Finally, a real answer to deal with school shooting

[rushmc 18]

You cant make this stuff up!!!

Quote

W.F. Burns Middle School Principal Priscella Holley sent a letter home to parents asking them to arm their children with eight-ounce canned goods, which kids can chuck at attackers during an emergency. Holley explained that the cans can stun a shooter and give students a sense of empowerment. If the cans are never used, they will be donated to a local food pantry at the end of the school year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ala-middle-school-tells-kids-throw-cans-shooters-article-1.2075972[/url]
[url]

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnnyMarko 1]

God, I hope they just thought it was already April Fool's Day....

I....how can?....what??????

[rushmc 18]

JohnnyMarko

God, I hope they just thought it was already April Fool's Day....

I....how can?....what??????

LMFAO!!!

No one could have said it better!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[skycop 0]

It's a bit more complicated than that, I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

(and yes, I am an ALICE instructor)

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 0]

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I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

I did. Got something about being a waitress in a diner.

[ryoder 1,406]

They pull a gun, you pull a can of beans.
*That's* the *Chicago* way!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skycop 0]

That was Flo,
Alice was the Brady's maid, geesch............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Andy9o8 0]

skycop

That was Flo,
Alice was the Brady's maid, geesch............

Your pop culture-fu is weak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_%28TV_series%29

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1076&bih=780&q=alice+mel%27s+dincer&oq=alice+mel%27s+dincer&gs_l=img.3...1209.3900.0.4011.18.10.0.8.8.0.86.568.10.10.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.61.img..3.15.591.kwGPfXEPaYc#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=alice+mel%27s+diner&spell=1

If you wish to be a Jedi, young apprentice, learn to master The Force - or it will master you.

[ryoder 1,406]

skycop

That was Flo,
Alice was the Brady's maid, geesch............

Movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071115/

TV show: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073955/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[RMK 3]

The laughable part is living in a G8 nation yet the likelihood of armed gunmen rushing into a children's school class being a real concern.

This is generally reserved for people living in war-torn third world locales.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[masterrig 1]

Andy9o8

Quote

I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

I did. Got something about being a waitress in a diner.

You can get anything you want at Alice's...


Chuck

[turtlespeed 212]

Andy9o8

Quote

I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

I did. Got something about being a waitress in a diner.

Thats funny, all I turned up was something about being arrested for littering.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[BIGUN 1,098]

skycop

It's a bit more complicated than that, I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

(and yes, I am an ALICE instructor)

The A.L.I.C.E training has NO such employment of canned goods for middle schoolers to be chunking or to even get involved (empowerment comment) with intruders.

The school employees have a "duty to protect." Send the children running to hide and the teachers, administrators, clerks, janitors, campus police, etc. have the responsibility to take the necessary precautions to protect their students and to employ the distraction, tackle, chunk, create chaos, etc. techniques.

The first Principal that sends me an email saying that my daughter has to bring in a canned item to be chunked at an intruder by my kid is the day my kid gets pulled out of that school!!

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

skycop

It's a bit more complicated than that, I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

(and yes, I am an ALICE instructor)

I did

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

RMK

The laughable part is living in a G8 nation yet the likelihood of armed gunmen rushing into a children's school class being a real concern.

This is generally reserved for people living in war-torn third world locales.

How quickly you Limeys forget what was going on during the London Olympics. For a country ith nothing to worry about you sure took a lot of precautions.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skycop 0]

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Your pop culture-fu is weak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...lice_%28TV_series%29

https://www.google.com/...7s+diner&spell=1

If you wish to be a Jedi, young apprentice, learn to master The Force - or it will master you.

Why yes, yes it is............

I just remember Flo, she was MILFY in a skanky diner kinda way...........

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rehmwa 2]

Cripes - I bet they were so PROUD of this idea too.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skycop 0]

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The A.L.I.C.E training has NO such employment of canned goods for middle schoolers to be chunking or to even get involved (empowerment comment) with intruders.

The school employees have a "duty to protect." Send the children running to hide and the teachers, administrators, clerks, janitors, campus police, etc. have the responsibility to take the necessary precautions to protect their students and to employ the distraction, tackle, chunk, create chaos, etc. techniques.

The first Principal that sends me an email saying that my daughter has to bring in a canned item to be chunked at an intruder by my kid is the day my kid gets pulled out of that school!!

This school may have been trying (very badly) to encourage an active response to an active shooter scenario.
ALICE simply encourages the last ditch effort to fight back with ANYTHING available, as a last resort.

Current lock-down protocols are wholly inadequate and actually lock potential victims in. There are other programs such as "run, hide, fight" that teach the same basic active responses.

I'd check to see what your child's school response plans are, if they are just a lock-down, with no active response it needs to be addressed. If not ALICE then another active response protocol, there are several. I've found ALICE to be the most organized, concise, and easiest to teach.


http://www.alicetraining.com/

I took my training from the founder, he used to say "I used to get kicked out of places, now I get invited in".

ALICE was a huge departure from the school security paradigm, there are still some "experts" who say an active response is wrong. It's not, it takes the decision making away from a central location and give it to those actually involved.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Boomerdog 0]

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It's a bit more complicated than that, I suggest people google A.L.I.C.E training.

Care to fill us in on the details that created such complexities?

The conclusive way to test the efficacy of such a tactic is to have a no notice exercise where a perp with a toy cap gun and dressed up scary bad crashes through the classroom door of sixth graders. Maybe eight graders? Whatever.

The kids will of course get traumatized over the test, tell their parents and all hell's gonna break loose with the school and the school district.

Is it possible that a bunch of grade schoolers locked and loaded with food cans to throw at and gain some temporary advantage to egress? The armed perp already has the advantage of the initial shock effect of the engagement? Possible yes; probable no! And now this "tactic" of fighting back with cans of food is now out there for all (even the perps) to see.

The school principal will then direct all unused "weapons" to be donated to a food bank. if they're going to go through with this come hell or high water, perhaps they ought to buy a bunch of hard rubber hockey pucks to throw at the armed intruder.

Once again, a feel good overture that denies the reality of the magnitude of a very violent situation and for the reason cited above, training is not going to occur.

Kinda reminds me of one of Murphy's Laws of Combat: "Professional Soldiers are predictable but the world is full of amateurs."

[skycop 0]

http://www.alicetraining.com/

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Care to fill us in on the details that created such complexities?

They are many and varied.

A very quick overview

A-Alert
L-Lockdown
I-Inform
C-Counter
E-Evacuate

These steps are not sequential

Essentially it's get the word out of a threat plain and fast as possible, lockdown, determine where the threat is. When locking down, and the threat is near, barricade the door or other means of entry by any way possible. Informing means continuing to give as much information as possible about the threat.

If the threat is not in your area of the building EVACUATE as fast as possible, by any means possible. This is the preferred response, but not possible for some.

The counter portion is an absolute last resort, all other means have failed and a shooter has gained access to where you are. Obviously this isn't practical with smaller kids K-3 or special needs kids.
Would you rather have your kid fight back, or be shot cowering in a corner. You would be very surprised what happens when a group of students swarm an attacker, while throwing anything they can grab. It's sounds awful, but he may get one, but he's not going to get them all.

There is no perfect response to a chaotic situation, people are going to get hurt, an active response aims to reduce casualties.

Some districts train to the faculty and staff level, others train down to the student level. None of this is done without parental input.

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The conclusive way to test the efficacy of such a tactic is to have a no notice exercise where a perp with a toy cap gun and dressed up scary bad crashes through the classroom door of sixth graders. Maybe eight graders? Whatever.

In some school districts they do this very thing with a guy in a redman suit. There are videos online.

It didn't take long for several 6 year olds to figure out being in the building during a shooting was not a good thing. One kid grabbed several of his buddies and ran out to a neighboring house in Sandy Hook. It saved their lives.

ALICE training was brought up to me by a special education teacher who thought being locked in a building with a guy shooting, didn't make any sense to him. He wanted more options, that's what an active response gives you, options. I can show you pictures of grown college students sitting on the floor, in a room facing the wall, waiting to get shot at Virginia Tech. They were doing as they were trained.

It's not a feel good, knee jerk response, it's an evolution of tactics in response to a threat. Police tactics have changed dramatically since Columbine, and they continue to change, they had to. School response tactics did not change.

Here is the FBI report on active shooters, it includes preferred response options. ALICE is owned by a private company, so they can't recommend them by name. Greg Crane was the pioneer in this response, he changed the paradigm.


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cirg/active-shooter-and-mass-casualty-incidents

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Boomerdog 0]

Well I'll be, you've reduced a bit of my pessimism...not all of it. Whether the "paradigm" is changed; we'll see.

[skycop 0]

It hasn't changed, but it's shifting.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"