Organic farming

[brenthutch 384]

It might not be as "sustainable" as touted.

Julius McGee, a sociologist at the Univeristy of Oregon who conducted the research, said: 'My analysis finds that the rise of certified organic production in the United States is not correlated with declines in greenhouse gas emissions derived specifically from agricultural production, and on the contrary is associated positively overall agricultural greenhouse gas emissions.
'The big questions are what are we are doing when we shift from conventional to organic production and what are the environmental consequences.
'This study says that the organic farming industry is in the early stages. So far we don't see any mitigating effect on greenhouse gasses.
'We need to pay close attention to what processes in organic farming operations make them the sustainable alternative that we want them to be, and we are going to need to more strictly follow those.'
The study, which is published in the journal Agriculture and Human Values, analysed data in the US between 2000 and 2008 on organic and conventional agricultural greenhouse gas emissions.
Mr McGee also collected data on socioeconomic and agricultural indicators that may have been influencing industry growth trends.
Organic farming first emerged in the US in the 1940s and now makes up three per cent of agricultural land in the US.
He found that rather than causing greenhouse gas emissions to fall, organic farming was actually producing more intense levels of emissions."

[rehmwa 2]

I think it's a great marketing strategy to sell the same, and sometimes worse, stuff at much higher prices.

it's genius

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Anvilbrother 0]

Exactly it's a nice treat for those that can afford it and are too stupid to realize what they are getting gouged for, but if the entire world switched to organic farming today most of the would would starve to death.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[rhaig 0]

I buy organic when it tastes better.

Bananas. That's it.

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

rehmwa

I think it's a great marketing strategy to sell the same, and sometimes worse, stuff at much higher prices.

it's genius

I grew up learning how to grow food from my grandparents.... and they just called it gardening.

I grow my own fruit and veggies..... enough for my family and friends. I start my own veggies from heirloom seeds that breed true every year... not hybrids or GMO crap that come out of the ground and next year will produce alien looking plants and veggies that do not even resemble the species you are trying to get . My take is I do not need to fill my body with crap and poison it with pesticides that are claimed to be safe and then have effects on your body show up years later with a quality of life that will not make you very happy.
Then... they will be the usual whiners.... THEY should have told us.... no.. THEY do not give a crap they want profit above all else and to hell with the people ingesting the crap they are foisting off on a population of people with steadily decreasing intelligence.

[Elisha 1]

Amazon

***I think it's a great marketing strategy to sell the same, and sometimes worse, stuff at much higher prices.

it's genius

I grew up learning how to grow food from my grandparents.... and they just called it gardening.

I grow my own fruit and veggies..... enough for my family and friends. I start my own veggies from heirloom seeds that breed true every year... not hybrids or GMO crap that come out of the ground and next year will produce alien looking plants and veggies that do not even resemble the species you are trying to get . My take is I do not need to fill my body with crap and poison it with pesticides that are claimed to be safe and then have effects on your body show up years later with a quality of life that will not make you very happy.
Then... they will be the usual whiners.... THEY should have told us.... no.. THEY do not give a crap they want profit above all else and to hell with the people ingesting the crap they are foisting off on a population of people with steadily decreasing intelligence.

+1 (except that I'm too lazy to actually garden myself, but yes to the message)

[brenthutch 384]

from a pro organic website


"The health benefits of organic food are more based on perception than real facts. However, the sweeping public opinion that organic food is healthier than conventional food is quite strong, and is the main reason for about 30% of growth in the organic food industry over the past 5-6 years. Much of this inflated support of organic food as a healthier alternative comes from environmental groups who don’t want pesticides and fertilizers to do any more damage to the environment, so promoting organic foods, which don’t use those types of chemicals, seems like a good way to get the results they want. The producers of organic food are also very strong contributors to the idea that organic food is superior to other types.

Organic Facts is a strong proponent of organic food; however, this website also believes in putting across the most accurate facts to its visitors. This article will explain which aspects of organic food are actually beneficial for your health, and which ones have been misrepresented in recent years.

organicfood5First of all, there is a small amount of scientific evidence to show that organic food is better in quality than conventional food. Scientific research conducted thus far on various organic food items has not been able to give strong evidence about the superiority of organic food over non-organic food.

As a result, even the FDA and the USDA clearly mention that non-organic food is as healthy as organic food."

[Amazon 7]

brenthutch

from a pro organic website


"The health benefits of organic food are more based on perception than real facts. However, the sweeping public opinion that organic food is healthier than conventional food is quite strong, and is the main reason for about 30% of growth in the organic food industry over the past 5-6 years. Much of this inflated support of organic food as a healthier alternative comes from environmental groups who don’t want pesticides and fertilizers to do any more damage to the environment, so promoting organic foods, which don’t use those types of chemicals, seems like a good way to get the results they want. The producers of organic food are also very strong contributors to the idea that organic food is superior to other types.

Organic Facts is a strong proponent of organic food; however, this website also believes in putting across the most accurate facts to its visitors. This article will explain which aspects of organic food are actually beneficial for your health, and which ones have been misrepresented in recent years.

organicfood5First of all, there is a small amount of scientific evidence to show that organic food is better in quality than conventional food. Scientific research conducted thus far on various organic food items has not been able to give strong evidence about the superiority of organic food over non-organic food.

As a result, even the FDA and the USDA clearly mention that non-organic food is as healthy as organic food."

You go right on ahead and be part of the grand experiment... but I will stick with food that has been consumed by our species the way it was grown and prepared by humans for thousands of years.... I would think conservatives would be more willing to eat as their ancestors ate... conserving something for once other than religious fallacies. Ever heard of Kosher???? There are very good reasons for sticking to some rules for how food is grown and processed.

[brenthutch 384]

" Ever heard of Kosher???? "

Yes, I season my bacon cheeseburger with Kosher salt.

[Amazon 7]

brenthutch

" Ever heard of Kosher???? "

Yes, I season my bacon cheeseburger with Kosher salt.

Good choice

[that_guy 0]

organic farming is not typically touted as some sort of solution to greenhouse gas emissions. It's about not using synthetic conventional pesticides, fertilizers and genetic treatments. The goal is to produce a healthier food product and at the same time create a sustainable environment in the soil to be able to continue using the land for decades instead of the massive conventional monocropping ventures that leach every bit of nutrient from the soil while at the same time adding in copius amounts of pesticides and fertilizers that accumulate in the soils.

not sure why the study would only correlate organic farming to greenhouse gas emission when that is not the goal of organic farming.

[Amazon 7]

that_guy

organic farming is not typically touted as some sort of solution to greenhouse gas emissions. It's about not using synthetic conventional pesticides, fertilizers and genetic treatments. The goal is to produce a healthier food product and at the same time create a sustainable environment in the soil to be able to continue using the land for decades instead of the massive conventional monocropping ventures that leach every bit of nutrient from the soil while at the same time adding in copious amounts of pesticides and fertilizers that accumulate in the soils.

not sure why the study would only correlate organic farming to greenhouse gas emission when that is not the goal of organic farming.

^^^^^^ This


I actually have worms in my soil... and in the big pots in which I grow tomatoes... peppers.... strawberries.. among others and lady bugs that eat the aphids brave enough to show up on my veggies and apple, pear, peach and cherry trees. I worry about bees but I do plant comfrey ( a natural fertilizer) to draw them to my garden and greenhouse. I make sure they are showing up to pollinate or I start transferring pollen with a small paintbrush as in early spring... when its still cold... This is why I already have red ripe tomato's that I started from seed in late January and had flowers in March and huge sweet juicy strawberries and about 4 gallons of blueberries so far

[that_guy 0]

Amazon

^^^^^^ This


I actually have worms in my soil... and in the big pots in which I grow tomatoes... peppers.... strawberries.. among others and lady bugs that eat the aphids brave enough to show up on my veggies and apple, pear, peach and cherry trees. I worry about bees but I do plant comfrey ( a natural fertilizer) to draw them to my garden and greenhouse. I make sure they are showing up to pollinate or I start transferring pollen with a small paintbrush as in early spring... when its still cold... This is why I already have red ripe tomato's that I started from seed in late January and had flowers in March and huge sweet juicy strawberries and about 4 gallons of blueberries so far

Awesome. I studied sustainable agriculture for 2.5 years and i am a pretty intensive gardener and beekeeper. I could argue organic vs conventional farming methods for days.

There are good arguements for both. Without modernization of farming we would not be able to feed the exponentially growing population but in my opinion that's not a good enough reason to throw out logic and use products like roundup on massive scales and to create such a large number of GMO crops. I won't say all GMO are bad but there are plenty that are.

[Amazon 7]

that_guy

***
^^^^^^ This


I actually have worms in my soil... and in the big pots in which I grow tomatoes... peppers.... strawberries.. among others and lady bugs that eat the aphids brave enough to show up on my veggies and apple, pear, peach and cherry trees. I worry about bees but I do plant comfrey ( a natural fertilizer) to draw them to my garden and greenhouse. I make sure they are showing up to pollinate or I start transferring pollen with a small paintbrush as in early spring... when its still cold... This is why I already have red ripe tomato's that I started from seed in late January and had flowers in March and huge sweet juicy strawberries and about 4 gallons of blueberries so far

Awesome. I studied sustainable agriculture for 2.5 years and i am a pretty intensive gardener and beekeeper. I could argue organic vs conventional farming methods for days.

There are good arguements for both. Without modernization of farming we would not be able to feed the exponentially growing population but in my opinion that's not a good enough reason to throw out logic and use products like roundup on massive scales and to create such a arge number of GMO crops. I won't say all GMO are bad but there are plenty that are.

I think the associated nictinoid usage will negate a lot of the food production increases going forward with devastating results on our species. My grandfather kept bees... I do not... too much work... and I have not seen honeybees in any real numbers on my plants for a couple years.... but the bumble bees are still going strong for now... as well as some smaller species

[brenthutch 384]

I personally use compost in my flower beds and organic fertilizer on my lawn. I like being able to stick a shovel in the ground and get a days worth of fishing worms in one scoop. The OP was about the carbon footprint aspects of organic farming.

[billvon 2,400]

Quote

Julius McGee, a sociologist at the Univeristy of Oregon who conducted the research, said: 'My analysis finds that the rise of certified organic production in the United States is not correlated with declines in greenhouse gas emissions derived specifically from agricultural production . . . So far we don't see any mitigating effect on greenhouse gasses.

Right. Organic farming makes up 1% of the farming in the US. Farming, in turn, is directly responsible for about 9% of our overall greenhouse gas production. 2/3 of that is methane from manure, methane from animals and NOx releases from fertilizer application; no one has ever claimed that will change with organic farming. The remaining 1/3 is CO2 production from chemical fertilizer production, pesticide production, farm vehicle exhaust etc.

So if we farmed everything organically - AND swapped out all the farm vehicles for ones that don't burn fossil fuels, which isn't ordinarily a part of organic farming - we might see a 3% reduction, everything else being equal. As it is now (1% organic farming) we might see a .03% reduction. And given how fast CO2 levels are rising from all other sources (we are now increasing by .5% a year) that won't even be visible.

So to the claim "we haven't seen any reduction in greenhouse gases from organic farming?" Well, duh. You wouldn't see it unless we held all other sources of emissions perfectly steady, which we of course are not doing.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/sns-green-certified-organic-farms-story.html

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources/agriculture.html

[that_guy 0]

Amazon

I think the associated nictinoid usage will negate a lot of the food production increases going forward with devastating results on our species. My grandfather kept bees... I do not... too much work... and I have not seen honeybees in any real numbers on my plants for a couple years.... but the bumble bees are still going strong for now... as well as some smaller species

I would challenge you to take a full look at backyard beekeeping. I have 1 large hive and will be splitting in later this year into two. Beekeeping takes very little of my time. I typically leave them alone for about a month or so depending on the season. I will be checking them this weekend but the last time i opened the hive was a month ago. Only takes about 15 minutes to open them up and inspect. I love beekeeping. It has made the biggest difference in my gardens overall production. My fruit and citrus trees are insane and all my tomato, squash and pepper plants are basically producing so much i just give away fresh prodcue to my friends and neighbors.

If you or anyone reading this wants info on getting started beekeeping i would be happy to help guide.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Organic farming is about reducing the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers, not about reducing CO2 emissions. It's no surprise that "that the rise of certified organic production in the United States is not correlated with declines in greenhouse gas emissions ", as organic production has nothing to do with greenhouse gasses. One might as well lament that the rise of organic farming has not reduced the number of people needing glasses.

Do you and rushmc get together and discuss lame strategies to attack anything you perceive to be "environmentalism", or do you just listen to the same talk radio?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Anvilbrother 0]

that_guy

***
I think the associated nictinoid usage will negate a lot of the food production increases going forward with devastating results on our species. My grandfather kept bees... I do not... too much work... and I have not seen honeybees in any real numbers on my plants for a couple years.... but the bumble bees are still going strong for now... as well as some smaller species

I would challenge you to take a full look at backyard beekeeping. I have 1 large hive and will be splitting in later this year into two. Beekeeping takes very little of my time. I typically leave them alone for about a month or so depending on the season. I will be checking them this weekend but the last time i opened the hive was a month ago. Only takes about 15 minutes to open them up and inspect. I love beekeeping. It has made the biggest difference in my gardens overall production. My fruit and citrus trees are insane and all my tomato, squash and pepper plants are basically producing so much i just give away fresh prodcue to my friends and neighbors.

If you or anyone reading this wants info on getting started beekeeping i would be happy to help guide.

How many times have you been stung?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

******
I think the associated nictinoid usage will negate a lot of the food production increases going forward with devastating results on our species. My grandfather kept bees... I do not... too much work... and I have not seen honeybees in any real numbers on my plants for a couple years.... but the bumble bees are still going strong for now... as well as some smaller species

I would challenge you to take a full look at backyard beekeeping. I have 1 large hive and will be splitting in later this year into two. Beekeeping takes very little of my time. I typically leave them alone for about a month or so depending on the season. I will be checking them this weekend but the last time i opened the hive was a month ago. Only takes about 15 minutes to open them up and inspect. I love beekeeping. It has made the biggest difference in my gardens overall production. My fruit and citrus trees are insane and all my tomato, squash and pepper plants are basically producing so much i just give away fresh prodcue to my friends and neighbors.

If you or anyone reading this wants info on getting started beekeeping i would be happy to help guide.

How many times have you been stung?

I used to sit betwixt Gramps hives and pick off the drones.... useless things.. only need one per hive the rest are just a drain on the hive's resources. Never got stung... I guess the "girls" knew I was making life better for them... now when we would break into the hive for the honey... we broke out the full suit with head gear for me.... and gramps with just pith helmet and head net...and the smoker thing would never suffer more than a couple stings.

[champu 1]

Is it worth noting that glyphosate, malathion, diazinon, parathion, and isobutylidenediurea are all organic compounds?

No? Okay, I'll be on my way.

[that_guy 0]

Anvilbrother

How many times have you been stung?

once in 2 years. Only because i dropped my hive tool down into the hive accidentally and when i reached in to grab it i got wopped on the hand since i dont wear gloves.

To the other fella, yes those are organic compounds allright. So is uranium, plutonium, arsinic, lead, etc etc. So i guess since uranium is technically an organic it's cool to use on my tomatoes right?

Organic agriculture does not imply that all Organic compounds are fair game or safe, it is specifically referring to the style of agriculture.

[billvon 2,400]

>Is it worth noting that glyphosate, malathion, diazinon, parathion, and
>isobutylidenediurea are all organic compounds?

True. So is Sarin.

[that_guy 0]

btw glyphosate is actually a synthetic analogue of a naturally occuring amino acid. synthesized, altered and sold by monsanto.

[champu 1]

that_guy

To the other fella, yes those are organic compounds allright. So is uranium, plutonium, arsinic, lead, etc etc.

Not by themselves they're not.

Quote

Organic agriculture does not imply that all Organic compounds are fair game or safe, it is specifically referring to the style of agriculture.

It doesn't specifically mean anything, that was my point.