i register my AR15 in a state known for radical gun law changes. Or do i just not register it?" First month living in CA after the military, my VA provided therapist that was working on my PTSD symptons with me, who also happened to be a reserve police officer and a vet, advised me that if it were him, he wouldn't register them. Further proof of what happens in reality. Gun laws are just that, laws. Laws are broken by a lot of people everyday. some big and most little. I view this as a little one coming from my experience of living all over the country in different states, none of which ever asked me to register my guns. Just because I had PTSD symptoms for a few years doesn't mean i'm crazy and it doesn't mean i should be blacklisted for life from owning a firearm. That's just nonsense. Now if i had been committed and diagnosed as a threat to society somehow. Yeah blacklist my butt. By the same token, any of the millions of people diagnosed with clinical depression that take anti depressants should by the previously stated guidance, be forever blacklisted from firearm ownership. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #107 July 24, 2015 AnvilbrotherWell enlighten us with the rest of them then. I will say that the point you brought up about a nationwide database of persons who a professional mental health doctor has diagnosed as not being able to have a gun should exist, and enforced. What are the other solutions from you I missed that you said you have already stated in this thread? Things you suggested -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail Stricter laws do not work if that were the case people would never make it to their third strike knowing the harshness of the next level -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns Great point I like this one now how do you ensure they have no guns once you have the registered ones -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. Who exactly is in charge of this? - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun How do we go about this exactly? Things you have not addressed -guns the authorities did not know the person had -street bought guns -straw purchases -stealing firearms -normal legally owned firearm holders who instantly snap over a spontaneous situation(rape/divorce/fired/etc) with no previous criminal or mental illness. Get rid of NRA. First and most important step. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #108 July 24, 2015 To get rid of this problem completely, stop the sale of gun and ammos, gun related books and magazines, ads, firing range, steep penalty(cutting off hand and foot) for possessing a firearm. and then it will take another 100-200 years for the America to be completely gun free. and that is when Mexico takes over. none of that shit is going to happen. just accept it for what it is. have a plan when some nut case goes off when you go anywhere crowed next time. The country is built on firearms, so it will die by the firearms. Blood in blood out. The country didn't choose the thug life, thug life chose the country.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #109 July 24, 2015 christelsabine ***Well enlighten us with the rest of them then. I will say that the point you brought up about a nationwide database of persons who a professional mental health doctor has diagnosed as not being able to have a gun should exist, and enforced. What are the other solutions from you I missed that you said you have already stated in this thread? Things you suggested -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail Stricter laws do not work if that were the case people would never make it to their third strike knowing the harshness of the next level -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns Great point I like this one now how do you ensure they have no guns once you have the registered ones -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. Who exactly is in charge of this? - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun How do we go about this exactly? Things you have not addressed -guns the authorities did not know the person had -street bought guns -straw purchases -stealing firearms -normal legally owned firearm holders who instantly snap over a spontaneous situation(rape/divorce/fired/etc) with no previous criminal or mental illness. Get rid of NRA. First and most important step. (breathe) There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #110 July 24, 2015 QuoteGet rid of NRA. First and most important step. How does that specifically stop the next mass murder? Obviously no one would be there to oppose the government from passing anything they wished, but what laws would then be passed with them not there? I want specifics ideas about what you would then pass. Good to see Germany step in here with your great ideas, where is your sidekick and funjumper101 with the next amazing answer? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 714 #111 July 24, 2015 also jail people who let someone who is have a gun I never said that, whatever it is. Stricter penalties for illegal gun sales. Nutter database included with background check. Diagnosis or current treatment? No pew pew. New diagnosis? See above, same issue, same answer. ALL personal sales and transfers, again I say, must be completed at the cop shop (or a gun shop would work if all are checked) I cannot understand why any legal gun owner would be opposed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
that_guy 0 #112 July 24, 2015 normiss also jail people who let someone who is have a gun I never said that, whatever it is. Stricter penalties for illegal gun sales. Nutter database included with background check. Diagnosis or current treatment? No pew pew. New diagnosis? See above, same issue, same answer. ALL personal sales and transfers, again I say, must be completed at the cop shop (or a gun shop would work if all are checked) I cannot understand why any legal gun owner would be opposed. Maybe you need to freshen up on mental health issues. Judging by your recurring use of the oh so fun term "nutter", you probably will either just deny that you or anyone you know has ever dealt with any form of mental illness. One of the side effects of stupid laws like the ones you propose is that people will not seek help any longer because they don't want to be labeled and segregated against and then they won't receive the help they need and them already being gun owners are put into an even more dangerous category of untreated, undiagnosed mentally ill gun owners who are a real threat to public safety. Just because i dealt with ptsd in the past doesnt mean i am not more qualified than most citizens to with regards to firearms use or that I am still or ever was unstable enough to warrant lifetime ban from ownership. Once again, i'd love to see an official attempt to take away my legally owned firearms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #113 July 24, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuoteGet rid of NRA. First and most important step. How does that specifically stop the next mass murder? Obviously no one would be there to oppose the government from passing anything they wished, but what laws would then be passed with them not there? I want specifics ideas about what you would then pass. Good to see Germany step in here with your great ideas, where is your sidekick and funjumper101 with the next amazing answer? I have no connection with funjumper101. So don't understand that. And it's not Germany stepping in here, it's me ... However, I do remember the TV show when Obamas gun law proposals were refused, when this Biden clown simply handed over the control over the US to the NRA .... that was telling volumes about who really controls you. As long as NRA has such a giant influence on every part of American life, you will have to deal with thousands of gun related death per year in future, too. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #114 July 24, 2015 NORMISS WROTE: also jail people who let someone who is have a gun I never said that, whatever it is. From your own post.... Quote I have yet to hear how he acquired this weapon, but if there is a trail, those people in the trail should be charged and jailed. Here is my problems with the answer to your solutions. Stricter penalties for illegal gun sales. Already stated stricter laws do not deter criminals or crazy people Nutter database included with background check. Diagnosis or current treatment? No pew pew. Agreed New diagnosis? See above, same issue, same answer.\ Not the same issue not the same answer. One is just a denial, the other is forfeiture of weapons that could be spread across many places. Who is in charge of gathering them, do the cops get a search warrant to tear up your house, your car, your work, your vehicles? When do you get those guns back? Never? What happens to them? Do you get compensated? Its not your fault you went crazy but gun collections can be tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. What about your family members do they give up their rights to own firearms also even if they are locked in a safe only they know the combination to? ETC....ETC....ETC.. ALL personal sales and transfers, again I say, must be completed at the cop shop (or a gun shop would work if all are checked) 50 of the 61 mass shooters in this study from 1982-2012 did the shootings with legally obtained weapons so that does not stop the mass shootings either http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/18/11-essential-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/ Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #115 July 24, 2015 Ahh yes Biden the current vice president who was in charge of the initiate to overhaul gun safety who said this. Quote "If there's ever a problem," Biden said he told his wife, Jill, "just walk out on the balcony here--walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house -- I promise you whoever is coming in ... You don't need an AR-15, it's harder to aim, it's harder to use...Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!" Lets do the math most home defense loads are #4 buckshot. #4 buckshot is .24 cal which is bigger then the evil black ar-15 rifle, and each shell contains about 40 pellets. So Biden king of gun control just told me to shoot 80 rounds of .24 buckshot in a random direction that there might be something that is scaring me.....awesome! Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #116 July 24, 2015 christelsabine***Well enlighten us with the rest of them then. I will say that the point you brought up about a nationwide database of persons who a professional mental health doctor has diagnosed as not being able to have a gun should exist, and enforced. What are the other solutions from you I missed that you said you have already stated in this thread? Things you suggested -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail Stricter laws do not work if that were the case people would never make it to their third strike knowing the harshness of the next level -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns Great point I like this one now how do you ensure they have no guns once you have the registered ones -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. Who exactly is in charge of this? - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun How do we go about this exactly? Things you have not addressed -guns the authorities did not know the person had -street bought guns -straw purchases -stealing firearms -normal legally owned firearm holders who instantly snap over a spontaneous situation(rape/divorce/fired/etc) with no previous criminal or mental illness. Get rid of NRA. First and most important step. Not gonna happen. The nra consists of millions of law abiding citizens. Including me. Just worry about your own country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 714 #117 July 24, 2015 To be fair, I'm not the one in this forum that started using that term, but it has been accepted here as a normal use of reference in cases such as this one. You show a clear example of why this is such a challenging issue, but it doesn't remove the risk to society. There is enough history to show that as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 714 #118 July 24, 2015 Here is my problems with the answer to your solutions. Stricter penalties for illegal gun sales. Already stated stricter laws do not deter criminals or crazy people Hence the problems we face now. As I keep repeating, laws have no effect on criminals. Until after the crime is committed anyway. Nutter database included with background check. Diagnosis or current treatment? No pew pew. Agreed New diagnosis? See above, same issue, same answer.\ Not the same issue not the same answer. One is just a denial, the other is forfeiture of weapons that could be spread across many places. Who is in charge of gathering them, do the cops get a search warrant to tear up your house, your car, your work, your vehicles? When do you get those guns back? Never? What happens to them? Do you get compensated? Its not your fault you went crazy but gun collections can be tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. What about your family members do they give up their rights to own firearms also even if they are locked in a safe only they know the combination to? ETC....ETC....ETC.. Well damn, what do we currently do for a fresh felon? ALL personal sales and transfers, again I say, must be completed at the cop shop (or a gun shop would work if all are checked) 50 of the 61 mass shooters in this study from 1982-2012 did the shootings with legally obtained weapons so that does not stop the mass shootings either So, back to the nutter issue. How many were on psychotropic drugs? Why are you against protecting fellow citizens from being murdered? Does doing nothing help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #119 July 24, 2015 What it boils down to is I refuse to be a victim - I conceal carry to avoid attention - unless a need arose you would never know it was there. I guess it depends on what newsfeeds you pay attention to, I see articles almost every day where a legal gun owner has used their firearm to save themselves or others - many times in their OWN home. I carry the insurance that is available https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ and have done so for years. What is truly obscene is people expecting a person to engage in a life or death struggle with a larger, stronger opponent - or numerous opponents with nothing more than their fists.They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #120 July 24, 2015 piisfish *** I am an ex Marine does this even exist ? (I think I understand what you mean, no longer active military...) Heh, no it really doesn't exist - once a Marine always a Marine. but the Marine I was, was 185 pounds of solid muscle in top physical shape. I feel a twinge of guilt to think of still calling my self a Marine as I am no longer in that kind of shape nor am I active duty. The title Marine belongs to those in that shape and active duty. For us crusty old farts we are still one in our hearts but our bodies are losing the battle with age and injuries. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #121 July 24, 2015 regulator******Well enlighten us with the rest of them then. I will say that the point you brought up about a nationwide database of persons who a professional mental health doctor has diagnosed as not being able to have a gun should exist, and enforced. What are the other solutions from you I missed that you said you have already stated in this thread? Things you suggested -make laws have more stringent penalties and put more people in jail Stricter laws do not work if that were the case people would never make it to their third strike knowing the harshness of the next level -don't let people with confirmed mental illnesses have guns Great point I like this one now how do you ensure they have no guns once you have the registered ones -revoke gun rights for those who have new diagnosis. Who exactly is in charge of this? - also jail people who let someone who is have a gun How do we go about this exactly? Things you have not addressed -guns the authorities did not know the person had -street bought guns -straw purchases -stealing firearms -normal legally owned firearm holders who instantly snap over a spontaneous situation(rape/divorce/fired/etc) with no previous criminal or mental illness. Get rid of NRA. First and most important step. Not gonna happen. The nra consists of millions of law abiding citizens. Including me. Just worry about your own country. Compared with the gun related deaths in the US, we do not have to be afraid of anything similar to this. We have other problems to be solved, such like Greece and its economy, but - that has nothing to do with killing citizens like it's happening in your country on a daily basis. As long as NRA has so many politicians (guess, which party) on its payroll, nothing will be changed in the US. And as, furthermore, mainly *blacks* are killed ...pffff -- who cares? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #122 July 24, 2015 RMK*** Have you by any chance noticed the one thing in common these shooting have? Yes, they're nearly always in the US. Europe has a far larger population than the US; we don't have these problems on the frequency/scale of the US. I completely agree and cannot not argue with you on this point. We have a horrible issue with lack of respect for life here but if firearms were banned the criminals would still use them. Guns would be a large import in addition to drugs through our very porous southern border if they were illegal and making law abiding citizens helpless wont make the problem go away, the criminals bent on doing their deed would merely have an easier time of it.They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #123 July 24, 2015 stayhigh How are the law going to stop a homicidal/suicidal dude who has nothing to lose? None of these wanna be mass murderer think that they are going to get away and do it again. They are there to kill as many as possible before they pull a trigger to themselves. Psychological evaluations for everyone currently owning a gun or purchasing a firearm. Evaluations to be redone on a yearly basis. The cost for said evaluation is part of the license to own a gun. No right to bear arms for those with weapons misdemeanors in their past. It may not stop 'em all, but it'd catch some. And that's better than none. Let's get this straight. Your (and Anvil's) answer is 'do nothing unless a perfect answer can be found.' It's disingenuous to say the least - you know full well that there is no single absolute answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #124 July 24, 2015 stayhigh How are the law going to stop a homicidal/suicidal dude who has nothing to lose? None of these wanna be mass murderer think that they are going to get away and do it again. They are there to kill as many as possible before they pull a trigger to themselves. Or get killed by someone. If one's final goal is body count, where should they start their killing spree? A. A police station. B. A gun shop. C. A park with no gun restrictions. D. A gun free shopping mall. Note: Remember to answer as the shooter, not what would be best for society. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #125 July 24, 2015 N-Normiss A-Anvilbrother Quote N-Stricter penalties for illegal gun sales. A-Already stated stricter laws do not deter criminals or crazy people N-Hence the problems we face now. As I keep repeating, laws have no effect on criminals. Until after the crime is committed anyway. So you admit they dont follow the law, and never refuted that higer sentences deter them, then how does doing it go to your motive of stopping mass shootings? Quote N-Nutter database included with background check. Diagnosis or current treatment? No pew pew. A-Agreed Quote N-New diagnosis? See above, same issue, same answer.\ A-Not the same issue not the same answer. One is just a denial, the other is forfeiture of weapons that could be spread across many places. Who is in charge of gathering them, do the cops get a search warrant to tear up your house, your car, your work, your vehicles? When do you get those guns back? Never? What happens to them? Do you get compensated? Its not your fault you went crazy but gun collections can be tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. What about your family members do they give up their rights to own firearms also even if they are locked in a safe only they know the combination to? ETC....ETC....ETC.. N-Well damn, what do we currently do for a fresh felon? Your right convicted felons never pick up a gun, commit crimes, or homicides after getting out of jail(It is so obvious that your wrong I dont even feel like providing a source for that one) Quote N-ALL personal sales and transfers, again I say, must be completed at the cop shop (or a gun shop would work if all are checked) A-50 of the 61 mass shooters in this study from 1982-2012 did the shootings with legally obtained weapons so that does not stop the mass shootings either N-So, back to the nutter issue. How many were on psychotropic drugs? Well you are not answering the question there, but opening another can of worms, what exactly is going to be the regulations on psychotropic drugs that meets the disqualifications? All of them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychotropic_medications Good luck with that many of the drugs on that list are taken my everyone around you with no mental illness history. Quote N-Why are you against protecting fellow citizens from being murdered? Does doing nothing help? Once again your pulling that bullshit debate tactic along the lines of why do you hate black people, poor people, sick people. I have not said a damn thing here that would be along those lines. I am simply pointing out your solutions problems. You know problem solving skills. -Identify and Define the Problem -Analyze the Problem -Generate Potential Solutions -Analyzing the Solution -Selecting the best Solution -Implement the Solution -Evaluate the Solution Its part of the process normiss. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites