At what point would you be ok with stepping in and finishing this?

[jakee 1,280]

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So you sit quietly while untold numbers of people are beheaded and burned alive so the "first" people can go in and then you can come in and "rescue" them.

Hang on a minute, untold? According to what you told us in the OP its somewhere around 115. Ok it's gruesome and evil, but more people get killed in spoon related accidents.

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Why wait to salvage your reputation as the ones that did not start the fight, but helped end it??

Because it matters as to what happens next and what sort of backlash you will face. And if you really do want to help people and save lives you absolutely have to think about it.

OTOH, if you just want to kill some bad guys and feel good about having done something, then you can ignore it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 256]

jakee

more people get killed in spoon related accidents.

Citation please - you can't make sweeping statements like this without proof!!!

(just because )

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Anvilbrother 0]

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Hang on a minute, untold? According to what you told us in the OP its somewhere around 115. Ok it's gruesome and evil, but more people get killed in spoon related accidents.

In the op talked about a couple hundred, and I posted this link, but I will show you again.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htm
In 2014 I roughly calculated a couple thousand murders, the total since 9/11 is over 25,000. Sure it might not the huge numbers that your saying spoon related accidents are, but this is over 25,000 murders. And the whole point of this is when do you say when? 25,000 murders, 250,000 murders, 2.5 million murders.

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Because it matters as to what happens next and what sort of backlash you will face. And if you really do want to help people and save lives you absolutely have to think about it. OTOH, if you just want to kill some bad guys and feel good about having done something, then you can ignore it.

Hitler opened the Dachau concentration camp in March 1933, although it did not hold many jews at that time after the Nuremberg race laws were institutionalized in 1935 many jews were in those camps. It wasn't until 1939 that Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa declare war on Germany. Soon after we all know what happened. I say that to mention that it did not start with a bang, but slowly built up over time and no one did anything about it until it was out of control, and ended up in a world war.

I simply restate the question. When is enough, enough, and at what point do we try to come up with a lasting solution and enact that plan no matter the cost to eliminate this virus from the earth.

Our previous actions in the area did nothing, and the one I fear we are about to enter in will also do nothing. It is not the response that you need to fix the region IMO. I say quit throwing a couple gallons of water on a house fire for it to only flare back up again. Either put it out or let it burn. If you chose to let it burn hopefully it does not spread and burn down the entire town(Europe).

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[catfishhunter 1]

I didn't read more then a couple of reply's but my answer to all of this has been the same as it was when I was a kid and they took the hostages in Iran. Turn the place into a glass fucking parking lot and be done with it. Shouldn't take more then one or two of them for the rest to forever stop the nonsense.

Our troubles started when no one feared the US. We let it happen in Korea and Vietnam and it continued right up tell today. We do not have the stomach to do what's necessary. You must completely eliminate your opponents will to fight, and under that guideline they have beat us and they know it.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[jakee 1,280]

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n the op talked about a couple hundred, and I posted this link, but I will show you again.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htm
In 2014 I roughly calculated a couple thousand murders, the total since 9/11 is over 25,000. Sure it might not the huge numbers that your saying spoon related accidents are, but this is over 25,000 murders. And the whole point of this is when do you say when? 25,000 murders, 250,000 murders, 2.5 million murders.

Ahh, I see. Earlier you were talking very specifically about beheadings, which was what I replied to. I was wondering why you were fixating on that.

Anyway, current estimate of civilian deaths from violence in Iraq since 2003 is 150,000. When do you say enough?

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I simply restate the question. When is enough, enough, and at what point do we try to come up with a lasting solution and enact that plan no matter the cost to eliminate this virus from the earth.

You mean, when do we say "too many people are being killed and we must stop it, no matter how many people are killed as a result"? Well, never. Any hope for the success of such a plan is mere wishful thinking - it's deeply flawed on both moral and practical grounds.

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Hitler opened the Dachau concentration camp in March 1933, although it did not hold many jews at that time after the Nuremberg race laws were institutionalized in 1935 many jews were in those camps. It wasn't until 1939 that Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa declare war on Germany.

And the two events are completely unrelated. No-one declared war on Germany because of the concentration camps.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,280]

Ah yes, the latest 2 cents from the local would be genocidal maniac

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,476]

>Turn the place into a glass fucking parking lot and be done with it.

It is a mistake, IMO, to make decisions based on the idea that other people will do what you want as long as you kill enough of their family and friends. It wouldn't work for me, and I suspect it wouldn't work for you.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Im not sure about nukes, or killing everyone is the answer, but I will say baring outside assistance(looking at you Russia) the middle east does not stand a chance against our modern military when it is unleashed and free to roam about the country at will.

I believe that the guarded ROE, and super PC war kills more soldiers in the middle east than a traditional war would. Especially if we could engage at will with modern technology eliminating the need for as many boots. Let bombs, A10's and tanks do the major work.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

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It is a mistake, IMO, to make decisions based on the idea that other people will do what you want as long as you kill enough of their family and friends. It wouldn't work for me, and I suspect it wouldn't work for you.

Well it worked like a charm on Japan.....

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[catfishhunter 1]

Anvilbrother

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It is a mistake, IMO, to make decisions based on the idea that other people will do what you want as long as you kill enough of their family and friends. It wouldn't work for me, and I suspect it wouldn't work for you.

Well it worked like a charm on Japan.....

+1

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[catfishhunter 1]

jakee

Ah yes, the latest 2 cents from the local would be genocidal maniac

Hmmm so the US was wrong to drop the bombs on japan?

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

You mean, when do we say "too many people are being killed and we must stop it, no matter how many people are killed as a result"? Well, never. Any hope for the success of such a plan is mere wishful thinking - it's deeply flawed on both moral and practical grounds.

I understand your saying of if they are only killing 25,000 a year why try to end it with 500,000 military and civilian deaths, but we are implying that it will get worse, spread, and eventually be in your back yard if we do not do something, and that is their mission statement, and if you look a map of their progression its absolutely true so far. Gotta look at the future, as well as the present. It still fucking sucks that people are still shrugging off this type of murders like meh, its not that many.

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And the two events are completely unrelated. No-one declared war on Germany because of the concentration camps.

Yea your right about the camps, but missing the point which is why I bring up the question why didn't they see the problem developing early before it got to a world war level and dealt with it. Which is the question I am bringing up here about the ISIS types. When is enough, enough. Will our children look back and go WTF why did you not take care of this earlier before it eventually became WW3?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jakee 1,280]

catfishhunter

***Ah yes, the latest 2 cents from the local would be genocidal maniac

Hmmm so the US was wrong to drop the bombs on japan?

That's a very complicated question. But if you don't understand that fighting a nation state vs fighting disparate groups of cross border militants are very different things then you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of understanding the answer.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,280]

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I understand your saying of if they are only killing 25,000 a year why try to end it with 500,000 military and civilian deaths, but we are implying that it will get worse, spread, and eventually be in your back yard if we do not do something, and that is their mission statement, and if you look a map of their progression its absolutely true so far.

Excuse me while I don't quake in my boots. So they've been able to spread through the already massively destabilised areas of the Middle East. Big whoop, that doesn't mean you can extrapolate that success to taking over real countries.

Hey, I just learned to play tennis. After two lessons I can serve and play a double handed backhand. If I keep improving at this rate I'll be beating Roger Federer by summer. Because that's how it works, apparently.

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Yea your right about the camps, but missing the point which is why I bring up the question why didn't they see the problem developing early before it got to a world war level and dealt with it.

Well first, no-one knew what was happening/going to happen at places like Belsen and Dachau. Second, people were still tired from the Great War. No one wanted another crippling, all consuming conflict.

Which brings us back to today - it's been 13 years of conflict, 12 years of occupation in Iraq - and it's worked out so damn well that you think we have to intervene in Iraq all over again to stop shit from getting worse than it was before we were there in the first place. Great success, huh?

Just a thought - if you get your new campaign and it lasts even half as long as the last one then you will be sending troops to fight in Iraq who weren't even born on 9/11. Who said something about a quagmire?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,178]

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glass fucking parking lot

I'm guessing people don't dare fight with your kids, or disagree with you, huh

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ryoder 1,412]

jakee

Which brings us back to today - it's been 13 years of conflict, 12 years of occupation in Iraq - and it's worked out so damn well that you think we have to intervene in Iraq all over again to stop shit from getting worse than it was before we were there in the first place. Great success, huh?

Or, to put it another way, here is a list of countries the US has meddled in over the last 15 years:
- Afghanistan
- Iraq
- Libya
- Pakistan
- Yemen

How many are peaceful, stable democracies now?
What is it they say about doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting a different result?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,476]

>Well it worked like a charm on Japan

I'm thinking the Marshall Plan had far more to do with that than any glass parking lots did.

How many of your friends and family would terrorists have to kill before you would stop hating them and wanting them dead?

[Stumpy 256]

Anvilbrother

Im not sure about nukes, or killing everyone is the answer, but I will say baring outside assistance(looking at you Russia) the middle east does not stand a chance against our modern military when it is unleashed and free to roam about the country at will.

I believe that the guarded ROE, and super PC war kills more soldiers in the middle east than a traditional war would. Especially if we could engage at will with modern technology eliminating the need for as many boots. Let bombs, A10's and tanks do the major work.

You are probably right, but you aren't going to war with "the middle east".
You are going to war with a diffuse, undefined minority. And the US have shown that when it comes to this sort of conflict, it doesn't generally end well. This is why I suspect this sort of conflict is essentially unwinnable in this fashion - if you let the bombs and tanks do their thing, then you end up killing a lot of innocent people and creating a resentment that leads to the next, escalated version of ISIS that comes along. In addition, you won't get all the combatants because they don't sit still in a nice Dr Evil base, waiting for you to attack it.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[grimmie 177]

The only way ISIS and the rest of of the Middle Eastern terror groups become defeated is when those surrounding nations have had enough and step in. As long as the US and it's western allies are involved, it will be a religious war.

The Middle East only becomes stable when the Middle East wants it stable. It will take a coalition of Arab/Muslim nations to defeat these clowns and keep the next group of wannabes from uprising. IMHO

[grue 1]

We've given enough weapons and training to Israel, Egypt, and Saudi for them to go solve the problem. We do not need to be involved.

Historically speaking, has any established nation in the last 200 years ever actually invaded an area, fought an enemy that doesn't fight conventionally, and won?

I know we haven't. The French haven't. The Russians haven't. The British may have, but I don't think so.

So, uh, why not learn from history?

cavete terrae.

[Bolas 5]

The only way the U.S. could truly end Middle East conflicts would be to destroy what those are fighting over: All holy/sacred places and relics from all the religions.

Hence the need for us to GTFO: no aid, assistance, supplies, training, etc to any of the Middle East until if/when they stabilize themselves. At the same time, no criticism by the U.S. Government of methods employed or governments deployed.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Erroll 53]

grue

We've given enough weapons and training to Israel, Egypt, and Saudi for them to go solve the problem. We do not need to be involved.

Historically speaking, has any established nation in the last 200 years ever actually invaded an area, fought an enemy that doesn't fight conventionally, and won?

I know we haven't. The French haven't. The Russians haven't. The British may have, but I don't think so.

So, uh, why not learn from history?

The British did indeed:

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The British, now under the leadership of Lord Kitchener, responded with a scorched earth policy of destroying Boer farms and moving civilians into concentration camps.

However, you are correct. Only the countries 'hosting' ISIS and on whose soil they operate can effectively eliminate them. A stable Middle East is in everyone's best interests and I do believe the West should assist, but it is not a 'war' than can be 'won'.

Incidentally, Anvilbrother, Pakistan is not in the Middle East and is not part of the region.

[Anvilbrother 0]

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Incidentally, Anvilbrother, Pakistan is not in the Middle East and is not part of the region.

It wasn't included because of its title or "region". It's included because of location and this.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Pakistan

Let's not forget how easily Osama bin laden was living there, the support network for him, and what they did to the doctor that helped us Id him.

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[kallend 1,683]

jakee

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Hitler opened the Dachau concentration camp in March 1933, although it did not hold many jews at that time after the Nuremberg race laws were institutionalized in 1935 many jews were in those camps. It wasn't until 1939 that Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa declare war on Germany.

And the two events are completely unrelated. No-one declared war on Germany because of the concentration camps.

And it was Hitler who declared war on the USA, Dec. 11, 1941

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[catfishhunter 1]

They sure as fuck don't go cutting their heads off..If we had dealt with Korea/ Vietnam the way we dealt with Japan and Germany. We wouldn't be in this situation. If we had dealt with Iran when they took our hostages we wouldn't be in this. If Reagan had finished Libya instead of just dropping a bomb outside Gadhafi's front door we wouldn't be in this. If Bush had just wiped Afghanistan off the face of the earth we wouldn't be dealing with this. You have to stop applying "western values" to the middle east. They do not believe as we do. Hell we do not even believe in our "values" anymore.

They actually BELIEVE in their religion and until you break that instead of reinforcing it this will continue. Their immans tell them we do not believe in anything. We are infidels and Allah wants them to die and take as many infidels with them. As far as they are concerned they are wining as we have lost the will to fight.

To show them Allah is not on their side we must send them and all those that teach that shit to visit their Allah and dso it in one fell swoop. The generations that are left can then be free to learn.

It isn't some irrational want for genocide but the cold hard truth. Unless we remove 2 generations this will get worse long before it gets better. It is coming. look at your history. They are programming a whole generation to bring about Allahs will. How they hell do you stop that? what are you going to do when all of the Immams call for the billions of them to rise up as Alalh is coming? WTF do you do then?

Read your history. This isn't make believe.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.