Here we go again..

[skycop 0]

Not saying he does.
The cartoon says "for African Americans"

That insinuates the cops are going around blasting African Americans for no reason as a matter of routine, that simply isn't true. When there have been questionable uses of lethal force, the reaction was swift and serious, as it should be.

There was an incident recently where a guy was shot for absolutely no reason while reaching for his wallet. That officer was criminally charged, and is awaiting trial.

The last incident a guy ran and was shot, that officer is currently in jail with no bond.

Bill's post was simply inflammatory and served no real purpose. Normally his posts are quite articulate and full of wit.

There was no outrage when African Americans killed African American officers recently, there were two of them.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Boomerdog 0]

I'd be careful. One of the mysteries of this forum is that ya never know who you're really talking to whether or not they write with one hand tied behind their back 'cause there's just a lot stuff that can't be said. Let's put it this way, all is never what it seems.

[BIGUN 1,053]

You're reading way too much into Billvon's cartoon.

IMO - It probably shows the general racism among cops and you take offense to that.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[billvon 2,400]

>That insinuates the cops are going around blasting African Americans for no reason
>as a matter of routine, that simply isn't true.

As several incidents have sadly demonstrated, that sometimes _is_ true. African-Americans are indeed far more likely to be killed by cops than whites are. In fact, if you are a black male African-American between the ages of 20-24, you are over five times more likely to be killed by a cop than an average American. Ages 15-19 are even worse.
Overall, blacks in general are almost three times as likely to be killed by police than whites.

In fact, you posted two such examples of the problem alluded to in the cartoon.

Fortunately, such incidents are greatly in the minority. Unfortunately, they continue to occur.

[ryoder 1,384]

Ten deputies placed on leave: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a1f8346133234b80882f0cd1b4e3ff25/video-shows-california-deputies-beating-man-fleeing-horse

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BIGUN 1,053]

ryoder

Ten deputies placed on leave: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a1f8346133234b80882f0cd1b4e3ff25/video-shows-california-deputies-beating-man-fleeing-horse

Well, at least until the justice department gets involved.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

African-Americans are indeed far more likely to be killed by cops than whites are. In fact, if you are a black male African-American between the ages of 20-24, you are over five times more likely to be killed by a cop than an average American. Ages 15-19 are even worse.
Overall, blacks in general are almost three times as likely to be killed by police than whites.

Blacks in that age range are the ones committing the crime and being in contact more with the police than any other race. DUH they stand more of a chance than anyone else just by being there more often committing violent crimes.

Quote

The "National Youth Gang Survey Analysis" (2011) state that of gang members, 46% are Hispanic/Latino, 35% are African-American/black, 11.5% are white, and 7% are other race/ethnicity.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2008 black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 2,400]

>Blacks in that age range are the ones committing the crime . . . .

Well, I guess that's one justification for claiming the cartoon is accurate.

[Amazon 7]

sfzombie13

not true. the warrior mentality is to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves...pawo. the thug mentality is to shoot it out or use violence as a means to an end. a true warrior tries at all costs to avoid violence.

It seems that is lost on many in LEO who seek out confrontation... YOU WILL COMPLY OR YOU WILL DIE.

Who is the thug when LEO seek to home invade peoples homes based on "evidence" or hearsay from drug thugs....

[Anvilbrother 0]

I did not even see your cartoon bill I got that notion from the FACTS!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[skycop 0]

This where I stop, I'm not touching the racial issue, it is the third rail of anything LE.
Here is where I keep my opinion to myself, because once the race card is thrown any opposing opinion is subject to an "ist" claim.

I think these explain things very well.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292


http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Quote

I'd be careful. One of the mysteries of this forum is that ya never know who you're really talking to whether or not they write with one hand tied behind their back 'cause there's just a lot stuff that can't be said. Let's put it this way, all is never what it seems.

I'm just going by what you said, and the previous posts.

If they aren't true, so what, we are both just having a discussion. In the end we probably agree on more than we don't................

I don't take myself that serious.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>That insinuates the cops are going around blasting African Americans for no reason
>as a matter of routine, that simply isn't true.

As several incidents have sadly demonstrated, that sometimes _is_ true. African-Americans are indeed far more likely to be killed by cops than whites are. In fact, if you are a black male African-American between the ages of 20-24, you are over five times more likely to be killed by a cop than an average American. Ages 15-19 are even worse.
Overall, blacks in general are almost three times as likely to be killed by police than whites.

Well, ya...if a large group of people lived in a small area known to have a high population of bears, you could probably expect to see more bear attacks on that particular group of people.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[billvon 2,400]

>Here is where I keep my opinion to myself, because once the race card is thrown any
>opposing opinion is subject to an "ist" claim.

Then why did you throw the race card?

[ShotterMG 0]

skycop

This where I stop, I'm not touching the racial issue, it is the third rail of anything LE.
Here is where I keep my opinion to myself, because once the race card is thrown any opposing opinion is subject to an "ist" claim.

I think these explain things very well.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292[/url

[url]http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292

Every time someone talks about race and law enforcement people like you love to say "you're playing the race card" and refuse to talk about it. So lets be clear what you're saying; are you saying there is never a racial component? That race is never an issue? That despite hundreds of years of institutional racism in this country law enforcement is now completely color blind? Of course you may disagree about the scope of the problem but can anyone really say its not a problem at al? You could talk to any single one of the millions of law abiding black people in this country and they will tel you their own stories of being harassed by police. Are they all lying? Is it truly your belief there is no problem whatsoever in that area and nobody should be allowed to talk about it? If so, that would be akin to denying the Holocaust. And because a police officer like yourself believes this, it's definitive proof we still have q major problem.

[Amazon 7]

ShotterMG

***This where I stop, I'm not touching the racial issue, it is the third rail of anything LE.
Here is where I keep my opinion to myself, because once the race card is thrown any opposing opinion is subject to an "ist" claim.

I think these explain things very well.

http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292[/url

[url]http://www.cityofmadison.com/police/chief/blog/?Id=6292

Every time someone talks about race and law enforcement people like you love to say "you're playing the race card" and refuse to talk about it. So lets be clear what you're saying; are you saying there is never a racial component? That race is never an issue? That despite hundreds of years of institutional racism in this country law enforcement is now completely color blind? Of course you may disagree about the scope of the problem but can anyone really say its not a problem at al? You could talk to any single one of the millions of law abiding black people in this country and they will tel you their own stories of being harassed by police. Are they all lying? Is it truly your belief there is no problem whatsoever in that area and nobody should be allowed to talk about it? If so, that would be akin to denying the Holocaust. And because a police officer like yourself believes this, it's definitive proof we still have q major problem.


I think part of the problem is this mentality....as found on FAUX NEWS.

Fox host: Minority communities need to be trained to be ‘more sensitive to the police'

So it runs deeper than just the police.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Every time someone talks about race and law enforcement people like you love to say "you're playing the race card" and refuse to talk about it. So lets be clear what you're saying; are you saying there is never a racial component? That race is never an issue? That despite hundreds of years of institutional racism in this country law enforcement is now completely color blind? Of course you may disagree about the scope of the problem but can anyone really say its not a problem at al? You could talk to any single one of the millions of law abiding black people in this country and they will tel you their own stories of being harassed by police. Are they all lying? Is it truly your belief there is no problem whatsoever in that area and nobody should be allowed to talk about it? If so, that would be akin to denying the Holocaust. And because a police officer like yourself believes this, it's definitive proof we still have q major problem.

Read the links, they are interesting and as close to my opinion as I could find.
They were written by a police chief who is rather progressive in a law enforcement perspective. He is at the same point in his career as I am, so he's not afraid to speak his mind.
The first link is in response to "protestors" about Ferguson, the second is after a police shooting.

The tone of your post is the exact reason why race is so divisive when having a conversation. Since you mentioned my opinions and the holocaust in the same sentence, I doubt we could ever have a substantive discussion on this issue.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 1,623]

skycop

This where I stop, I'm not touching the racial issue, it is the third rail of anything LE.
Here is where I keep my opinion to myself, because once the race card is thrown any opposing opinion is subject to an "ist" claim.

The reason people can "throw the race card" is that there IS a race card to throw.

If you think the Civil Rights Act eliminated the negative effects of hundreds of years of institutionalized racism in a few decades, you are seriously deluding yourself.

There are still people alive who had to sit in the back of the bus, use separate water fountains, and who remember lynchings.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ShotterMG 0]

Since you mentioned my opinions and the holocaust in the same sentence, I doubt we could ever have a substantive discussion on this issue.


Read carefully. I mentioned the Holocaust only in relation to someone who believes there is "no problem whatsoever". Are you saying that is your belief?
If so, that is an extreme level of denial. IMO. which was my point. No offense meant.

[jclalor 12]

I think the first real issue that needs to be addressed, is the inability of cops to report crimes committed by their fellow cops. I work in healthcare, if I witness abuse and fail to report it, I committ a crime.

Why aren't cops held to the same standard?

Until cops understand that they don't have impunity from their fellow cops, nothing will change.

[skycop 0]

Quote

"no problem whatsoever". Are you saying that is your belief?

Really?

Read the first link, it articulates my thoughts better than I can.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Coreeece 2]

ShotterMG

Every time someone talks about race and law enforcement people like you love to say "you're playing the race card" and refuse to talk about it.

Well, ya...you already said his denial of the holocaust proves that there is still a serious problem, lol...

What's there to talk about?

ShotterMG

So lets be clear what you're saying; are you saying there is never a racial component?
That race is never an issue? That despite hundreds of years of institutional racism in this country law enforcement is now completely color blind? Of course you may disagree about the scope of the problem

Yes, that's the issue. People disagree on the scope of the problem...

ShotterMG

You could talk to any single one of the millions of law abiding black people in this country and they will tel you their own stories of being harassed by police. Are they all lying?

There are millions of law abiding white people in this country that will tell you their own stories of being harassed by police. Are they all lying?

ShotterMG

Is it truly your belief there is no problem whatsoever in that area and nobody should be allowed to talk about it? If so, that would be akin to denying the Holocaust. And because a police officer like yourself believes this, it's definitive proof we still have q major problem.

I think I touched on this earlier in my reply...suffice it to say, QED.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

If you think the Civil Rights Act eliminated the negative effects of hundreds of years of institutionalized racism in a few decades, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Well, the flip side to that is deluding yourself into thinking that this country hasn't made great strides with regard to eliminating racism, and that cops simply inhabit an institutionalized form of modern-day lynching.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 1,623]

Coreeece

***If you think the Civil Rights Act eliminated the negative effects of hundreds of years of institutionalized racism in a few decades, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Well, the flip side to that is deluding yourself into thinking that this country hasn't made great strides with regard to eliminating racism, and that cops simply inhabit an institutionalized form of modern-day lynching.

Getting from the 1 yard line to the 20 yard line is "making great strides". It's still a long way to the 50 yard line.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[winsor 186]

kallend

******If you think the Civil Rights Act eliminated the negative effects of hundreds of years of institutionalized racism in a few decades, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Well, the flip side to that is deluding yourself into thinking that this country hasn't made great strides with regard to eliminating racism, and that cops simply inhabit an institutionalized form of modern-day lynching.

Getting from the 1 yard line to the 20 yard line is "making great strides". It's still a long way to the 50 yard line.

A number of points.

So long as there is a livelihood to be made in professional racism (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Spike Lee et al. have made a good buck finding racism, real or imagined, under every rock), it will be perceived as an issue, regardless of the merits. Go figure.

So long as racial identity is a primary concern in any ethnic group, that group will see themselves as being defined by their racial identity. Go figure.

So long as people work hard at living stereotypes ("when you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your dying day..."), the image of said stereotype will persist. Go figure.

I fancied myself as being singularly egalitarian until it was pointed out that I was a "racist honky motherfucker." Who knew?

I try to be as indifferent to racial issues as physically possible. However, when people insist that I take race into consideration, I feel no particular compunction to take their stance on the issue. If they don't like it, xin loi.


BSBD,

Winsor