turtlespeed 212 #51 June 9, 2015 skycop Quote My google-fu reflects that Philly established its SWAT team around 1964. (In fact, Philly's SWAT team may have been the first in the nation.) The MOVE bombing & burn-down was in 1985. Some Major cities had SWAT Teams that early, LAPD was one of the first. However tactics and training were still being developed. Watch Hill Street Blues and look at Howard the SWAT commander, he is an example (not a real one, but the stereotype) of SWAT of the era. I doubt the MOVE situation was SWAT driven, if so then I'm sure there was a change in leadership. LAPD is the father of the modern SWAT Team, along with training and tactics. Pre-Sept. 11 LAPD did extensive training with the military for MOUT scenarios. With all the recent real world MOUT missions there is a lot less networking. To use your term, "get off my lawn" with the SWAT stuff, I started my tactical career in 1989. SWAT tactics have changed since then as well, much less isolate and contain, Columbine changed that. With that said, it's my understanding they gave this guy 20 hrs. That is a LONG time for an armed stand-off. Everything in a several block area essentially stops, that is extremely disruptive to a community. It was property damage, no hostages or bad guys were hurt. But in the current internet/media driven police bashing environment, people are now saying property damage is too much. This was an armed gunman who took hostages, if they'd have done this for a raid, then I'd agree. 9 years earlier they had a prime time show about SWAT. It was even called SWAT. WHO'd have thunk it?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #52 June 9, 2015 skycop Quote and it was much harder for bad guys to get assault weapons. You know that isn't true, right? I knew that would ruffle some feathers............ But I stand by what I said, they were harder to find and seldom used. I bought a Norinco "Farmers Friend" SKS in 1990. He stated 1965, from then to the mid-80's there was not the proliferation there is now. The mid-80's saw an increase in tactical teams and tactical training. Partly as a response to an increased weapons capability of our adversaries. Bad guys in the 30's were using Tommy-guns and BAR's. So was law enforcement, but again, those were the "good old days"............... I never said I was against it did I? That would be an assumption on your part. I never said you said you were against them You don't seem to be against legal civilian gun ownership. Either stated or implied. It may be different where you were/are. But around here, and in the "Gun Press", military style semi-autos were very big in the 80s. They just didn't get the press they do today. The Stockton shooting by Patrick Purdy brought them to the top of the headlines. The 89 Import restrictions and California bans were direct results of that. Until then, the general public had little idea what was legal to own. And of course, the anti-gun crowd used that ignorance to ban semi auto rifles under the guise of "Banning Machine Guns.""There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #53 June 9, 2015 I'm a gun enthusiast as well, I was speaking in a broader sense, as it relates to threats faced. It's very different where I live, open carry for the most part is no big deal. In the country it's very common, you can also carry a loaded weapon in your glove box, as long as it has an enclosure with a latch. It's always been that way. The CCDW process is fairly easy and relatively hassle free. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swisschris62 0 #54 June 10, 2015 Wait a minute...I thought the kid wasn't a kid. "Just like the kid outside the store like everyone else here I was totally against what the cop had done. New developments and information comes in that the headphones were not relevant, the kid knew exactly what was being said to him, and purposly said "Na fool". Also found was that he was depressed and suicidal. Guess once you make a post here your locked into that statement and can't change or add to it with new information. Sounds like a stupid ass idea to me. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #55 June 10, 2015 It's a mockery of your term. Sorry if I diddnt underline, highlight, bold, and quote it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #56 June 10, 2015 Never give up! Never give in! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #58 June 10, 2015 cvfd1399What? I believe he's comparing you to Churchill. Yes. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #59 June 10, 2015 Andy9o8***What? I believe he's comparing you to Churchill. Yes. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. There is some validity to that statement, if not highly rooted in moral logic.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #60 June 11, 2015 QuoteNever give up! Never give in! Never give up, never surrender! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #61 June 11, 2015 billvonQuoteNever give up! Never give in! Never give up, never surrender! WOLVERINES!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #62 June 11, 2015 billvonQuoteNever give up! Never give in! Never give up, never surrender! Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
